To live is to sin

[Ferris Bueller]

Right on point; as the scripture says:

1 Peter 4:1
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

There are definitely specific habits of sin in my life that have ceased because I suffered in the flesh because of them. And not suffered in a good way, like Jesus in the garden, but suffered the way Peter tells us not to suffer—like a criminal, or even a meddler. I wish I could say I overcame my sins without sinning! Didn't happen. It was a process. A big part of that was, during the temptation, having the heads up of where things were heading because I'd been down the path so many times before. I'm the proverbial mule that has to be led by bit and bridle most of the time.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Ferris Bueller

I am speaking of the type of suffering produced by denying the flesh of the sin it craves; not the suffering that sin causes afterwards.

The suffering that comes about when you do what the Lord said here is what I am referring to:

Matthew 16:24
...If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[David H.]

I sometimes think I am better off dead. I don't mean to attract sympathy by saying that or to be controversial.
I just feel despairing of avoiding sin. It's impossible to lead a sinless life. Even with God's grace.
To live is to sin is my conclusion. To want to live is to sin even. Why do I want to live? To achieve ambitious goals? To seek entertainment and pleasure? Even to gain status by showing others how I've discovered the truth in Jesus Christ? To prove my superior intellect? To trade insults with people online?
The list goes on. Life is the battleground of Satan versus Jesus in our hearts. And Satan at least wins some of the time. Once we are dead, the struggle ceases. No more conflict. No more opportunities to sin. Peace.

You will never overcome sin in your life by your own will and strength. The harder you try the more you will fail.
What you are speaking of is the romans 7 Christian, you need to move on to Romans 8. The Law of sin and death is at work in you, you need to replace that with the Law of the Spirit of Life. Watchmen Nee used the analogy of Gravity to describe this difference, He said the Law of sin and death is like gravity, always pulling you down, You may be able to raise up your hand and hold a book in the air for so long by your own will and strength and eventually gravity will take its toll on you, your muscles will weaken and gravity will win. The Law of the Spirit of life counters this gravity like a hot air balloon, It is a law unto itself, and lifts you up not by your own power and strength, but by that new Law applied to old. To live by the Spirit is to trust in the will of God, that his Spirit will work in you, and to let God through the Spirit do his work of sanctification in your life. Thus the key to Holiness is surrendering to the work of the Holy Spirit in you and resting in the fact that Christ has redeemed you from your own will and strength.

The Guilt trip you are placing yourself under is part of the problem, as it stems from legalism rather than from Grace, You are punishing yourself for sins that Christ already paid the price for on the cross, As the old saying goes, "Let go, and let God" that has a deep implication for the Christian, Know that you are forgiven and let Him finish His work in you. Then you will begin to see the fruit of the Spirit, Of which there is no law.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hope this helps.
God Bless.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Job 21:3
Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.

Romans 6:11
...reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.



1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You are a natural man, not a spiritual. Get spiritual and leave off the flesh and then you will understand these things.

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.



Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are... under grace? God forbid.

Speak for yourself and be not proud.



I meditate on scriptures often.

Perhaps you should read that scripture in full understanding:

1 John 1:7-8
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Every believer has been cleansed from ALL their sins (leaving NONE). He is in effect without sin. The deceived ones in the passage have NOT been cleansed but believe they have no sin regardless. For the same author in the SAME letter writes:

1 John 2:1
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

And:

1 John 3:8 KJVS
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil

And:

1 John 3:9
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin



Because I base my observations on scriptures, not the opinions of men.



If you want to enter the “not yet” realm, LIVE HOLY NOW!

Especially after being born again (which is the only way living holy matters).



Got scriptures to back this up?

Acts 17:20
[20] For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.



There are no scriptures to support this commonly spread lie in the so-called churches these days regarding present and future sins.



Another lie.

Hear ye what the Lord saith!

