"True" Israel?

[brightfame52]

The Church with the Gentiles in it, is Israel Elect, the Mystery revealed, for Isaiah foretold of this, even calling the Gentiles Gods chosen, a People formed for Himself, observe this Prophecy depicting the Gentiles Isa 43:19-21

19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

The New Thing is the Mystery of the Gentiles Eph 2:15

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The wilderness is the gentile nations of the world, also the beast of the field, dragons and owls refer to gentiles people

Acts 10:12

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

These are His special Chosen ones for Himself from the gentiles Acts 15:14-19

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

God said this people[Gentiles] He formed for Himself

Look what God said earlier in Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 5

 

[brightfame52]

The Church with the Gentiles in it, is Israel Elect, the Mystery revealed, for Isaiah foretold of this, even calling the Gentiles Gods chosen, a People formed for Himself, observe this Prophecy depicting the Gentiles Isa 43:19-21

19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

The New Thing is the Mystery of the Gentiles Eph 2:15

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The wilderness is the gentile nations of the world, also the beast of the field, dragons and owls refer to gentiles people

Acts 10:12

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

These are His special Chosen ones for Himself from the gentiles Acts 15:14-19

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

God said this people[Gentiles] He formed for Himself

Look what God said earlier in Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 15

 

[brightfame52]

Being a Jew!

What is a Jew ? I know the first thing that naturally comes to mind, is that a jew is a natural physical descendant of Abraham, then through Jacob. That is correct, however also a Jew is and has a Spiritual definition which stretches beyond ethnic boundaries. Paul brings this truth to light here Rom 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

A jew is anyone who God gives circumcision of the heart, no matter their ethnicity

Circumcision of heart is the New Birth God spoke of it earlier through Moses Deut 30:6

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Paul writing to gentiles who believed wrote Phil 3:3

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

As you can see another element in being a jew spiritually, being in Christ!

Paul was telling these gentile converts, beware of the concision, jewish false converts, for we are the jews, the circumcision in Christ who in Him we rejoice.

The Mystery revealed here is that being a jew is being in Christ.15

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Spiritual Israel now as it was under the OT since both Paul and Peter acknowledge the Grace that would come upon the Gentiles as being promises fulfilled that were made to Spiritual Israel 1 Pet 1:10-12

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Notice Vs 10 The Prophets prophesied of the Grace that should come unto you. Now this is the same dispensation of Grace Paul preached and declared to be unto the Gentiles Eph 3:1-6

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

See Peter was speaking of Salvation Grace proclaimed in the Gospel, and so was Paul. The Gospel Peter refered to in 1 Pet 1:12

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Is the same Gospel Paul refers to in Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Again the Grace Peter refers to in 1 Pet 1:10

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Is the same Grace Paul writes of in Eph 3:2

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 16

 

[brightfame52]

Also the same Gospel Grace and Salvation Peter preached with the Holy Ghost sent down from Heaven, he says the Angels desired to look into 1 Pet 1:12

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Paul wrote of the same thing, Gospel Grace and Salvation being that under the interest of the Angels, yet he calls them principalities and powers

Eph 3:8-10

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

 

[brightfame52]

The Old Testament Saints and the New Testament Saints are all part of the Body of Christ, the Church, because they are the Heirs, Heirs of God, Joint Heirs with Jesus Christ their Head Heb 11:9

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

The same heirs as in Rom 8 when discussing the Church Rom 8:16-17

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Also Rom 4:13-14

13 For the promise, that he[Abraham] should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Now Abraham could be heir of the world, only as He is in union with his Head and Joint heir with Jesus Christ Rom 8:17 16

 

[brightfame52]

The Church and Israel are the same since Christ sustains the same Headship over them both, revealing that they are the same body if people He was raised to the right hand of God in behalf of:

Acts 5:31

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Eph 1:20-23

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

In Acts 5:31 He is a Prince but in Eph 1:22 He is the Head, both titles are relatively the same, can are interchangeable. So Israel in Acts 5:31 is His Body the Church in Eph 1:22,23 16

 

[MatthewG]

I believe Jesus was "Israel" - Jacobs replacement right? Wasn't there a son named Israel?

Then he was forgotten. Jesus replaced that man because he failed.

Not a "nation earth" but he would created a "heavenly nation above with the City of God or City of Heaven" Kingdom of God.

