True or false?

[Episkopos]

If more would put their understanding of the scriptures in their own words wouldn't that help sort out what they actually believe?

It doesn't work out like that though...even though I agree with you. what I have found is that about half of believers don't recognize the truth as such without the quotations and exact wordings. These will say...that is unbiblical if you reverse the wording or throw in another verse that says the same thing!It doesn't compute because of a lack of understanding of the content of the verses.

There is a phenomenon...a religious (and political) whereby the mind can be conditioned to think along pre-determined lines. The North Vietnamese didn't always succeed in their brainwashing of Western prisoners...but sometimes they did. Their techniques worked for some.

Now imagine every week for decades and preachers saying.."tell your neighbour...you are seated in heavenly places"...and this kind of thing over and over.
Now ask a person who has succumbed to this thought experiment...what does it look like to be seated above the world? They will just look at you funny...but continue to believe that in some way, somehow, they are seated in heavenly places. They just can't tell you how.

The Communists learned a great deal in mind control through religion....because politics WAS their religion.

 

[CoreIssue]

I rewrite them so that you don't understand them. What you don't realize is that you don't understand the verses I am paraphrasing.

You can read a verse like "we are seated in heavenly places in Christ"...and you agree because you recognize the verse...or you see the bible reference so you nod your head. But if I say..."those who are actually in Christ are translated into heavenly places" you will call that gnostic and unbiblical because I left out "seated" and there's no chapter and verse quotations. (you believe that the quotations give the words a special power...that the meaning of the words themselves cannot)

That is arrogant

 

[CoreIssue]

It doesn't work out like that though...even though I agree with you. what I have found is that about half of believers don't recognize the truth as such without the quotations and exact wordings. These will say...that is unbiblical!

There is a phenomenon...a religious (and political) whereby the mind can be conditioned to think along pre-determined lines. The North Vietnamese didn't always succeed in their brainwashing of Western prisoners...but sometimes they did. Their techniques worked for some.

Now imagine every week for decades and preachers saying.."tell your neighbour...you are seated in heavenly places"...and this kind of thing over and over.
Now ask a person who has succumbed to this thought experiment...what does it look like to be seated above the world? They will just look at you funny...but continue to believe that in some way, somehow, they are seated in heavenly places. They just can't tell you how.

The Communists learned a great deal in mind control through religion....because politics WAS their religion.

That is arrogant

 

[Episkopos]

I go with what the Bible says.

Listen to all and check it against the Scriptures for validity. Then either ignore it or take it to yourself for knowledge and understanding.

It also says be prepared with an answer.

So, we need to know it in our brains and our hearts and then be able to to convey it to others.

It is a never-ending process. I have been doing it for 58 years and see no end in sight. The truth is so complex, yet simple, we just never get it completely right.

What about letting the Holy Spirit give us a spontaneous inspiration...as it says to do in the bible??? The best defense of the truth of the bible is it's practice. Do you not agree?

 

[Episkopos]

That is arrogant

You must consider who I am speaking to and trying to reach. I am trying to enter into your way of thinking being all things to all men. If you see arrogance then you are looking in the mirror. I talk to YOU this way because you ridicule what I say normally as gnostic. I normally ignore your posts....because there's no way to communicate with you.

 

[Marymog]

While we were out in town today we were approached by two Mormon missionaries. We told them we had been born-again Christians for a long time and my husband asked if they believed they would go to heaven. They told us that their place in heaven had to be earned through good works. What do you believe? True or false? Personally I believe it to be false and they are spreading a different gospel.

It takes FAITH and WORKS.

 

[CoreIssue]

You must consider who I am speaking to and trying to reach. I am trying to enter into your way of thinking being all things to all men. If you see arrogance then you are looking in the mirror. I talk to YOU this way because you ridicule what I say normally as gnostic.

I have to consider who you are.

 

[CoreIssue]

What about letting the Holy Spirit give us a spontaneous inspiration...as it says to do in the bible??? The best defense of the truth of the bible is it's practice. Do you not agree?

We are told to study the Bible and listen to the Holy Spirit.

If there is a conflict between the two, we have to find out why.

Are we misunderstanding the Bible or is it a demon speaking to us, not the Holy Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

I have to consider who you are.

You can't. You have a cardboard image of something you're projecting onto me. Admit it. You have no idea what I'm talking about.

I can explain your position very easily. But you can't for a moment say what is in my mind.

 

[Episkopos]

We are told to study the Bible and listen to the Holy Spirit.

If there is a conflict between the two, we have to find out why.

