'Tophet' (Lake of Fire) is the Goddess 'Vesta'. She is the Moment of Conception.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
@QuantumBit “No man takes it from me” John 10:17-18.

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my lifeonly to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

So I guess you also don't believe Jesus's words here that the commending of his Spirit is the same as laying down of his life? If you don't believe he actually laid down his life you must also not believe God raise him up and restored it? The source of the authority is provided for you clearly that His Father gave him the command to end his life totally and completely and that in doing so His Father would take it up again.

What's odd in this conversation is I'm having to explain the words of Jesus as they are written and appear whereas you seem bent on "adding" to them.

I see why you are struggling though...that doctrine of immortal soulism destroys the atonement and the sacrifice of Christ is made of no affect.

The death of Christ is such a massive theme through the Epistles one can hardly imagine believing he didnt die.

Crazy.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Spirit is more than just 'air' @face2face
True, it's life, character, breathe etc. but never immortal as you would have it! And I know you cant prove it.
Did you like how the verse you quoted define Spirit for you? "He gave up his last breathe"
That's good Bible reading and in context also.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I'm guessing we dont have long Quantum as most find having their beliefs challenge, tiresome, and most give up. In fact, many Christians rarely, if ever, test their own beliefs.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Oh, the drama. Lol.

Here is how Death is defined in the Bible...
  • 1st Death = Death of the Body (Soul and Spirit are still intact)
  • 2nd Death = Death of the Body and Soul (Spirit is still intact)
That is all there is to it.
An old saying, poppycock!
Get back to the Scripture Quantum!
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
If we look at Romans 1:4 another instance where the Power is lost on you.

"and who through the Spirit of holiness (God's Holy Word) was appointed the Son of God in power BY his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 1:4

Again the appointment of his Sonship was in the Power of him being raised from the dead.

From verse 4 what would you say his Sonship is based on?

1. His mortal condemn nature as a man, or
2. Being raised from the dead

The Scripture will time and time again tell you its by his resurrection to life.

F2f
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Luke 20:37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Out of interest what is Jesus proving?

It's Hebrews 11:39-40 isn't it?

Hebrews 11:39 These were all (the faithful long dead) commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us (Gentiles) so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

You can see the point, I hope so!?

God is a God of the living and not the dead - a statement which is rendered useless if you believe everyone is alive regardless.

But what of those dead who are yet to rise?

They have not received what has been promised - verse 39.
AND yet to be made perfect - verse 40.

@QuantumBit Luke 20:37 is Jesus teaching you about the importance of the resurrection and how Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still await the restoration of their lives - a guarantee given by God who is willing to place them as His Surname!

F2F
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The realm of the dead is the grave....however if you believe it's something more happy to review your evidence.
The first thing to consider is the word "realm". Sounds like more than a whole in the ground.
Or unconscious nonexistence. Who needs a "realm" for that?

A search shows us that there are 29 references to the realm of the dead in the NIV translation.

Here's an example.

Isaiah 14:9 NIV
The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: QuantumBit

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And how do you throw death and the grave into this Lake of Fire?
I thought you were supporting a biblical view. What happened?
Who knows how? ???

Revelation 20:14 NET
Then[a] Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death—the lake of fire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: QuantumBit

QuantumBit

Active Member
Apr 18, 2023
246
86
28
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
True, it's life, character, breathe etc. but never immortal as you would have it! And I know you cant prove it.
Did you like how the verse you quoted define Spirit for you? "He gave up his last breathe"
That's good Bible reading and in context also.

I know more about the Spirit of God than most people on this planet. I guarantee you that. I have made several movies that go into great detail on this topic. Many folks have sent me letters expressing their gratitude.

The biggest obstacle Christians face is that they need to have a certain amount of Science, Chemistry, Physics and Biology background to process the deeper Revelations. I am not trying to boast, I am basically telling you that you should appreciate the fact that a Teacher is here. Do not be the 'Dunce' in the classroom that laughs and mocks at that which they do not understand. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God Within... the Microcosm of Life.

I will give you an example. This will most likely go over your head and you will probably will reject it out of pride, so I will post for the folks reading. I am not trying to be mean, it is just very obvious to me that you are not interested in learning or being corrected.

What is Breath?

Job 27:3
"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils"


OK, so Breath is associated with the Spirit of God and the Air we breathe. How do we quantify it?

The Air we breathe is mostly Nitrogen. This is the Key to understanding. The Spirit of God is associated with the Seventh Element in the Periodic Table. How?

We now know that Nitrogen is what the Word of God (Nucleobase) is made of. Nitrogen Bases. The Word of God is often synonymous with DNA in the Bible...

John 1:14
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."


DNA is often symbolized by the Sword...

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."


Our 'Sword of the Word' i.e., our DNA, is where our Spirit, Soul and Flesh are divided. Yes, this is quantifiable and tangible. It is not some 'mystical' idea that only God understands. We can separate them and understand them individually using the Scientific Method as well as the Bible. They are in agreement.

A 'Soul' is a Lifeform's Genome. Again it is the Word of God that is made flesh. Spirit is the Energy that quickens (Powers) it. Both live on after the first death. The Body and Flesh are the 'Joints, Marrow, Heart' etc. The 'Thoughts and intents of the Heart' is Spirit. Thus we have...
  • Body: Joints, Marrow, Heart, Flesh
  • Soul: Word of God/Genome.
  • Spirit: Quick and Powerful/Electromagnetism/Thoughts and Intents
Over and over, Spirit is Electromagnetism. That is why God is an 'all consuming fire'. Outside of our Universe, God exists as an infinite field of Energy and Information. Fire is Electromagnetism and Light as well as Information, Knowledge and Wisdom. Outside of our Universe is where the Godhead ('Three') becomes 'One'. It is Wave vs. Particle. We cannot see the Wave because it collapses. Thus God is 'invisible' to us...

