True Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

Also, Christ's emptying of Himself had to do with the fact that He took on an added human nature; not that He ceased to be fully God, but that He took on a nature that is by definition finite; and that therefore in His finite human nature He was emptied of the attributes of Deity, yet in His God-nature He continued to be fully God. He confined His God-nature to be limited by His human nature, is what happened.

 

[Grailhunter]

The one God formula for the Trinity was a clever and necessary deception, but the scriptures do not support the one God formula in word and or actions. I have provided a long explanation with a couple hundred scriptures and explanations that proves it to be wrong. Still at the time clever and necessary because it stop most of the disagreements under penalty of death, and in process unified Christianity with the backing all the muscle it needed to survive.

Yeshua, Yahweh, "Holy Spirit" The absurdity is debating to an exact understanding....the unity cannot be comprehended. The individually is demonstrated from cover to cover. The storyline of the Gospels testifies of three Gods working together. Father and the Son. The Father and the Son referring to each other as Father and Son. The Father and the Son talking to each other. The Father giving authority to the Son. The Son not doing His will but the Will of the Father. Hands down the oneness concept does not fit into the scriptures

Anytime you see a cliché or term that does not appear in the Bible you should be skeptical...."Trinity" is not in the Bible. "Original Sin" is another, "unpardonable sin" is another. "Infallibility of church leaders" is another. Usually things someone in time wanted people to believe.

 

[justbyfaith]

You would do well to believe that there is one God (James 2:19).

 

[Grailhunter]

You would do well to believe that there is one God (James 2:19).

Hey there JBF
Why would I want to believe a lie?

 

[justbyfaith]

Hey there JBF
Why would I want to believe a lie?

It's no lie...

Even the shema of the Old Testament establishes the fact that there is one God.

And, you seem to want to draw out my words so that I also quote the scripture that I previously only referenced:

Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[Cooper]

yes, I know this, but the discussion is "How is Jesus the Father as well as the Son" at the same time.
that the elephant in the room.

PICJAG

God in heaven who is spirit was present in the Son, both in the Spirit (the invisible God) and in the male side of the flesh. Mary only contributed her own DNA which was miniscule when compared to the might and power of the Father.
.

 

[Grailhunter]

It's no lie...

Even the shema of the Old Testament establishes the fact that there is one God.

And, you seem to want to draw out my words so that I also quote the scripture that I previously only referenced:

Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Even the shema of the Old Testament establishes the fact that there is one God.
Bingo. That is because their was only one God in the Old Testament. You are not a Jew are you?
They did not know Yeshua. They did not know the Holy Spirit. The reason you find it easy to believe in more then one God in a religion that would kill you if you named another...ooops that is why they wanted Yeshua killed. The reason it is is easy is believe more than one God was in the Old Testament is because the scriptures that name Yahweh specifically 6,000 times were tampered with and His name removed and replaced with the word God or Lord. Over 28,000 modifications to remove Yahweh's name! Who do you think would want that?
1. God the Father 2. God the Son 3. God the "Holy Spirit"
1. Yeshua 2. Yahweh 3. "Holy Spirit"
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 If you got 1 you have to go back to grade school.

Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

And you have to hate your mother and father...you have to be careful in forming a religious belief on just a few scriptures, particular when they are better clarified with several dozen scriptures. Near to a couple hundred prove this wrong. You know I wrote a whole long article on that....Christ own words explain the whole oneness thing and it is not this.

 

[justbyfaith]

1 + 1 + 1 = 3 If you got 1 you have to go back to grade school.

I also learned multiplication in grade school.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

That is sound mathematics.

But you must have a trick up your sleeve; because you must have known that this was coming.

 

[Grailhunter]

I also learned multiplication in grade school.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

That is sound mathematics.

But you must have a trick up your sleeve; because you must have known that this was coming.

lol God Bless

 

[justbyfaith]

lol God Bless

 

[Cooper]

Even the shema of the Old Testament establishes the fact that there is one God.
Bingo. That is because their was only one God in the Old Testament. You are not a Jew are you?
They did not know Yeshua. They did not know the Holy Spirit. The reason you find it easy to believe in more then one God in a religion that would kill you if you named another...ooops that is why they wanted Yeshua killed. The reason it is is easy is believe more than one God was in the Old Testament is because the scriptures that name Yahweh specifically 6,000 times were tampered with and His name removed and replaced with the word God or Lord. Over 28,000 modifications to remove Yahweh's name! Who do you think would want that?
1. God the Father 2. God the Son 3. God the "Holy Spirit"
1. Yeshua 2. Yahweh 3. "Holy Spirit"
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 If you got 1 you have to go back to grade school.

Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

And you have to hate your mother and father...you have to be careful in forming a religious belief on just a few scriptures, particular when they are better clarified with several dozen scriptures. Near to a couple hundred prove this wrong. You know I wrote a whole long article on that....Christ own words explain the whole oneness thing and it is not this.

Christians worship the same ONE God of the Jews, as they do, the I AM. Unless they have a different Father that is, see John 8:44. He was with the Israelites in the wilderness in one form or another, and he revealed himself in human form as well, but you reject him. God is ONE whatever form He takes.
.

 

[Grailhunter]

Christians worship the same ONE God of the Jews, as they do, the I AM. Unless they have a different Father that is, see John 8:44. He was with the Israelites in the wilderness in one form or another, and he revealed himself in human form as well, but you reject him. God is ONE whatever form He takes.
.

Christians worship God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Count them...three Gods.
Jew worshipped God the Father and got Yeshua crucified because He proclaimed He was the Son of God.
Again Christ explained the oneness thing and it is not one God.