Israel was a nation chosen by God but they failed. Jesus was the one whom would save the people but destruction would come upon the people removing all the former old testament ways they did things cause they were all destroyed in fire.

 

[PinSeeker]

I believe Jesus was "Israel" - Jacobs replacement right? Wasn't there a son named Israel?

Then he was forgotten. Jesus replaced that man because he failed.

Not a "nation earth" but he would created a "heavenly nation above with the City of God or City of Heaven" Kingdom of God.

Israel was a nation chosen by God but they failed. Jesus was the one whom would save the people but destruction would come upon the people removing all the former old testament ways they did things cause they were all destroyed in fire.

Jesus didn't replace Jacob, per se.

• Jesus is the second Adam, and succeeded where Adam failed. When Adam ate the fruit, he ~ and all humanity to come because of what he did ~ failed, and God promised a Savior... Jesus, of course, in Genesis 3:15. And of course that came to full fruition later on the cross and in the resurrection and now is an absolute surety to come to full fruition when Christ returns.
• Jacob was renamed Israel in Genesis 32:28, by God, of course, and was a shadow, or "type," of the true Israel to come, yes, Jesus. And we ~ the believing Israelites of old and those of us who have been born again of the Spirit ~ are all in Christ... and thus God's chosen people.

Types and shadows... that's how God spoke to His people in the Old Testament, and now He has spoken to us through His Son in these last days (Hebrews 1:1-2). So the larger point to be made in this is, the Bible is not two separate stories (the Old and New Testaments) but one story, from beginning to end. Jesus Himself said the entire Bible is about Him. I remember way back when I first realized that...

Grace and peace.

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel because Christ loved and died for the same exact people. Now most dispensationalist believe the Book of Revelation is written to the jews and not the Church, So they apply Rev 1:5-6 to the jews

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Now practically the same thing is said about Christ Church whom He Loved and gave Himself for her sins and washed Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 17

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel because through it as promised all the seed of Israel is Justified in the Lord Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified and shall glory.

Now we know that both jew and gentile believers are of the one seed of Abraham, the seed of Faith Rom 4:16-18

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be

Now God has Justified the seed of Israel by the Justifying both jew and gentile by Faith according to promise,

Rom 3:30

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Now this fulfills the promise of Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. 17

 

[brightfame52]

To be honest, since the death of Christ national israel lost its covenant distinction as the people of God, no longer being the physical descendant of national israel was representative of Gods people, this foretold by Jesus Himself Matt 21:43

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

This nation the Kingdom of God is given to is the Church, the Body of Christ which is comprised of all ethnic groups to include jews, africans, germans, hispanics and so forth, so Israel is being saved during the times of the gentiles when racial distinctions have been done away with in Christ. The Kingdom of God distinction that national israel had is gone, permanently and given permanently to the Church Matt 16:18

. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Again the Church Christ is building is that Spiritual Nation bringing forth the fruits thereof of the Kingdom of God taken from national ethnic israel.

 

[brightfame52]

We know that the Church is Israel by the testimony of the Apostle Paul, who was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and a Minister of the New Testament/Covenant Rom 11:13

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

2 Cor 3:6

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The Same New Covenant as here Jer 31:31

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

And notice his Testimony here Acts 28:20

For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

His New Covenant Ministry as the Apostle of the Gentiles is the Hope of Israel. Thats the Mystery the jews despised him for, and ever persecuted him ! 18

 

[Jack]

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;

And He did.

15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Israel is home to stay, in the Land of the Bible! Millions of jealous wannabees can't remove them.

 

[Jay Ross]

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;

And He did.

15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Israel is home to stay, in the Land of the Bible! Millions of jealous wannabees can't remove them.

I disagree with this translation but only with the translation of the Hebrew root word H:0127 in verse 15.

This is how I understand how these verses should read: -

Amos 9:13-15: -

13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,​

"When the ploughman shall overtake the reaper,​

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;​

The mountain {i.e. the religion based on Christ} shall drip with sweet wine,​

And all the hills {i.e. the other religious practices} shall melt and disappear. ​

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall repair the devasted and desolated places and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in My fertile soil/field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the fertile soil/field I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

This paraphrase/understanding is very different to the traditionally accepted translations.

Shalom