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You are in deep sleep with the lullabies of men:

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not

And now I leave you with these words:

Isaiah 28:22
Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong

I am in agreement with everyone of those scriptures - with a few different interpretations though.
Confession for a Christian is essential, we are told to confess our sins lest we be arrogant and prideful. Those who do not confess their sins lack humility. Confession is the process that God uses to sanctify you. Sanctification is instant Spiritually, but our souls aren't instantly transformed, they take time to weed out the bad stuff.
Have you heard of spiritual growth?
I guess you matured instantly, perfectly and all can see it. LOL
Scriptures encourages us to walk in the Spirit - but we don't do that 100% of the time - oh, except for you of course.
Who is your brother? Those who are in CHRIST?
"Take heed to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him and if he repented forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him." LUKE 17:3, 4

Again, does everyone who knows you think your perfect since you became a Christian? You never said or done anything wrong? Never felt guilty about doing or not doing something. How do you think the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin while He dwells in us?

And then how could we grieve the HS if we always did good???
Ways to grieve the Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 4:29-32
Foul language, bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, slander, malicious behavior.
About redemption. We've been bought for a price. He foreknew us, predestined us to BECOME CONFORMED to the image of His Son, He called us, justified us but redemption is not fully complete. He hasn't glorified us yet, given us new bodies - then the full consummation will taken place.


We have to be honest with ourselves. Don't fool yourself. Can you look in the mirror and say I am just like CHRIST, a perfect reflection?
Christ died for all our sins and all of them were in the future btw.
"If you say you have no Sin, the truth is not in you."

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Have you heard of spiritual growth?

Yes I have.

I guess you matured instantly, perfectly and all can see it.

No, I did not mature instantly. But that doesn’t mean that I was born again instantly either...

Who is your brother? Those who are in CHRIST?
"Take heed to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him and if he repented forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him." LUKE 17:3, 4

Luke 17:3 KJV
[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Tresspassing against a brother is not necessarily sinning against the law.

Romans 14:2-3
[2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. [3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

And then how could we grieve the HS if we always did good???

Which is why we are told NOT to grieve the Holy Spirit; Once you are born in the Spirit, walking therein, you will not sin nor grieve the Holy Ghost.

Read the scriptures until you “get it” my friend.

 

[DNB]

I sometimes think I am better off dead. I don't mean to attract sympathy by saying that or to be controversial.
I just feel despairing of avoiding sin. It's impossible to lead a sinless life. Even with God's grace.
To live is to sin is my conclusion. To want to live is to sin even. Why do I want to live? To achieve ambitious goals? To seek entertainment and pleasure? Even to gain status by showing others how I've discovered the truth in Jesus Christ? To prove my superior intellect? To trade insults with people online?
The list goes on. Life is the battleground of Satan versus Jesus in our hearts. And Satan at least wins some of the time. Once we are dead, the struggle ceases. No more conflict. No more opportunities to sin. Peace.

Very profound thoughts, SIA, ...I don't believe that these were necessarily the sentiments of a depressed or discouraged soul, but rather an introspective reflection of how God must perceive us, and how defiant and obstinate we remain in disregarding His authority and wisdom.
Just like yourself, I cannot say one good thing about myself, ...but, that is in comparison to myself before God, not necessarily amongst my peers.

And, in light of what was broached shortly after, probably the only thing that I may be pleased with that i have done, is that I have been giving on a monthly basis to charities, for about 3 decades. I started off with 4 sponsored children from various parts of the world, then resorted to giving where most needed (infrastructure, schooling, health sanitation, etc...). Because, the policy of sponsoring children puts a great deal of emphasis on the relationship, as opposed to an anonymous giver.

Ecclesiastes 4:1-3
4:1. Then I looked again at all the acts of oppression which were being done under the sun. And behold I saw the tears of the oppressed and that they had no one to comfort them; and on the side of their oppressors was power, but they had no one to comfort them. 2. So I congratulated the dead who are already dead more than the living who are still living. 3. But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun.