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"


The Godhead is what everything is made of. It has three components. Science calls the Godhead 'Atoms'. Yes, that is what God is teaching us. God is 'in all'. The Holy Ghost is the Electron Cloud. The Word represents the Proton.

Now look...

Revelation 5:6
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."


The Slain Lamb represents the Blood of Jesus. The Blood is Life which is Soul (Genome) and Spirit (Energy).

Jesus represents the Word of God. Again, Nitrogen Bases. The Slain Lamb is representative of a Nucleobase. The Seed of Abraham. The Rock. The White Stone. The Genetic Code of the Kingdom of God. The Genome Scroll with Seven Seals.

Seven 'Eyes' represent Seven Electrons. Again, this is Nitrogen. They are 'sent forth into all the Earth' as the Air we breathe and the Nucleobases of all Life on the planet.

Ezekiel's Wheels are representative of Nitrogen Bases. The 'eyes' are Electrons...

Nitrogen.png
A Wheel within a Wheel is two Shells. Carbon (666), Nitrogen (777), Oxygen (888) etc. They are the building blocks of Life. Ezekiel was being shown the Word becoming Flesh through the lens of Quantum Mechanics. It is no longer a Mystery. We know what the Wheels are now.

The 'Eye' is Light. Again, Electromagnetism...

Matthew 6:22
"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."


Now we know what the 'Eyes' of Ezekiel's Wheels are. They are Light. They are Electrons. They are the Spirit of God. They give 'Power' to the 'Wheels' of the 'Chariot'.

The 'Stone with Seven Eyes' are Nucleobases. A new 'Engraving' or 'Genetic Code' will be applied to it...

SW7E - Sm.png

So please spare me of your "You don't understand!" nonsense. It is tiresome. Some of the the biggest Revelations the Bible has to offer are being revealed right before your very Eyes. Appreciate the gift you are being given here.

Again, Spirit/Energy is transferred or transformed, not destroyed...

"This law, first proposed and tested by Émilie du Châtelet, means that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another."

Conservation of energy - Wikipedia

Our entire Universe is being Powered by GOD, the IMMORTAL 'Consuming Fire' that exists outside of our 3D reality. I would suggest you get some basic education first before commenting on what Spirit is.
 
Last edited:

QuantumBit

Active Member
Apr 18, 2023
246
86
28
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What do you believe the Beast & False Prophet are?

And how do you throw death and the grave into this Lake of Fire?

The Godhead is...
  1. Father
  2. Word
  3. Holy Ghost
The Anti-Godhead is...
  1. Beast
  2. False Prophet
  3. Dragon
It is Matter vs. Antimatter.

Thus it is...
  1. Father vs. Beast
  2. Word vs. False Prophet
  3. Holy Ghost vs. Dragon
The Three are One.

When Death and Hell are finally thrown into the Lake of Fire, the Reincarnation Cycle ends. That is how you shut it off. It is like a 'divide by zero' error.

u-dun-goofed.jpg
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So God kills the bad people forever?
New thread you might be interested in.

 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The first thing to consider is the word "realm". Sounds like more than a whole in the ground.
Or unconscious nonexistence. Who needs a "realm" for that?

A search shows us that there are 29 references to the realm of the dead in the NIV translation.

Here's an example.

Isaiah 14:9 NIV
The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
So your post is a great example of cherry picking...if you continued to read the Prophets words he defines his figurative language with the actual reality.

Verse 11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.


A good habit to get into, is to read the text within its broader message.

Verse 15 also

Verse 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.

Pit = realm of the dead.

Enjoy
F2F
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I thought you were supporting a biblical view. What happened?
Who knows how? ???

Revelation 20:14 NET
Then[a] Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death—the lake of fire.
Honest!
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So your post is a great example of cherry picking...if you continued to read the Prophets words he defines his figurative language with the actual reality.

Verse 11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.


A good habit to get into, is to read the text within its broader message.

Verse 15 also

Verse 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.

Pit = realm of the dead.

Enjoy
F2F
@St. SteVen
Further to these truth's its rare in this forum for a person to act with integrity by acknowledging their poor use of Scripture to depend false teaching. The Lord experienced the same problems with the Pharisees ....they would send their fiery darts at him and he would reflect them back with absolute truth however they showed no repentance or humility.

You get what I mean right?

F2F
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Further to these truth's its rare in this forum for a person to act with integrity by acknowledging their poor use of Scripture to depend false teaching. The Lord experienced the same problems with the Pharisees ....they would send their fiery darts at him and he would reflect them back with absolute truth however they showed no repentance or humility.
Rare in this forum for a person to act with integrity? Okay...
Acknowledging poor use of Scripture to defend false teaching.? Say what?
The Lord experienced the same problems with the Pharisees? And...
They showed no repentance or humility? So...

Where are you going with this?
You get what I mean right?
Not really.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,777
636
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Rare in this forum for a person to act with integrity? Okay...
Acknowledging poor use of Scripture to defend false teaching.? Say what?
The Lord experienced the same problems with the Pharisees? And...
They showed no repentance or humility? So...

Where are you going with this?

Not really.
So you misquote Isaiah 14:9 by cherry picking a verse without context and apply your own false notions upon it - are shown the correct meaning and context and come back with nothing!

Yeah - I get it.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you misquote Isaiah 14:9 by cherry picking a verse without context and apply your own false notions upon it - are shown the correct meaning and context and come back with nothing!
What?
If I remember correctly, my only point was that the phrase "realm of the dead" is used 29 times in the NIV translation. True or false?

Is that enough context?