Tongues?

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RaddSpencer

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I've never been drunk. The most I've ever felt was enlightened to where I giggled.
God also body slammed me on the ground XD.
 

Wakka

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http://www.entrewave.com/view/reformedonli...%20part%205.htmThis is what the scripture says you can belive what you like my job is to tell you what it says you dont wanna believe thats your choice
You're taking a man's word and opinion over God's. He didn't include all of the scripture, and he twisted scripture to support his opinion.The gift of tongues is for today, even apostle Paul stated this in his letter to Corinthians. In fact, we receive a lot of information from Paul in his letter to Corinthians.In chapter 14, right in the beginning he recommends us to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit.1 Corinthians 14:1-2 1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.1 Corinthians 14:44 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.May I add that this is from the NKJV. The KJV had the word unknown before the word tongue. "He who speaks in an unknown tongue..."The Holy Spirit which abides in us, speaks on our behalf. We are then edified. Where does speaking in other languages fit into this? It doesn't per say. This is just the prayer of our spirit, and it is pretty basic.1 Corinthians 14:55 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.The problem with the link you posted Jag, it said that the biggest problem with Charismatic churches is that they all pray in tongues. Even though it is up to God to who receives the gift, we all should strive to receive it. That is the word of apostle Paul. Why? Because it edifies us, it makes us better Christians.We do not understand what we are praying because it is our spirit praying, not our minds.1 Corinthians 14:1414 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.Our minds are unfruitful. Have you prayed or sat in church and some weird (even unclean) thought had popped into your mind? Or when you pray and you run out of things to say, or you just wander off in your mind? Well the Holy Spirit that abides in us already know what we need to pray for, and what we need. As we pray in tongues, those prayers go out to God.1 Corinthians 14:6-126 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.It's pretty self explanatory. Verse number eleven contains a therefore, therefore find out why it is there for
wink.gif
.
It is also a metaphor to explain that a church full people prophesying in tongues is bad if there is no one to interpret the tongues. Because often the Holy Spirit has something to tell us all, and it comes out through tongues.1 Corinthians 14:1313 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.It is also a therefore. So it must there to recap the entire last paragraph. And it does.Now lets jump to Acts chapter 2.Acts 2:1-41 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.What's so astonishing about this is that they did speak in other languages. But it was the Holy Spirit who did the speaking, the people just uttered the words. So because of Pentecost we know that the Holy Spirit can use tongues to talk to other people of another language. And the process at which they spoke in different tongues is the same process at which we pray in tongues.That Kriss, is your answer to tongues. And it's taken entirely from Scripture with no contradictions at all.
 

RaddSpencer

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You're taking a man's word and opinion over God's. He didn't include all of the scripture, and he twisted scripture to support his opinion.
Wakka, are you a community leader? What are you exactly? (just curious)
 

Wakka

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Wakka, are you a community leader? What are you exactly? (just curious)
I'm just a young Christian, age 17, who is looking for his place in God's will. Honestly, I was saved only last year (look at my join date, I joined shortly after I was saved).I'm currently trying to improve my relationship with the Lord. I want to hear His voice.
 

Wakka

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I mean, how do you have a different color for your name and the "I am Sparticus" title?
At the CB Plaza Menu you can buy different types of colors, etc.
 