Are we misunderstanding the Bible or is it a demon speaking to us, not the Holy Spirit.

Or just your church conditioning. A doctrine can be of demons without the demons themselves speaking. The devil has many ministers. And these appeal to the desire for salvation in the outer man. So his ministers are HUGELY successful.

They say a lie goes around the world twice while the truth is still putting his shoes on.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

While we were out in town today we were approached by two Mormon missionaries. We told them we had been born-again Christians for a long time and my husband asked if they believed they would go to heaven. They told us that their place in heaven had to be earned through good works. What do you believe? True or false? Personally I believe it to be false and they are spreading a different gospel.

Actual member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints here--- a "Mormon" if you insist on the nickname.

Clarifying LDS Christian beliefs here: we are saved by having faith in Jesus Christ, our Savior, the Son of God. It is a gift. The idea that you could some how "earn" salvation is downright laughable. You're saved by faith.

Real saving faith does result in change for a person-- bearing good fruit, chichis something everyone can agree on. Real faith is not the cheap grace of superficially saying "I believe in Christ" and then continuing about your same sinful ways (that would be a barren tree). Real faith bears fruit.

Where confusion comes in: Protestants tend to classify (1) the seed as being salvation and (2) the fruit as sanctification. LDS Christians (and most other Christians too) don't make such a distinction and see it all as one package of being a disciple of Christ. Not understanding that can cause lot of confusion all around: non-Protestants thinking that Protestants believe in cheap grace, and Protestants thinking non-Protestants believing in works salvation.

 

[tzcho2]

If more would put their understanding of the scriptures in their own words wouldn't that help sort out what they actually believe?

Problem is , so many have beliefs that are not what the scripture says. God did not write the scripture so people could interpret it according to Their own personal beliefs.

 

[Mayflower]

While we were out in town today we were approached by two Mormon missionaries. We told them we had been born-again Christians for a long time and my husband asked if they believed they would go to heaven. They told us that their place in heaven had to be earned through good works. What do you believe? True or false? Personally I believe it to be false and they are spreading a different gospel.

Yes grace alone. Out of love I serve Christ.

 

[tzcho2]

Or just your church conditioning. A doctrine can be of demons without the demons themselves speaking. The devil has many ministers. And these appeal to the desire for salvation in the outer man. So his ministers are HUGELY successful.

They say a lie goes around the world twice while the truth is still putting his shoes on.

They also say "an apple a day keeps the doctor away"
I don't personally follow any church's/ or protestant denominations teachings, though I am in agreement with some of them. By grace, I came to understand that the Bible IS God-inspired & literally means what it says and then I looked for an assembly of believers that took the Bible as the inerrant , authoritative word of God & wanted a Pastor who taught it as such. The scripture is not to be spiritualized , seen as only metaphorical, or fitted to our own religious or spiritual views & preferences.

 

[Pearl]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

That's what I told those two young men. I told them Jesus paid the price so we didn't have to - the full price - not a down payment.

 

[Pearl]

Yes grace alone. Out of love I serve Christ.

Me too.

 

[Pearl]

Clarifying LDS Christian beliefs here: we are saved by having faith in Jesus Christ, our Savior, the Son of God. It is a gift. The idea that you could some how "earn" salvation is downright laughable. You're saved by faith.

And what about going to heaven? Do the LDS teach that it is by works? If not then your missionaries aren't up to the job if they are saying that it is.

 

[Pearl]

Some who say that they believe in Christ are not following what the Bible says. Mormonism is completely unlike Christianity.

I read a brilliant description of Mormonism a few weeks ago and now I can't find it again. I think it was on www.crosswalk.com but can't be certain. It was a real eye opener. I know they have a big following but it is a different gospel.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And what about going to heaven? Do the LDS teach that it is by works?

It is by real faith. Real faith that is a gift from God, and causes a person to move & change. Not the cheap grace stuff.

If not then your missionaries aren't up to the job if they are saying that it is.

I have no doubt that when you told them "we are saved by grace", that what they heard was you advocating for cheap grace. Such a misunderstanding (thinking Protestants believe in cheap grace) is tragically common among LDS Christians. In order to be heard and understood here, a person really needs to talk about the seed AND the fruits.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I read a brilliant description of Mormonism a few weeks ago and now I can't find it again. I think it was on www.crosswalk.com but can't be certain. It was a real eye opener. I know they have a big following but it is a different gospel.

Sadly, most "eye openers" are usually going for shock value, as opposed to being accurate as to what LDS Christians actually believe. Misconceptions are rampant.