'Tophet' (Lake of Fire) is the Goddess 'Vesta'. She is the Moment of Conception.

[marks]

Matthew 23:15 (Young's Literal Translation)
"Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen -- ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves."

'Son of Gehenna' is just as literal as any other 'Son of' in the Bible...

Are you suggesting that the Pharisees would birth people from the lake of fire?

Much love!

 

[QuantumBit]

The Lake of Fire is the second death, a place of everlasting torment, God's wrath upon the devil, and the beast and the falst prophet, and those who were not found written in the book of life.

It is a placed of destruction and torment and wrath, and is called the "second death", not the "second life".

Pagan gods and godesses aside.

Much love!

Hi @marks

See my previous comment.

 

[marks]

Hi @marks

See my previous comment.

Which one?

Much love!

 

[strepho]

I'm not judging anyone. Nahum chapter 1 is warning to the heathen and wicked. God will take revenge. During millennium, if the heathen don't repent and conform to God's standard. The lake of fire is thier. Asbestos clothes won't do any good. The millennium is time of teaching and correction. God will not force anyone to love Him. Reality is. Some people will follow satan into lake of fire. Revelation chapter 20 to document. The wicked and heathen destroy them selves. Peace.

 

[QuantumBit]

Are you suggesting that the Pharisees would birth people from the lake of fire?

Much love!

What Jesus is teaching in Matthew 23:15 is that not only were all of the Scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites born out of Gehenna once, but their converts will be born out of it yet again. The converts have chosen the path of destruction and rebirth. Their fate is sealed.

It is a continual cycle until all become Saved.

 

[QuantumBit]

Thank you @strepho for your post. I revisited Nahum chapter 1. Heavy stuff.

 

[marks]

What Jesus is teaching in Matthew 23:15 is that not only were all of the Scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites born out of Gehenna once, but their converts will be born out of it yet again. The converts have chosen the path of destruction and rebirth. Their fate is sealed.

It is a continual cycle until all become Saved.

How many times do you see this happening?

Revelation 20:11-15 KJV
11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Are you saying this judgment occurs over and over, repopulating the earth with the next batch of sinners, growing smaller and smaller with each iteration, as more and more are Saved?

I don't see that.

Much love!

 

[QuantumBit]

How many times do you see this happening?

I have not come to a solid conclusion yet, however I do know that it has happened to Satan at least seven times. Each 'head' of the Beast is an incarnation throughout the history of the Old Testament...

1. King of Egypt
2. King of Assyria
3. King of Babylon
4. King of Medo-Persia
5. King of Greece
6. King of Rome
7. King 'Not Yet Come'

​

Satan falls to incarnate as the various Antichrists throughout history. The proof may be found if folks are willing to look...

King of Egypt

Ezekiel 29:3
"Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself."

Satan, the Dragon, was the King of Egypt.

King of Babylon

Jeremiah 51:34
"Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon hath devoured me, he hath crushed me, he hath made me an empty vessel, he hath swallowed me up like a dragon, he hath filled his belly with my delicates, he hath cast me out."

Isaiah 14:12
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Etc. Etc.

Now, apply the above to this verse...

Psalms 12:6
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

The Seed/DNA/Genome is the Word. It is 'purified' seven times in the Lake of Fire. It is a cycle of Eugenics.

...and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

...and they were judged every man according to their works.

The Unsaved are judged according to their works. Why? What purpose does that serve if everyone receives the same punishment (as most Churches tell people)?

The purpose is to hand the proper sentence to be paid in the next Life. All is just, all is fair.

Are you saying this judgment occurs over and over, repopulating the earth with the next batch of sinners...

Yes.

Of course not all are pre-ordained to be sinners. Some are 'Crucified with Christ' (Baptism of the Lake of Fire) and are preached to before they are born...

1 Peter 3:19
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

...growing smaller and smaller with each iteration, as more and more are Saved?

The process is not linear. The Unsaved can find themselves going back to any part of the timeline.

The Book of Daniel prophesizes that there will Saved in Heaven that will be tempted in the Last Days and fall...