Christina

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You're taking a man's word and opinion over God's. He didn't include all of the scripture, and he twisted scripture to support his opinion.The gift of tongues is for today, even apostle Paul stated this in his letter to Corinthians. In fact, we receive a lot of information from Paul in his letter to Corinthians.In chapter 14, right in the beginning he recommends us to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit.1 Corinthians 14:1-2 1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.1 Corinthians 14:44 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.May I add that this is from the NKJV. The KJV had the word unknown before the word tongue. "He who speaks in an unknown tongue..."The Holy Spirit which abides in us, speaks on our behalf. We are then edified. Where does speaking in other languages fit into this? It doesn't per say. This is just the prayer of our spirit, and it is pretty basic.1 Corinthians 14:55 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.The problem with the link you posted Jag, it said that the biggest problem with Charismatic churches is that they all pray in tongues. Even though it is up to God to who receives the gift, we all should strive to receive it. That is the word of apostle Paul. Why? Because it edifies us, it makes us better Christians.We do not understand what we are praying because it is our spirit praying, not our minds.1 Corinthians 14:1414 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.Our minds are unfruitful. Have you prayed or sat in church and some weird (even unclean) thought had popped into your mind? Or when you pray and you run out of things to say, or you just wander off in your mind? Well the Holy Spirit that abides in us already know what we need to pray for, and what we need. As we pray in tongues, those prayers go out to God.1 Corinthians 14:6-126 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.It's pretty self explanatory. Verse number eleven contains a therefore, therefore find out why it is there for
wink.gif
.
It is also a metaphor to explain that a church full people prophesying in tongues is bad if there is no one to interpret the tongues. Because often the Holy Spirit has something to tell us all, and it comes out through tongues.1 Corinthians 14:1313 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.It is also a therefore. So it must there to recap the entire last paragraph. And it does.Now lets jump to Acts chapter 2.Acts 2:1-41 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.What's so astonishing about this is that they did speak in other languages. But it was the Holy Spirit who did the speaking, the people just uttered the words. So because of Pentecost we know that the Holy Spirit can use tongues to talk to other people of another language. And the process at which they spoke in different tongues is the same process at which we pray in tongues.That Kriss, is your answer to tongues. And it's taken entirely from Scripture with no contradictions at all.
Wakka it is not the word of man it is a language study thats the difference the hebrew word means: natrual languages of men.. period thats all it means what was the gifts of languages for to spread the gospel around the world so twisting the meaning of the word tongues to mean what you want doesnt change what scripture realy says.I know this doesnt change your opinion but it is the truth. There is no unknown tongue written in Gods Word. You can pray however you see put but the gift of Language (tongues) has nothing to do with it
 

RaddSpencer

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I'm just a young Christian, age 17, who is looking for his place in God's will. Honestly, I was saved only last year (look at my join date, I joined shortly after I was saved).I'm currently trying to improve my relationship with the Lord. I want to hear His voice.
And you haven't gotten drunk in the spirit yet? Shame shame XD."Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." Ephesians 5:18"Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine." Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!"Acts 2:13-15You will be like the drunken master of the spirit XD HEHEHE. (Hilarious movie man)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj4GJfPsk6o&feature=related
 

Wakka

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Wakka it is not the word of man it is a language study thats the difference the hebrew word means: natrual languages of men.. period thats all it means what was the gifts of languages for to spread the gospel around the world so twisting the meaning of the word tongues to mean what you want doesnt change what scripture realy says.I know this doesnt change your opinion but it is the truth. There is no unknown tongue written in Gods Word. You can pray however you see put but the gift of Language (tongues) has nothing to do with it
Well, that man's language study is wrong. For one, he did not address 1 Corinthians 14:2 in that we speak to God in our tongues.2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
 

RaddSpencer

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Well, that man's language study is wrong. For one, he did not address 1 Corinthians 14:2 in that we speak to God in our tongues.2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
Seriously man, when I spoke in tongues, even I didn't even know what I was saying.
 

Christina

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Alright Wakka belive what you want I told you I didnt want to argue this with you I will explain once again but I know it does not matter so no sense in going on you will believe what you believe and I will belive what I read. As I said before we just have to agree to disagree on this I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.""Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired).""Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about.
 

Wakka

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Alright Wakka belive what you want I told you I didnt want to argue this with you I will explain once again but I know it does not matter so no sense in going on you will believe what you believe and I will belive what I read. As I said before we just have to agree to disagree on this I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.""Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired).""Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about.
Rad, you mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQGz3DMoyQKriss, then there is 1 Corinthians 14:14-17 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. Praying in a tongue is praying with the spirit. Kriss. There is irrefutable evidence that tongues is prayer.
 

Christina

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Rad, you mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQGz3DMoyQKriss, then there is 1 Corinthians 14:14-17 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. Praying in a tongue is praying with the spirit. Kriss. There is irrefutable evidence that tongues is prayer.
Wakka everyone that has confessed a belief in Jesus Christ and repented of there sins prays in the spirit this verse contradicts what you are saying Im not sure why you used them unless you may have misread themI Corinthians 14:14-17 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."If you pray in a language that your mind doesn't understand, then of what benefit is your prayer. You uttered words that mean nothing, and have created nothing but noise. When you pray to the Father, know exactly who you are praying to and for what purpose. However if you are just muttering words and sounds that have no meaning, your prayer is in vain. In short, you have to be able to communicate, before people know what you are saying. Remember that this chapter is dealing with teaching those that are foreigners to you, and those that do not speak your language. The ability to communicate is a gift from God.
 

