Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

Y'all can come up with your alternate interpretations...but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...as for me, I will take the scripture at face value and not abide by teachings about the scriptures but will allow the Holy Ghost to teach me with the scripture itself.

1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Isaiah 9:6 says to me plainly that the name of the son that was given shall be called among other things the everlasting Father...

I will take this word at face value...and my faith in the truth of the matter will stand as a testimony to you and as evidence of what is not seen by you for that you have accepted false teaching on the matter (see Hebrews 11:1).

 

[Dave L]

Y'all can come up with your alternate interpretations...but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...as for me, I will take the scripture at face value and not abide by teachings about the scriptures but will allow the Holy Ghost to teach me with the scripture itself.

1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Isaiah 9:6 says to me plainly that the name of the son that was given shall be called among other things the everlasting Father...

I will take this word at face value...and my faith in the truth of the matter will stand as a testimony to you and as evidence of what is not seen by you for that you have accepted false teaching on the matter (see Hebrews 11:1).

You need to balance scripture and not settle on any single unbalanced verse.

 

[farouk]

You need to balance scripture and not settle on any single unbalanced verse.

Well, exactly. "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little" (Isaiah 28.10). It's what searching the Scriptures is all about.

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to balance scripture and not settle on any single unbalanced verse.

See posts #1-#4 of this thread.

Shortcut: Trinity vs. Tritheism

 

[Dave L]

See posts #1-#4 of this thread.

Shortcut: Trinity vs. Tritheism

I shared this with Amadeus. Here's how my studies on the trinity look so far. See what you think.

The doctrine of the trinity is more than most can handle because God is not like anything we can try to compare him to. But as I meditate on the trinity my worship becomes awestruck in that God would let me see into his essence. We can see the trinity several places in the New Covenant. At Jesus' baptism, each member of the Godhead speaking of or spoken of by the others as distinctive individuals, yet all called God. It's there if you look for it. But this is what I've got from scripture so far about God.

He is the Spiritual and in himself he created time, space, and matter. All creatures great and small. And moves everything from the atom to every person or nation to fulfill his assigned plan for his glory. And where the material universe ends, God keeps going in all directions forever without beginning or end.

And within this single spiritual essence exist the Father person, who in love causes the Son person, who with the Father causes the Holy Spirit person in love. This static condition being eternal, time does not exist, so this does not involve change in God. But a constant eternal presence of the three persons.

The Holy Spirit and the Son love the Father person, the Father and the Holy Spirit love the Son person, and the Son and the Father love the Holy Spirit person. In scripture each speaks independently of the others and goes by YAHWEH in the Old Covenant, and Jesus Christ in the New Covenant.

If any can learn of this and meditate on it, it opens a whole new spirituality in worship.

 

[justbyfaith]

I shared this with Amadeus. Here's how my studies on the trinity look so far. See what you think.

The doctrine of the trinity is more than most can handle because God is not like anything we can try to compare him to. But as I meditate on the trinity my worship becomes awestruck in that God would let me see into his essence. We can see the trinity several places in the New Covenant. At Jesus' baptism, each member of the Godhead speaking of or spoken of by the others as distinctive individuals, yet all called God. It's there if you look for it. But this is what I've got from scripture so far about God.

He is the Spiritual and in himself he created time, space, and matter. All creatures great and small. And moves everything from the atom to every person or nation to fulfill his assigned plan for his glory. And where the material universe ends, God keeps going in all directions forever without beginning or end.

And within this single spiritual essence exist the Father person, who in love causes the Son person, who with the Father causes the Holy Spirit person in love. This static condition being eternal, time does not exist, so this does not involve change in God. But a constant eternal presence of the three persons.

The Holy Spirit and the Son love the Father person, the Father and the Holy Spirit love the Son person, and the Son and the Father love the Holy Spirit person. In scripture each speaks independently of the others and goes by YAHWEH in the Old Covenant, and Jesus Christ in the New Covenant.

If any can learn of this and meditate on it, it opens a whole new spirituality in worship.

I think you are missing the fact that there is one God.

I would suggest attempting to think of God as one for a period of time as you read the holy scriptures. When you come across scriptures that seem to think of Him as plural, try to think about how He is also one.

Otherwise you are in danger of having a concept of Him that is Tritheistic in nature.

But if you can see Him as being truly one Lord, you will not lose your salvation in the process; but I believe that the Lord will bring you back around to seeing how our one God also exists as three distinct individuals within the Godhead.

It is really very simple once you become able to accept it.

Perhaps you should receive Acts 2:38 baptism again, this time repenting and understanding the salvational value in it?

 

[justbyfaith]

that Is. 9:6 does not imply that Jesus is Jehovah God

It is clear from the holy scriptures that Jesus is Jehovah God (John 8:24, John 8:58, John 8:59, John 10:31-33, Exodus 3:14). He at the very least laid claim to Deity, and told the scribes and Pharisees (and by extension you and me) that if they did not believe in it, they would die in their sins.