 

[DNB]

yes

God has yet to put you to the test, QT...!
Your own words will incriminate you - double folly, you claimed victory before the battle is over, and you didn't give the glory to God.
@saintiaint (I mentioned you here just to get your attention on this)

 

[quietthinker]

God has yet to put you to the test, QT...!
Your own words will incriminate you - double folly, you claimed victory before the battle is over, and you didn't give the glory to God.
@saintiaint (I mentioned you here just to get your attention on this)

Does it offend you DNB?...would you judge another man's experience? .....preferring that other should not exceed your own level of experience?

DNB....I have noticed from other of your posts, you are given to gossip/snitching in an attempt to vindicate yourself .....as in your bracketed comment above.

 

[saintiaint]

You will never overcome sin in your life by your own will and strength. The harder you try the more you will fail.
What you are speaking of is the romans 7 Christian, you need to move on to Romans 8. The Law of sin and death is at work in you, you need to replace that with the Law of the Spirit of Life. Watchmen Nee used the analogy of Gravity to describe this difference, He said the Law of sin and death is like gravity, always pulling you down, You may be able to raise up your hand and hold a book in the air for so long by your own will and strength and eventually gravity will take its toll on you, your muscles will weaken and gravity will win. The Law of the Spirit of life counters this gravity like a hot air balloon, It is a law unto itself, and lifts you up not by your own power and strength, but by that new Law applied to old. To live by the Spirit is to trust in the will of God, that his Spirit will work in you, and to let God through the Spirit do his work of sanctification in your life. Thus the key to Holiness is surrendering to the work of the Holy Spirit in you and resting in the fact that Christ has redeemed you from your own will and strength.

The Guilt trip you are placing yourself under is part of the problem, as it stems from legalism rather than from Grace, You are punishing yourself for sins that Christ already paid the price for on the cross, As the old saying goes, "Let go, and let God" that has a deep implication for the Christian, Know that you are forgiven and let Him finish His work in you. Then you will begin to see the fruit of the Spirit, Of which there is no law.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hope this helps.
God Bless.

It does help. Thanks. A very discerning post.

 

[saintiaint]

And, in light of what was broached shortly after, probably the only thing that I may be pleased with that i have done, is that I have been giving on a monthly basis to charities, for about 3 decades. I started off with 4 sponsored children from various parts of the world, then resorted to giving where most needed (infrastructure, schooling, health sanitation, etc...). Because, the policy of sponsoring children puts a great deal of emphasis on the relationship, as opposed to an anonymous giver.

Anyone who puts their faith into action, impresses me. I have a long way to go. Thanks for yet another profound post on this forum. This forum is very lively and useful!

 

[saintiaint]

Is it better for us to "minimise" sin rather than avoid it altogether? Maybe that is more realistic.

 

[saintiaint]

You will get victory over sin. Most likely through suffering, but that's my opinion because that seems to be how it works best for me.

That's encouraging. Have to be honest though. I'm not a fan of suffering. I much prefer pleasure to pain.

 

[quietthinker]

Is it better for us to "minimise" sin rather than avoid it altogether? Maybe that is more realistic.

therein is the devils trick....for he knows that any conscious concession to sin ensures the bait has been taken.....the poison of which does its work.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I much prefer pleasure to pain.

O beware friend:

2 Timothy 3:1-4
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves... heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God

 

[saintiaint]

therein is the devils trick....for he knows that any conscious concession to sin ensures the bait has been taken.....the poison of which does its work.

Yes and No.
Perfectionism is a problem too. Religious scrupulosity I think they call it. Beating ourselves up about thinking impure thoughts for example. The topic of masturbation might highlight this. Some Christians view masturbation as all or nothing. You must stop altogether. I don't. I think it's not a problem until it becomes addictive. Until it intrudes on our daily life. Any addiction is sinful for that matter.

 

[DNB]

Does it offend you DNB?...would you judge another man's experience? .....preferring that other should not exceed your own level of experience?

DNB....I have noticed from other of your posts, you are given to gossip/snitching in an attempt to vindicate yourself .....as in your bracketed comment above.