truth_seeker

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1. That's your opinion. I'm 100% sure that it didn't come from two college students who were doing an experiment.
well it did. the student's name was Agnes Ozman and her tutor was Charles Fox Parham. Charles was trying to understand what it meant to recieve the holy spirit, so he sent Agnes and a few other students to determine how to recieve the holy spirit from the bible. in the students' research, they concluded that in order to recieve the holy spirit, one must speak in tongues. so they then prayed to our lord to be gifted in tounges. the next day, it was believed that Agnes spoke in chinese. but here's the thing, there was no one there to confirm that. they never even went to ask a chinese community if this was a real chinese language. in fact, agnez didn't even preach in this chinese language to any chinese communitys. the next day, agnez went back to her church and told everyone the news. it wasn't even reported that agnez spoke in any languages by her church members. on the contrary, it's actually believed years later she changed her views in speaking in tonges. you can research this information yourself if you don't believe me. i'd start with charles fox parham and his bethel bible school to get an idea where he came from.anyhow, of course, this movement passed on to William J. Seymour, and this version of sprititual-unknown-tongues kicked off world-wide. it is this version of tongues which is in most of our mainstream christian churches today. it was like they were all interested in learning this unknown language, rather than learning from god himself.(Wakka;47949)
I'd believe it if God gave them a revelation, and had a plan for him.
if that's true, then why didn't agnez preach in this chinese language to the chinese community? that's what the gift of tongues is for. shouldn't she atleast went to see someone who was chinese or someone who could speak chinese fluently to see if she was speaking chinese?(Wakka;47949)
Scripture supports the idea of tongues
i totally agree, but as i've clearly pointed out, what version of tongues does scripture support? there's 2 versions of tongues in our churches. there's a group of people who think tongues is some spiritual-unknown-language, which no one or even them have comprehension of. i even asked what were they saying and they replied "only god knows". i was shocked. they speak in gibberish words which i can't even begin to pronounce: "hubba bubba, hubba hubba hubba, baka ish, baka ish" when we prayed, and they continously repeat it. is this the real inspired tongues that scripture supports which the holy ghost pours out? or this something under some delusion or a false doctrine? scripture clearly says the gift of tongues is an identifying language. when peter and the apostles spoke in tongues, the gentiles that were there identified their own languages that were spoken by the apostles. they didn't say "hey, what language is that? what are you speaking? is that some weird gibberish, mate?" no, on the contrary, they actually identified it. acts 2-7 "... these people are all from galilee and yet we hear them speaking in our own native languages..", does that sound like some gibberish wording from the lord's chosen apostles? i actually believe they were given these languages to spread the word to the gentiles who spoke a numerous languages; latin, greek, assyrian, babolyion, etc, etc.(Wakka;47949)
2. There were other preachers who spoke in tongues. In Acts it says that God will pour his spirit out in the last days.
yes that's true, but that doesn't mean charles, agnez, and william and the community spoke in tongues as well, or even to say that god poured out his spirit upon them.
 

setfree

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Wakka everyone that has confessed a belief in Jesus Christ and repented of there sins prays in the spirit this verse contradicts what you are saying Im not sure why you used them unless you may have misread themI Corinthians 14:14-17 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."If you pray in a language that your mind doesn't understand, then of what benefit is your prayer. You uttered words that mean nothing, and have created nothing but noise. When you pray to the Father, know exactly who you are praying to and for what purpose. However if you are just muttering words and sounds that have no meaning, your prayer is in vain. In short, you have to be able to communicate, before people know what you are saying. Remember that this chapter is dealing with teaching those that are foreigners to you, and those that do not speak your language. The ability to communicate is a gift from God.
I do not believe everyone that confesses belief prays in the Spirit. Most of the time we pray selfish prayers. Only the Spirit of God that lives within us knows and can pray the perfect prayer. 1 Cor. 14:15-17 speaks of praying with the spirit(do not understand) and with understanding. Both are done! It does not say at the same time. These are two different ways to pray. It goes on to say that in the church and you bless with the spirit(tongues) how will the ones present understand you and say amen. vs. 17 FOR THOU VERILY GIVEST THANKS WELL, He is not condeming praying in tongues(spirit) He is instructing not to do it in public without an interpreter.
 

