To be JUSTIFIED

[Justified]

1. Paul in galatians is talking about these believers falling from grace/Christ in Ephesians 2:8 if they go back under the law correct?

I don’t see anything in the context to suggest he was talking about that. He seems to be talking more about Gentiles being fellow heirs of the gospel.

So your problem is you think james is speaking of people who have no works because their not saved in the first place
Correct?

I want to make sure I understand you first then I will reply

Yes, that is what James is saying. He is not saying that people will lose their salvation without works, but that works are evidence of salvation.

 

[WHO ME]

I don’t see anything in the context to suggest he was talking about that. He seems to be talking more about Gentiles being fellow heirs of the gospel.

Let me deal with one verse at a time)

Paul says in verse 1 for them to STAND FAST in the LIBERTY WHERE CHRIST has made us FREE and become NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN with the yoke of bondage.... that if they go back under the law they will have FALLEN FROM GRACE and Christ has become of no effect..

Only believers (in this case jews) can stand fast in the liberty where Christ has made us free and Not be entangled again (in the law)... correct?

Its not likely that gentiles came out from under the bondage of the law only jews

Fyi I know people dont live on here so I will wait for your answer

 

[Justified]

Let me deal with one verse at a time)

Paul says in verse 1 for them to STAND FAST in the LIBERTY WHERE CHRIST has made us FREE and become NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN with the yoke of bondage.... that if they go back under the law they will have FALLEN FROM GRACE and Christ has become of no effect..

You had stated, “Paul in galatians is talking about these believers falling from grace/Christ in Ephesians 2:8.” Keep Galatians in its context and keep Ephesians in its context. I was addressing Ephesians.

If you want to better understand James 2:14-26, a better comparison is Rom. 4.

Only believers (in this case jews) can stand fast in the liberty where Christ has made us free and Not be entangled again (in the law)... correct?

Its not likely that gentiles came out from under the bondage of the law only jews

All believers risk getting entangled in the law, whether for the first time or the second.

 

[WHO ME]

WHO ME said:
1. Paul in galatians is talking about these believers falling from grace/Christ in Ephesians 2:8 if they go back under the law correct?
JUSTIFIED REPLIED: I don’t see anything in the context to suggest he was talking about that. He seems to be talking more about Gentiles being fellow heirs of the gospel
END OF POST

WHO ME REPLYS: Ok now I see why you answered as you did... I did not mean paul was speaking in galatians 5:1-4 about eph 2:8..
It does sound as such... I only meant that when he mentions grace in galatians it is the grace in eph 2:8 that they would fall from......


Also when you say gentiles being fellow heirs in the gospel what verses are you speaking of?

 

[Justified]

WHO ME said:
1. Paul in galatians is talking about these believers falling from grace/Christ in Ephesians 2:8 if they go back under the law correct?
JUSTIFIED REPLIED: I don’t see anything in the context to suggest he was talking about that. He seems to be talking more about Gentiles being fellow heirs of the gospel
END OF POST

WHO ME REPLYS: Ok now I see why you answered as you did... I did not mean paul was speaking in galatians 5:1-4 about eph 2:8..
It does sound as such... I only meant that when he mentions grace in galatians it is the grace in eph 2:8 that they would fall from......

In Gal. 5:4, Paul isn’t necessarily saying that such persons were already saved by grace. That is, he isn’t stating that a saved person can lose their salvation. A legitimate reading of the text is that Paul is simply saying that by relying on the law for justification, such persons, who weren’t already saved, remove themselves from being able to accept the grace extended to them because justification by grace and justification by law are mutually exclusive.

Also when you say gentiles being fellow heirs in the gospel what verses are you speaking of?

Eph. 2:11-22; 3:6.

 

[marks]

In Gal. 5:4, Paul isn’t necessarily saying that such persons were already saved by grace. That is, he isn’t stating that a saved person can lose their salvation. A legitimate reading of the text is that Paul is simply saying that by relying on the law for justification, such persons, who weren’t already saved, remove themselves from being able to accept the grace extended to them because justification by grace and justification by law are mutually exclusive.


Eph. 2:11-22; 3:6.

There is also Romans 5:1-2:

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We are justified by faith, and by faith we enter the grace in which we stand. We can be saved, but then we think the arm of the flesh can make us stand (there is something we have to do to make it so), and then we are no longer relying on God's grace, and are fallen from grace.

Much love!

 

[Soyeong]

Justification is the declaration of God, the righteous judge, that the man who believes in Christ, sinful though he may be, is viewed as being righteous, because through Christ he has come into a righteous relationship with God,

Ephesians 2:8-9
By (Gods) grace we are Saved through our Faith 9) and not of works.

James 2:24
You see then how by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED and NOT BY FAITH ONLY....

So which is it since Ephesians says not of works and James says with Works?

These 2 verses are talking about 2 different things, Ephesians is talking about when we as unbelievers become believers by believing on Jesus's name and are saved, While James is talking about our walk AFTER that.....

