'Tophet' (Lake of Fire) is the Goddess 'Vesta'. She is the Moment of Conception.

[QuantumBit]

Pass Through the Fire

Since the concept of the Lake of Fire comes to us from the Old Testament, we can study the verses describing it to gain a more accurate understanding of what the Lake of Fire is all about. This is something that every Christian should do if they really care about what happens to the Unsaved.

Do they 'infinitely burn'? Are they 'annihilated'? Will the Old Testament descriptions of the Lake of Fire match with what the Church teaches? Let us find out...

Leviticus 18:21
"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD."

Deuteronomy 18:10
"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch..."

2 Kings 16:3
"But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel."

2 Kings 17:17
"And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."

2 Kings 21:6
"And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."

2 Chronicles 33:6
"And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."

Jeremiah 32:35
"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

Ezekiel 16:21
"That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?"

Ezekiel 20:26
"And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD."

Ezekiel 20:31
"For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be enquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be enquired of by you."

In the eleven verses referenced above, we find the phrase 'pass through the fire'. Meditate on that for a moment. This means that those that are thrown into the Lake of Fire do not stay in the fire! They pass through it. Have you been taught this? I personally have yet to hear a Church, Christian, Pastor, etc. teach this valuable Truth.

So, where do the Unsaved go when they pass through the fire? They go to an entity called 'Molech'. And who, or what, is Molech? We can take a quick look at Wikipedia to see what it has to say...

"The etymology of Moloch is uncertain"

Moloch - Wikipedia

Stop right there!

Scholars are not quite sure what Molech was all about, therefore we must use the Word of God to help us out. Before we do that however, we should examine a few points that the Wikipedia article mentions...

"The medieval rabbinical tradition understood Moloch as closely related to other similarly named deities mentioned in the bible such as Milcom, Adrammelek, and Anammelech."

The last two names mentioned are 'Adrammelek' and 'Anammelech'. Here they are in the Bible...

2 Kings 17:31
"And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim."

Adrammelek and Anammelech are companions. Adrammelek represents the Sun as well as the Male Generative Principle. Anammelech represents the Moon as well as the Female Generative Principle...

Anammelech, according to the Hebrew Bible, was a Syrian and Mesopotamian goddess worshipped alongside Adrammelech. She is a lunar deity and is said to have been worshipped at Sepharvaim, an Assyrian town. She is possibly the daughter of Anu as her name means "Anu is king."

Anammelech - Wikipedia

Together, they represent the Male and Female Generative Principles combining to produce a child.

And there you have it. Once again, we have found evidence that the Lake of Fire leads to the moment of conception.

 

[St. SteVen]

You believe the Lord died right? Complete cessation of life? Otherwise, you have no sacrifice for sin, if he remained alive in the tomb!

I suppose a definition of terms is in order.

Where was Jesus for three days after his crucifixion?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Question: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

 

[face2face]

I suppose a definition of terms is in order.

Where was Jesus for three days after his crucifixion?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Question: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Thanks St. Steven

The realm of the dead is the grave....however if you believe it's something more happy to review your evidence.

If 1 Peter 3 is all you have to go on your evidence is light on...to answer your question "(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?"

Simply means he was buried in the earth however in his case a tomb where his body & mind lay completely dead three days.

Your Romans 14:9 verse is a tough one for you "Christ died and returned to life"...Quantum and all those who believe Jesus never really died would struggle to explain how a man can die and have his life returned to him if he was in fact dead.

Hope that helps

F2F

 

[QuantumBit]

If 1 Peter 3 is all you have to go on your evidence is light on...to answer your question "(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?"

Simply means he was buried in the earth however in his case a tomb where his body & mind lay completely dead three days.

So, according to your logic, when Jesus first descended from Heaven to incarnate...

John 6:38
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

John 6:42
"And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?"

John 6:51
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

...he went to the 'grave' and was 'birthed like a Zombie'.

Hmmm...

This sounds like a good opportunity to try the @St. SteVen method of interpretation verification...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in [the graveyard], and curiously wrought [like a Zombie emerging from a tomb]."



I do not believe Jesus was born like that.

 

[QuantumBit]

This is better...



Again, the 'Lower/Lowest parts of the Earth' is symbolic of the womb from which we all came...