HammerStone

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Wakka, go to the Greek - do you understand what tounges mean? The KJV commonly uses unicorn in many locations, but since they did not exist the wild ox was clearly the intended meaning. I'm making the point that words can be used inappropriately in instances, and some person babbling away in some mythic language of gibberish is not of our Father.The language and mannerisms of our Father are nothing to scoff at. I can rest assured when Yeshua returns, he will not speak in a language that makes one desire to laugh.
 

setfree

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scripture clearly says the gift of tongues is an identifying language. when peter and the apostles spoke in tongues, the gentiles that were there identified their own languages that were spoken by the apostles. they didn't say "hey, what language is that? what are you speaking? is that some weird gibberish, mate?" no, on the contrary, they actually identified it. acts 2-7 "... these people are all from galilee and yet we hear them speaking in our own native languages..", does that sound like some gibberish wording from the lord's chosen apostles? i actually believe they were given these languages to spread the word to the gentiles who spoke a numerous languages; latin, greek, assyrian, babolyion, etc, etc.
The disciples on the day of Pentecost were not preaching to the others (of different languages). Peter preached! These disciples were full of the Spirit and were praising God, (telling of the wonderful works of God) Acts 10:46 When the spirit fell upon them they magnified(praised) God. They did not preach! Eph. 19:6 They spoke with tongues AND preached. These are seperate gifts not the same. It does not mention anyone there hearing them speak in their tongue. They were praising(like praying).
 

Christina

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well it did. the student's name was Agnes Ozman and her tutor was Charles Fox Parham. Charles was trying to understand what it meant to recieve the holy spirit, so he sent Agnes and a few other students to determine how to recieve the holy spirit from the bible. in the students' research, they concluded that in order to recieve the holy spirit, one must speak in tongues. so they then prayed to our lord to be gifted in tounges. the next day, it was believed that Agnes spoke in chinese. but here's the thing, there was no one there to confirm that. they never even went to ask a chinese community if this was a real chinese language. in fact, agnez didn't even preach in this chinese language to any chinese communitys. the next day, agnez went back to her church and told everyone the news. it wasn't even reported that agnez spoke in any languages by her church members. on the contrary, it's actually believed years later she changed her views in speaking in tonges. you can research this information yourself if you don't believe me. i'd start with charles fox parham and his bethel bible school to get an idea where he came from.anyhow, of course, this movement passed on to William J. Seymour, and this version of sprititual-unknown-tongues kicked off world-wide. it is this version of tongues which is in most of our mainstream christian churches today. it was like they were all interested in learning this unknown language, rather than learning from god himself.if that's true, then why didn't agnez preach in this chinese language to the chinese community? that's what the gift of tongues is for. shouldn't she atleast went to see someone who was chinese or someone who could speak chinese fluently to see if she was speaking chinese?i totally agree, but as i've clearly pointed out, what version of tongues does scripture support? there's 2 versions of tongues in our churches. there's a group of people who think tongues is some spiritual-unknown-language, which no one or even them have comprehension of. i even asked what were they saying and they replied "only god knows". i was shocked. they speak in gibberish words which i can't even begin to pronounce: "hubba bubba, hubba hubba hubba, baka ish, baka ish" when we prayed, and they continously repeat it. is this the real inspired tongues that scripture supports which the holy ghost pours out? or this something under some delusion or a false doctrine? scripture clearly says the gift of tongues is an identifying language. when peter and the apostles spoke in tongues, the gentiles that were there identified their own languages that were spoken by the apostles. they didn't say "hey, what language is that? what are you speaking? is that some weird gibberish, mate?" no, on the contrary, they actually identified it. acts 2-7 "... these people are all from galilee and yet we hear them speaking in our own native languages..", does that sound like some gibberish wording from the lord's chosen apostles? i actually believe they were given these languages to spread the word to the gentiles who spoke a numerous languages; latin, greek, assyrian, babolyion, etc, etc.yes that's true, but that doesn't mean charles, agnez, and william and the community spoke in tongues as well, or even to say that god poured out his spirit upon them.
Amen truth seeker someone who can understand scripture I didnt know about Agnes but I did reseach and found that the first men who did this tried to later denounce it as evil but it was to late.....then by the 1960 the movement was taken over by radicals who went to the catholics to help them form a doctrine.
 
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