Daniel 8:10
"And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."

Fallen Angels are those who wish to leave their 'first estate' so to speak and come back to experience Life again. It is always a choice. Free Will never gets taken away.

 

[marks]

I have not come to a solid conclusion yet, however I do know that it has happened to Satan at least seven times. Each 'head' of the Beast is an incarnation throughout the history of the Old Testament...

1. King of Egypt
2. King of Assyria
3. King of Babylon
4. King of Medo-Persia
5. King of Greece
6. King of Rome
7. King 'Not Yet Come'

Revelation 20:11-15 KJV
11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After heaven and earth "fled away", with "no place for them", the dead, small and great, stand before God. This is at a certain time, at the end of a 1000 year kingdom.

After this judgment is a new creation, a new heaven and new earth.

I see no reason to reject what this passage says, and it speaks plainly. There is a resurrection to life with Christ, and then 1000 years later, there is a resurrection to judgment, and all not found in the book of life are thrown into the lake of fire.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The purpose is to hand the proper sentence to be paid in the next Life. All is just, all is fair.

You pay for your own sins in subsequent incarnations? Like Karma?

Much love!

 

[QuantumBit]

You pay for your own sins in subsequent incarnations? Like Karma?

Much love!

That is what the Word of God teaches over and over all throughout, including the story of Adam and Eve. Temple Atonements helped to alleviate some, most or all of that debt. Not all were saved, however. That was the problem.

If the Temple Atonement ensured everyone would go to Heaven, then we would not need Jesus. The reason Jesus came was to solve that problem and save us from the Second Death and having to reap what we sowed...

Galatians 6:7
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

The current Church teachings mock God. But regardless of what their false dogma teaches; the Bible is clear. We have two choices on which Body we will be born with next...

Galatians 6:8
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

• We can come back here again with a Body of corruption, like we did the last time, or...
• We can go to the New Heavens and New Earth and reap Life Everlasting.

Again, the two choices are not "Reap annihilation or reap a Glorified Body", neither are the two choices "Reap infinite burning or reap a Glorified Body".

The Unsaved will be born again of flesh. The Saved will be born again of Spirit. Simple and easy to understand.

 

[QuantumBit]

By the way @marks ...

I appreciate you taking the time to consider this information and offer your very intelligent thoughts in a friendly manner.

 

[QuantumBit]

In other news, our good friend @St. SteVen has been doing an excellent job at interrogating folks on what happens to the Unsaved...

What did Jesus die to save us from?

I was raised evangelical, but find myself questioning much of what we were taught in church. This gets me in trouble with those, like me, who were raised to NEVER question the answers the church fed us. Questions, it seems are for unbelievers. A healthy skepticism is viewed as agnostic, or...

www.christianityboard.com

So far, I am not convinced that the 'God is Hate' folks have things properly figured out.

 

[face2face]

So God kills the bad people forever?

He has been known to kill people but generally He allows them to fulfill their lusts and reap what they have sown...which is death if they persist. Surely you know that much.

 

[face2face]

The Soul is the Genome. It is information that exists outside of death of the Body. All Life has a Soul. It is the Word made flesh...

John 6:63
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Absolutely! John 6:63 Thy Words are Spirit & Life...the flesh profits nothing. Nothing here about an ethereal Spirit living outside of the body...Hmmm this is rather disapointing as I thought you would present something relevent to your belief.

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"

Maybe you believe God can be praised after death? Psa 6:5

The verse is clear. Spirit, not Soul, is Life.

Ah I see where you are going wrong.

You are talking about Spirit in terms of the teaching Christ imparts to his disciples and yes that is the promise of Life however the word soul is often speaking of the natural life of a person.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezek 18:20
God can destroy the soul (Matt. 10:28) Something He will never do is destroy Himself LOL
"...every living soul died" (Rev 16:3; cp. Psalm 78:50).
"The blood of the souls" (Jer 2:34).
Etc. etc....
So many verse to show you that Soul eats, sleep awakes

Once again I implore you to read with context in mind and dont force man made notions upon the text.