In the lowest parts of the earth.--This figurative allusion to the womb is intended no doubt to heighten the feeling of mystery attaching to birth. There may also be a covert allusion to the creation from dust as Ecclesiasticus 40:1, "From the day that they go out of their mother's womb, till the day that they return to the mother of all things." This allusion falls in with the view which meets us in other parts of the Old Testament, that the creation of Adam is repeated at every birth (Job 33:6, and see above, Psalm 139:13).

Psalm 139:15 - You Have Searched Me and Known Me

 

[face2face]

When we look at the goddess Vesta who was believed to be the Daughter of Saturn and Ops, goddess of flocks and herds, and of the household; in her temple the Vestal virgins maintained a perpetual fire.


Notice the temple with the perpetual fire burning on the right?
I get a real kick out of seeing the link between paganism and apostate Christianity.
I often wonder if the judgement on Sodom was written in figurative language (like the Revelation) what would the Christian have made of that? I'm glad it stands a prototypical example of God divine judgements coming on the earth.
The Christian needs to ask themselves the question; do I want the type of religion which became Church & State (paganism) or do I want to understand the actual real life events planned for Christs second coming.
You get people like Quantum who have vivid imaginations the kind who thought up Vesta which we all know has its origins in men.
F2F

 

[QuantumBit]

You get people like Quantum who have vivid imaginations the kind who thought up Vesta which we all know has its origins in men.
F2F

Nope. Read the OP again. Tophet is another name for Vesta according to the Bible.

Links and references are provided.

 

[face2face]

So, according to your logic, when Jesus first descended from Heaven to incarnate...


John 6:38
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

John 6:42
"And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?"

John 6:51
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Just to be be clear you are inferring Jesus came down from Heaven as a god to become a man to be born in the womb of a woman? And not the expression of God's Logos which gave Jesus life and existence as the Bible teaches?

...he went to the 'grave' and was 'birthed like a Zombie'.

Well a zombie is deemed the living dead, so your analogy is somewhat nonsensical wouldn't you say?

but yes the risen Lord is the firstfruits from the dead; the firstfruits of them that sleep.

You can't run from this regardless of how hard you try!

Hmmm...

This sounds like a good opportunity to try the @St. SteVen method of interpretation verification...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in [the graveyard], and curiously wrought [like a Zombie emerging from a tomb]."

View attachment 31911

I do not believe Jesus was born like that.

Sorry, do you believe Psalm 139:15 is talking about how a person is made a spiritual being with divine nature? You should take another look at that!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Nope. Read the OP again. Tophet is another name for Vesta according to the Bible.

Links and references are provided.

Yeah, I think your imagination on this OP is in overdrive. The Lake of Fire has been clearly defined - plenty of references provided, none of which have been dealt with to date. Rev 19:20 is a start.

 

[QuantumBit]

Just to be be clear you are inferring Jesus came down from Heaven as a god to become a man to be born in the womb of a woman? And not the expression of God's Logos which gave Jesus life and existence as the Bible teaches?

You gave me a false choice mixed with Truth. Try again.

Well a zombie is deemed the living dead, so your analogy is somewhat nonsensical wouldn't you say?

That was the point. Your interpretation of Jesus descending from Heaven to the Grave to incarnate is nonsensical. Glad you agree.

 

[face2face]

@QuantumBit what I'm gleaning from you so far is you don't believe Jesus died (completely), which carries with it some disastrous ramifications to the believer.

The most notable are Paul words in Corinthians

For if the dead (utterly) are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

You can see the connection between "dead" and "those who have fallen asleep" to mean those who are now dust awaiting the resurrection. The example of David is a good one in:

“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day."

Of course no mention of David being in Heaven, or experiencing an afterlife as you would have it - no he is asleep in Christ fully and completely dead, awaiting the resurrection.

So it would appear your Christ didn't die and wasn't raised and maybe you are to be pitied for holding such an abhorrent teaching.

As Paul states...only the true Gospel hope is in our possession in this life!

We seek for immortality, its not currently in your possession Romans 2:7

F2F

 

[QuantumBit]

Rev 19:20 is a start.

Revelation 19:20
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

They were thrown into the portal back to the womb to be conceived yet again as the various Antichrists throughout history. I have addressed this already.

I will do it again...