 

[101G]

I would suggest attempting to think of God as one for a period of time as you read the holy scriptures. When you come across scriptures that seem to think of Him as plural, try to think about how He is also one.

the answer to that is, he's the equal "share" of himself in flesh. that right there eliminates any false thinking. scriptural support. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". form here is NATURE, which is a NOUN, and not a verb. as a noun it is identifying someone, and this someome is "equal" with the Spirit who is God, per John 4:24a.
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
3. (as an adverb) partly, in part.
4. (as a participle) participating (i.e. the act of taking part in).
5. a piece (i.e. a limited portion).
6. (of location) a district.
7. (of livelihood) an occupation (i.e. as ones' portion in life).
8. a portion in Jesus (see John 13:8).
KJV: behalf, course, coast, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort(-what)

another word for "portion" is "SHARE" this is why we have a "Father" the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. and a "Son", Spirit, Holy Spirit shared in flesh. this is the plurality of God as one person. simple.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

I think you are missing the fact that there is one God.

I would suggest attempting to think of God as one for a period of time as you read the holy scriptures. When you come across scriptures that seem to think of Him as plural, try to think about how He is also one.

Otherwise you are in danger of having a concept of Him that is Tritheistic in nature.

But if you can see Him as being truly one Lord, you will not lose your salvation in the process; but I believe that the Lord will bring you back around to seeing how our one God also exists as three distinct individuals within the Godhead.

It is really very simple once you become able to accept it.

Perhaps you should receive Acts 2:38 baptism again, this time repenting and understanding the salvational value in it?

Here's how it works. There is one spiritual dimension called God in scripture. Within that Spirit are three persons. The Father who generates the Son in love, who together generate the Holy Spirit person in love. So God is love in his very essence. Oneness has no love in God because the one spirit cannot love himself. So the saying God is love only works in a trinitarian setting.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here's how it works. There is one spiritual dimension called God in scripture. Within that Spirit are three persons. The Father who generates the Son in love, who together generate the Holy Spirit person in love. So God is love in his very essence. Oneness has no love in God because the one spirit cannot love himself. So the saying God is love only works in a trinitarian setting.

So, in your estimation, how many eternal Spirits are there? Is there one eternal Spirit, divided into three parts? Three eternal Spirits?

My Bible tells me that there is only One (Ephesians 4:4).

Also, maybe it was the love of the Lord that led Him to create us.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here's how it works. There is one spiritual dimension called God in scripture. Within that Spirit are three persons. The Father who generates the Son in love, who together generate the Holy Spirit person in love. So God is love in his very essence. Oneness has no love in God because the one spirit cannot love himself. So the saying God is love only works in a trinitarian setting.

And also, it should be clear from Isaiah 9:6 that the Father became the Son by taking on an added nature of human flesh.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would say that taking Isaiah 9:6 at face value is a major key in being able to come to an understanding of what the Trinity doctrine truly is.

 

[Dave L]

And also, it should be clear from Isaiah 9:6 that the Father became the Son by taking on an added nature of human flesh.

The Father cannot be love apart from having the Son to love.

 

[Dave L]

So, in your estimation, how many eternal Spirits are there? Is there one eternal Spirit, divided into three parts? Three eternal Spirits?

My Bible tells me that there is only One (Ephesians 4:4).

Also, maybe it was the love of the Lord that led Him to create us.

One eternal Spirit with three distinct persons all of the same spiritual substance.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Father cannot be love apart from having the Son to love.

And He has Him. The Son is a distinct Person from the Father; the experience of the Father is not the same as the experience of the Son.

 

[Dave L]

And He has Him. The Son is a distinct Person from the Father; the experience of the Father is not the same as the experience of the Son.

But if the Father turns into the Son God ceases to exist. Because you cannot have a Son without a Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

One eternal Spirit with three distinct persons all of the same spiritual substance.

That is a nice thing to tout and is technically true. What I am trying to get you to see is the understanding of how it all comes to be.

In saying that the eternal Spirit is three distinct Persons with the same spiritual substance, you are saying that each Person in the Trinity is essentially the same Spirit. Is this the case?

 

[Dave L]

That is a nice thing to tout and is technically true. What I am trying to get you to see is the understanding of how it all comes to be.

In saying that the eternal Spirit is three distinct Persons with the same spiritual substance, you are saying that each Person in the Trinity is essentially the same Spirit. Is this the case?

You're getting the drift.

 

[justbyfaith]

But if the Father turns into the Son God ceases to exist. Because you cannot have a Son without a Father.

No because the Father inhabits eternity; and the nature of eternity is that if someone dwells in it, they dwell in it eternally. Therefore in descending to become the Son, the Father wouldn't cease to exist in eternity.

 

[justbyfaith]

You're getting the drift.

Now, is the Spirit divided into three Persons? or, is each person the fulness of Deity?