The whole storyline of the Gospels show two Gods working very closely for the salvation of man.
God so loved the word that He gave His only begotten Son....He did not say He begot Himself or that He came Himself. There are nearly 200 scriptures that debunk this oneness formula, in words and actions. Three Gods divinely united, not one God. Three names. Three wills defined. Three presences defined. Yeshua saved us through His sacrificial death on the cross...not His Father. Yeshua rose from dead, not His Father. Yeshua ascended to His Father...not Himself. What you believe is a incorrect.

There should be a name for forming religious beliefs from just a few scriptures while ignoring dozens and dozen of other scriptures as well as the whole storyline of the Gospels. The word Trinity or Godhead does not appear in the scriptures but Godhead is more accurate.

 

[Cooper]

There should be a name for forming religious beliefs from just a few scriptures while ignoring dozens and dozen of other scriptures as well as the whole storyline of the Gospels. The word Trinity or Godhead does not appear in the scriptures but Godhead is more accurate.

Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Who is it that dwells in Jesus?
.

 

[Grailhunter]

Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Who is it that dwells in Jesus?
.

Ahhh aren't you sweet! You found it the KJV. It does not help, the word Godhead does not appear in the actual scriptures. One of may hundreds of errors in the KJV....You will also find in the KJV that it is a very serious sin to debate and you will read about a King in the Old Testament that had a chest full of milk.

Either way and like I said, I prefer the term Godhead.

Who is it that dwells in Jesus?
Well if you believe in the bread and wine ritual, we abide in Yeshua and He abides in us.
If you are looking for a deity thing then...For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form
But it does not say He is the only one.

 

[Cooper]

Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Who is it that dwells in Jesus?
.

Colossians 2:9
(ASV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
(CEV) God lives fully in Christ.
(ERV) I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth.
(ESV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(ESV+) For R18in him the whole fullness of deity dwells R19bodily,
(GNB) For the full content of divine nature lives in Christ, in his humanity,
(ISV) because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.
(KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(KJV-1611) For in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily.
(MKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
(NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
(NLT) For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
(NRSV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(NRSVA) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(TLB) For in Christ there is all of God in a human body;
.

 

[Cooper]

2320 /theótēs ("fullness of deity") expresses God's "essential (personal) deity, as belonging to Christ" (WS, 906). 2320 (theótēs) focuses on Christ physically embodying the Godhead through His incarnation and shown throughout His perfect life of faith (cf. Heb 12:2).

[For more on Christ's full deity, see 2316 /theós ("God") at Sidebar A.]

Strong's Greek: 2320. θεότης (theotés) -- deity
.

 

[Grailhunter]

Colossians 2:9
(ASV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
(CEV) God lives fully in Christ.
(ERV) I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth.
(ESV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(ESV+) For R18in him the whole fullness of deity dwells R19bodily,
(GNB) For the full content of divine nature lives in Christ, in his humanity,
(ISV) because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.
(KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(KJV-1611) For in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily.
(MKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
(NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
(NLT) For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
(NRSV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(NRSVA) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(TLB) For in Christ there is all of God in a human body;
.

My point is that Godhead is not in the scriptures regardless of how many errant translations you find.
Again and again...Yeshua is a God, but He is not the only one. He has a Father and His only designation is Son, not just another God. And God does not have a Son in the Old Testament. And Again Yeshua explained this oneness thing and it is not about a God talking to Himself.
So what is your point?

 

[Grailhunter]

2320 /theótēs ("fullness of deity") expresses God's "essential (personal) deity, as belonging to Christ" (WS, 906). 2320 (theótēs) focuses on Christ physically embodying the Godhead through His incarnation and shown throughout His perfect life of faith (cf. Heb 12:2).

[For more on Christ's full deity, see 2316 /theós ("God") at Sidebar A.]

Strong's Greek: 2320. θεότης (theotés) -- deity
.

So your point?

 

[Cooper]

So your point?

Not my point, the Bibles point. Jesus is God with us.

Matthew 1:23
(ASV) Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.
(CEV) "A virgin will have a baby boy, and he will be called Immanuel," which means "God is with us."
(ERV) "The virgin will be pregnant and will give birth to a son. They will name him Immanuel." (Immanuel means "God with us.")
(ESV) “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
(ESV+) R4“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name R5Immanuel” (which means, God R6with us).
(GNB) "A virgin will become pregnant and have a son, and he will be called Immanuel" (which means, "God is with us").
(ISV) "See, a virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel," which means, "God with us."
(KJV) Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
(KJV+) Behold,G2400 a virginG3933 shall be with child,G2192 G1722 G1064 andG2532 shall bring forthG5088 a son,G5207 andG2532 they shall callG2564 hisG846 nameG3686 Emmanuel,G1694 whichG3739 being interpretedG3177 is,G2076 GodG2316 withG3326 us.G2257
(KJV-1611) Behold, a Uirgin shall be with childe, and shall bring foorth a sonne, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted, is, God with vs.)
(MKJV) "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which being interpreted is, God with us.
(NKJV) "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which is translated, "God with us."
(NLT) “Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God is with us.’”
(NRSV) "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means, "God is with us."
(NRSVA) "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means, "God is with us."
(TLB) ‘Listen! The virgin shall conceive a child! She shall give birth to a Son, and he shall be called “Emmanuel” (meaning “God is with us”).’”
.

 

[Cooper]

.
Tell me truthfully Grailhunter, why do you call yourself a Christian if you do not believe Christ is God?