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

As has been proven countless times on this forum, the phrase 'for ever and ever' means 'age after age' or 'lifetime after lifetime'.

It is a cycle of death and rebirth, here on this Earth.

 

[QuantumBit]

@QuantumBit what I'm gleaning from you so far is you don't believe Jesus died (completely)...

Of course Jesus did not die completely. There is no such thing. The Spirit of God never dies. It goes back to God...

Luke 23:46
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

I have asked you to prove that Spirit dies or is destroyed, but you ignore my requests.

You have a severe issue with what the Bible teaches of the Spirit. This is why I cannot have a normal discussion with you. Any attempt is futile.

...which carries with it some disastrous ramifications to the believer.

No, it does not.

You can see the connection between "dead" and "those who have fallen asleep" to mean those who are now dust awaiting the resurrection.

Sleep means someone still has Life. In the case of the dead, it is a 'dream state'. The Spirit and Soul are resting.

Of course no mention of David being in Heaven on experiencing an afterlife - no he is asleep in Christ fully and completely dead awaiting the resurrection.

The Saved are in Abraham's Bosom. The dead 'sleep' there until Resurrection. The Unsaved are in a place called Torments.

Rich Man and Lazarus.

 

[face2face]

Revelation 19:20
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

They were thrown into the portal back to the womb to be conceived yet again as the various Antichrists throughout history. I have addressed this already.

I will do it again...

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

As has been proven countless times on this forum, the phrase 'for ever and ever' means 'age after age' or 'lifetime after lifetime'.

It is a cycle of death and rebirth, here on this Earth.

This is a real mess.

What do you believe the Beast & False Prophet are?

And how do you throw death and the grave into this Lake of Fire?

Should be good.

F2F

 

[QuantumBit]

I get a real kick out of seeing the link between paganism and apostate Christianity.

According to your logic, since the word 'Hades' (Brother of Hestia/Vesta) is in the Bible, it means we are all Pagan now.

 

[face2face]

Of course Jesus did not die completely. There is no such thing. The Spirit of God never dies. It goes back to God...

Wow, let that rest on you and everyone else reading this!

Luke 23:46
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

I have asked you to prove that Spirit dies or is destroyed, but you ignore my requests.

What did he give up on the cross? You are quoting from the KJV which uses the incorrect word "ghost".

“Yielded up the spirit” - read Mk 15:37 & Lk 23v46 “gave up” what did he give up?

Yes “He breathed his last”.... “No man takes it from me” John 10:17-18.

Boy Quantum, this is elementary Bible teaching here!

Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit (life!).” Having said this, he breathed his last.

Do you believe Jesus was commending some immortal essence back to God?

Nonsense! He was saying Father I give you my life trusting in three days He would raise him from the dead.

Honestly cant believe I'm having this discussion.

You have a severe issue with what the Bible teaches of the Spirit. This is why I cannot have a normal discussion with you. Any attempt is futile.



No, it does not.



Sleep means someone still has Life. In the case of the dead, it is a 'dream state'. The Spirit and Soul are resting.



The Saved are in Abraham's Bosom. The dead 'sleep' there until Resurrection. The Unsaved are in a place called Torments.

Rich Man and Lazarus.

I wont deal with the Parable of the Rich man Lazarus and park that for now.

I'm more concerned you don't believe Jesus actually died.

F2F

 

[face2face]

According to your logic, since the word 'Hades' (Sister of Hestia/Vesta) is in the Bible, it means we are all Pagan now.

You are applying pagan ideas to a highly symbolic text in the Revelation not understanding end times and how they relate tot God's judgements on the earth. In other words, seek to know the true meaning of the Revelation and the Lake of Fire will be shown to you.

You are still yet to explain how the death and grave literally are thrown into this fire.

F2F

 

[QuantumBit]

Wow, let that rest on you and everyone else reading this!

Oh, the drama. Lol.

Here is how Death is defined in the Bible...

• 1st Death = Death of the Body (Soul and Spirit are still intact)
• 2nd Death = Death of the Body and Soul (Spirit is still intact)

That is all there is to it.

 

[QuantumBit]

Spirit is more than just 'air' @face2face

 

[QuantumBit]

What do you believe the Beast & False Prophet are?

And how do you throw death and the grave into this Lake of Fire?

I will address soon.