That's a dangerous practice!

The whole point of the Lake of Fire is to destroy the Soul, to destroy the Genetic Sequences of the previous Body, so that the Spirit can be given a new set of DNA instructions to create a new Body. This is why it is called the Second Death. The Genome must be rewritten. Build Back Better...

A similar process occurs with the Glorified Body. The 'New Name' is the new Genome...

Revelation 2:17
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

The White Stone is the Seed of Abraham. It is the 'Rock'. The Seed is the Word of God. DNA.

The 'names' in the Book of Life are Genetic Sequences, not 'Billy' or 'Sue'... lol.

The Lion of the Tribe of Judah is the only one that can loose the Seven Seals on the Book of Life and claim ownership of the Genetic Code contained therein.

Nothing above of any Scriptural relevance....looks like you have some personal addenda.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@QuantumBit

What's interesting is you have shown no interest in discovering the true meaning to the adversary who fell like lightening?

No interest in the simile? I wonder if you understand the skillful play on words? Do you know the back story to Luke 10 and the reason why Jesus was elated in the report of the 70 disciples?

You see the problem with most Christians is they presume to understand a verse, because someone told them this is what it means without testing that understanding.

Who is the adversary who "fell like lightening?"

Think about what the Lord had been doing and who he had been contending with...look for the clues within the previous chapter and then look at those he deals in chapter 10 and maybe you will understand why the Master was so delighted in this news!

I'm not going to tell you without you at least trying to study the Scripture in context!

You need to unlearn before learning can take place

F2F

 

[face2face]

The Lake of Fire is the second death, a place of everlasting torment, God's wrath upon the devil, and the beast and the falst prophet, and those who were not found written in the book of life.

It is a placed of destruction and torment and wrath, and is called the "second death", not the "second life".

Pagan gods and godesses aside.

Much love!

For some reason Christians have been led to believe the Lake of Fire is a literal place when it's clear its symbolic of God's judgements on the earth.

How do we know this?

Well, firstly how can you throw death and hell (grave) into a Lake of Fire? Rev 20:14 You can't right? Impossible to throw literal death and literal hell into a Lake of Fire.

So what does it mean?

Well, firstly the writer is using personification making death and the grave a person, who is thrown into a symbolic Lake of Destruction.

In other words, its saying at the end of Christ's reign on earth death and the grave will be no more. There will no longer be mortal people on the planet who will die naturally, and so the grave is no more also.

Firstly, understand the use of personification.
Secondly, understand applying a literal interpretation is impossible to Rev 20:14
Thirdly, read the text within its context and seek to understand the mind of Christ and his teaching.

Enjoy
F2F

 

[face2face]

Why are we born out of the 'grave' as you call it?

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

Where did Jesus descend to when he incarnated? Did Jesus descend into Mary's womb or the grave?

Psalm 139:15 is an idiomatic way of emphasizing the great contrast between God's heaven, and the earth...its Ephesians 4:9 isn't it?

You believe the Lord died right? Complete cessation of life? Otherwise, you have no sacrifice for sin, if he remained alive in the tomb!

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Are you actually teaching that Jesus descended into the grave to be conceived?

I'm confused by what you are saying.

When Jesus said "I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave." Rev 1:18

Do you believe Jesus is here saying "I was dead...but still actually alive" surely not!

And why make the point of being alive forever and ever, if you believe he was always alive? You would believe in a hoax...a false display like something pretending to be, but actually not.

Doesn't make sense does it Quantum?

No, you need to accept Christ was completely dead in the grave those three days and his Father raised him to Eternal Life as the Gospel teaches.

That is the only way you can have the Resurrection (from death) and the Life (eternal).

And yes, Christ was born out of the grave - never a truer Word spoken, as per reading ALL of Romans 6, but Romans 6:5 especially.

F2F

 

[QuantumBit]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts @face2face .

 

[face2face]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts @face2face .

Your welcome!...have you fallen like lightening