No, it's an extremely desirable disposition to have the requisite wisdom and self control, that allows one to transcend the desires and temptations of sin.
To the point that, many, either impetuously or self-righteously, claim to have attained to such a coveted state of consciousness, without actually going through the humility, faith and discipline required to get there. We've seen it enough times here and other forums, how everyone and their pets have had a revelation, epiphany, or some other manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

In other words, I felt that your initial clichéd response came out somewhat predictable and superficial. And then, your blatant and inappropriately brief response to SIA's question of your state of sanctification, just had a slight tone of pretense or naivete.

Like I said, we all wish that we were more obedient, wise and mature, that would allow us to be more holy and a threat to the devil. But, with that, comes the responsibility and wisdom that enables us to impart the same insight to others. Whereas i find your comments to be, true, of course, but text-book, and not the impartation of one who has truly achieved such a lofty ideal.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yes I have.



No, I did not mature instantly. But that doesn’t mean that I was born again instantly either...



Luke 17:3 KJV
[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Tresspassing against a brother is not necessarily sinning against the law.

Romans 14:2-3
[2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. [3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.



Which is why we are told NOT to grieve the Holy Spirit; Once you are born in the Spirit, walking therein, you will not sin nor grieve the Holy Ghost.

Read the scriptures until you “get it” my friend.

You are leaning on yournowm understanding. Apparently you are in denial of your flesh -where sin dwells. You still have it. You sound like a young Christian who has not done any amount of self discipleship, examing yourself, Confession. We are at an impasse, can't go any further. You need Pastoral counseling. Take. Some advanced classes - its time. The comment about being born again is evidence that you don't now what you are talking about. Go to some good commentaries by RC Sproul, MacArthur, Charles Stanley or Spurgeon even.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Go to some good commentaries by RC Sproul, MacArthur, Charles Stanley or Spurgeon even.

It’s quite telling how I point you to the Bible, and you point me to men.

Telling indeed.

I will not have the truth of the Bible taught out of me by men in the flesh who:

2 Peter 2:18
...when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

No thank you and I am saddened that you cannot be reached through the truth of scripture.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes and No.
Perfectionism is a problem too. Religious scrupulosity I think they call it. Beating ourselves up about thinking impure thoughts for example. The topic of masturbation might highlight this. Some Christians view masturbation as all or nothing. You must stop altogether. I don't. I think it's not a problem until it becomes addictive. Until it intrudes on our daily life. Any addiction is sinful for that matter.

Play with and maintain that justification and it will take you to places you had not imagined. Adam only ate a fruit.....even against being warned....and look at the mess that has ensued!

Sin dulls the ability to discern, it's an anaesthetic, it is the bedfellow of fools....it has a snowball effect.....it entices, draws you in like a pretty woman, then spits you out bereft.

You might like to familiarise yourself with Proverbs Chapter 4 through to 10 on Wisdom

 

[quietthinker]

No, it's an extremely desirable disposition to have the requisite wisdom and self control, that allows one to transcend the desires and temptations of sin.
To the point that, many, either impetuously or self-righteously, claim to have attained to such a coveted state of consciousness, without actually going through the humility, faith and discipline required to get there. We've seen it enough times here and other forums, how everyone and their pets have had a revelation, epiphany, or some other manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

In other words, I felt that your initial clichéd response came out somewhat predictable and superficial. And then, your blatant and inappropriately brief response to SIA's question of your state of sanctification, just had a slight tone of pretense or naivete.

Like I said, we all wish that we were more obedient, wise and mature, that would allow us to be more holy and a threat to the devil. But, with that, comes the responsibility and wisdom that enables us to impart the same insight to others. Whereas i find your comments to be, true, of course, but text-book, and not the impartation of one who has truly achieved such a lofty ideal.

I'll share this with you DNB. My brevity of answers is deliberate. If they are misinterpreted without further enquiry, so be it, for I have learned that without enquiry, without curiosity there is judgement and short sightedness even if a post is a page long.