James 2:26 says:
The Body without the Spirit is Dead
is the same as:
Faith without Works is Dead
(Faith w/o works is no different than an unbeliever without the Spirit - Dead

In verse 2:14 James ask what does it profit a man who has only Faith but No Works? Can FAITH (ALONE) SAVE HIM?

until you learn to seperate
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by Grace we are Saved through Faith 9) Not of Works"
FROM -----------------------------------------------FROM
James 2:20 "but will thou know O VAIN MAN that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD
You will never come to the truth....

James 2:21-22
was not Abraham justified by Works
22) seest that how FAITH wrought with his WORKS, and by WORKS was FAITH MADE PERFECT?

2:25 was not rahab justified by works

Think about it like this:
FAITH (which you already have as a believer becomes) DEAD without WORKS (which happens AFTER your saved by Faith)

James 1:22 be ye Doers (works) of the word and Not only hearers of the word Deceiving yourselfs.

Osas is a false teaching making you false teachers or as Taken loves to say baby christians but I'll stick with false teachers


When Paul was talking to jews who had came out from under the law and become believers and then jews under the law were telling them they couldnt be save without the law Paul says:

Galatians 5:1-4
1) Stand fast in the liberty where Christ has MADE YOU FREE and become not entangled AGAIN in bondage.
2) that if you are circumcised (under the law) Christ shall profit you nothing
4) Christ has become of no effect to you, if you go back under the law - you have Fallen From Grace

So we see if these new believers go back under the law they've lost the grace which saved and justified them and will lose their salvation....

James 2:17 even so Faith if it has no Works is Dead being alone....

The believer must have works after he is saved by Faith or his Faith becomes Dead

Remember its Gods Grace THROUGH Your Faith that saves you... what do you think happens if that faith being alive that saved you becomes Dead?

Fyi believing isnt a work....

The issue of the way to become righteous is different than the issue of what describes the behavior of the righteous. The only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough works in order to earn it as the result but what it means to become righteous is to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7, Isaiah 51:7). The Law of God was never given as a way of becoming righteous even as the result of having perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given to describe the behavior of the righteous as it describes the behavior of Christ, so that is the behavior that we get to experience by being given the gift of righteousness through faith. Paul also affirmed in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Law of God will be declared righteous, so there is a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of the Law of God other than in order to earn it as the result, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works done in order to earn it as the result also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31).

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he offered Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works. In James 2:21-24, Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they were embodying his faith, but not insofar as they were earning it as a wage. In other words, we become someone who has faith, someone who will be declared righteous, and someone who is a doer of the Law of God all at the same time and anyone who is not one of those is also not the others, but we do not earn our righteousness as the result of our works.

We embody what we believe to be true about God through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works or with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11. In other words, the way to believe in God is by embodying His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to the Law of God we are embodying God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also embodying the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate (Luke 6:36), the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16), and so forth. The is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a singles example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God. This is also why the Bible repeatedly connects our belief in God with our obedience to Him, such as with Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. It is by this faith alone apart from works done to earn it as the result that we are declared righteous and attain the character traits of God.

In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith alone. It would be absurd to think that he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, so that is not what Paul was speaking against in Galatians 5:1-4. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we can't earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of good works in obedience to the Law of God is nevertheless a central part of His gift of salvation. Jesus saves us from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of God that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

If Galatians 5:1 had been referring to the Law of God as being bondage, then that would mean that God freed the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, which is the opposite of the position that it states that it is for freedom that God sets us free. In Psalm 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of God that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. God never commanded circumcision for the purpose of becoming saved/justified as the result, but He did command for Gentiles who want to eat of the Passover lamb to become circumcised (Exodus 12:48), so it is important to recognize that servants of God can speak against obeying what God has commanded for incorrect reasons without speaking against obeying what God has commanded.

 

[Soyeong]

There is also Romans 5:1-2:

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We are justified by faith, and by faith we enter the grace in which we stand. We can be saved, but then we think the arm of the flesh can make us stand (there is something we have to do to make it so), and then we are no longer relying on God's grace, and are fallen from grace.

Much love!

Much love!

In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is godly, we are not extrinsically required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation. Someone who thinks that we are required to continue to participate in that training is continuing to rely on God's grace while someone who ceases to participate in that training is ceding to rely on God's grace, not the other way around.

We embody our faith through our works, such as as with James 2:18 amines that he would show his faith through his works or with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11, and it is by this faith alone apart from works done in order to earn it as the result that we are declared righteous.

 

[marks]

In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is godly, we are not extrinsically required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation. Someone who thinks that we are required to continue to participate in that training is continuing to rely on God's grace while someone who ceases to participate in that training is ceding to rely on God's grace, not the other way around.

We embody our faith through our works, such as as with James 2:18 amines that he would show his faith through his works or with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11, and it is by this faith alone apart from works done in order to earn it as the result that we are declared righteous.

Simply stated, if you are regenerated, you will be different, doing different things.

Much love!