True Trinity.

[Grailhunter]

Acts Chapter 9 is about Paul, then Saul conversion correct. well Grailhunter made this statement,
,
and then he said, this,

well this event here in Acts chapter 9 will disprove Grailhunter assumption of more than ONE God, and that the "Lord" is Yeshua only.

and at the same time disprove your belief of a God left in Heaven and he's all God in flesh that came. but Acts chapter 9 destroys all those notions, because the one whom you say inhabits eternity is JESUS the Christ, and it will reveals who it is in Isaiah 57:15. ...... (smile). so "choose" any scripture verse to support any Idea of a ONE GOD who inhabits eternity alone.... and we say it is JESUS Christ.

NOW back to our original question, "was it the "Lord", or the one whom Grailhunter calls "Yahweh", or as he say is "God", or who many say is the "Father"..... now study the EVENT that happen to saul on the Damascus Road and tell us who did he encounter?

PICJAG.

lol I have a lot of fun with people that do not understand the scriptures. How many time have I referenced the Living Word of God. I keep telling them, when you open a Bible what "you" believe..."you" will find in the scriptures...when "you" come to the scriptures with a character..."you" will find "your" character in the scriptures. "You" may have to step over a hundred scriptures to fine the ones "you" want to support what "you" believe. But "you" can find them.

At times for the fun of it I will see people debating on this forum, dry humor I have, I watch them chase their tales for a while. Using scriptures like bullets, each deflecting each other scriptures...each explaining away or disregarding the scriptures that the other person presents. So then I will provide each side with all of the scriptures that support both beliefs. And even then they do not get it! Beliefs override scriptures. But still can they not notice?! Blind cannot lead blind.

So it you wish we can to this. You define your belief and I will define my belief and then we will see who can produce the most scriptures. I believe there are 3 Gods...God the Father...God the Son...God the Holy Spirit that are divinely united. Trinity = tri=unity not Tri-one. Three Gods with separate minds, separate wills, separate characters, separate presence in such a fashion that they can sit next to each other on thrones and ask each other questions and describe their own thoughts.

So you gather your scriptures and it is a one for one presentation. It will start out with the "My Father" scriptures. Yeshua the Son of God referring to His Father...Yahweh as His Father in heaven. There are around 50 of these scriptures. Now you produce 50 scriptures that support your belief. I have about 150 more but I do not think you can come up with 50 because your belief is false. Get ready, get set, Go!

 

[101G]

first thanks for the reply, and second, we will get to the "My Father", but first lets get Act chapter 9 out of the way first... ok. well you said this,

I believe there are 3 Gods...God the Father...God the Son...God the Holy Spirit that are divinely united. Trinity = tri=unity not Tri-one. Three Gods with separate minds, separate wills, separate characters, separate presence in such a fashion that they can sit next to each other on thrones and ask each other questions and describe their own thoughts.

First thanks for the reply, second, this answer means you have no answer..... (smile)... right. oh don't worry we'll answer it for you. that first mistake right here in Acts is having 3 Gods, when God said there is no "God" beside me, (isaiah 45:5). well lets see if it's three Gods as you say.

we asked, "Who" encounted Saul on the Damascus road". and the Scriptures said this,
Acts 9:1 "And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,"
Acts 9:2 "And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem."
Acts 9:3 "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:"
Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"
Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

so we see from scripture we see that the Lord Jesus/Yeshua encounted Saul.
#1. Jesus/Yeshua is the "Lord".

now Grailhunter, listen carefully,
Acts 9:10 "And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."
Acts 9:11 "And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,"
Acts 9:12 "And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight."
Acts 9:13 "Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:"
Acts 9:14 "And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name."
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

so it was the "Lord", Jesus/Yeshua that encounted Saul and chose him correct?

do you agree with the scriptures yes or No? Just answer yes or no for I'm not yet finish, but do you agree with the scriptures so far, YES or NO?

PICJAG

 

[Grailhunter]

first thanks for the reply, and second, we will get to the "My Father", but first lets get Act chapter 9 out of the way first... ok. well you said this,

First thanks for the reply, second, this answer means you have no answer..... (smile)... right. oh don't worry we'll answer it for you. that first mistake right here in Acts is having 3 Gods, when God said there is no "God" beside me, (isaiah 45:5). well lets see if it's three Gods as you say.

we asked, "Who" encounted Saul on the Damascus road". and the Scriptures said this,
Acts 9:1 "And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,"
Acts 9:2 "And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem."
Acts 9:3 "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:"
Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"
Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

so we see from scripture we see that the Lord Jesus/Yeshua encounted Saul.
#1. Jesus/Yeshua is the "Lord".

now Grailhunter, listen carefully,
Acts 9:10 "And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."
Acts 9:11 "And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,"
Acts 9:12 "And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight."
Acts 9:13 "Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:"
Acts 9:14 "And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name."
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

so it was the "Lord", Jesus/Yeshua that encounted Saul and chose him correct?

do you agree with the scriptures yes or No? Just answer yes or no for I'm not yet finish, but do you agree with the scriptures so far, YES or NO?

PICJAG

First you need to define your belief. Your scriptures say what they say. But not about oneness.
Secondly I am looking for scriptures that say directly or indirectly that God the Father and God the Son are one person...or one...something like that. Yeshua is a God even though He does not refer to Himself specifically as a God...as a God.
It is a well established fact that the Apostles referred to Him as Lord. It is a well established fact that the Apostles knew He was a God. I am looking for scriptures that directly or indirectly say that Yeshua and Yahweh are one...or they are the same person. Need 60 of them. The My Father scriptures specifically are indicating a distinction between God the Father and God the Son out of Christ's own mouth, and sometimes indicate Yeshua saying My Father in heaven while He is on earth.

 

[101G]

First you need to define your belief. Your scriptures say what they say. But not about oneness.

thanks for your reply, and I believe I did that, but if not, second, hold your horses, I'm a "Diversified Oneness" and I have nothing do with any pentecostal oneness, or any other oneness that believe like us, (meaning the Lord Jesus and the apostles, and all the church member who has obtain eternal life). .

Secondly I am looking scriptures that say directly or indirectly that God the Father and God the Son are one person...or one...something like that. Yeshua is a God even though He does not refer to Himself specifically as a God...as a God.

well lets expand our knowledge of this incident on the road to Damascus and see if the Lord jesus is God or not. see, there is a second account of this same encounter in Acts chapter 22 when Paul, now was recounting the encounter, we pick up the action at, Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,"
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him."
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

well Grailhunter, did you not say that God/yahweh, whom you calls Father chose Saul? is this correct? because is not the GOD of the father is the one who you calls God/yahweh. so again Grailhunter, I ask, "who encountered, and chose Saul.

#1. was it the "Lord", JESUS/YESHUA, or

#2. was it the one whom you say is "GOD", yahweh, the one whom you calls the "Father?". well who is it that encountered Saul here and "chose" him?

well Grailhunter, what's your answer is going to be, #1, or #2. read both carefully before you answer.


Also to all the trinitarians who are watching from the sideline or any oneness Pentecostal, you may answer also. or anyone else who have a different belief.

PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

thanks for your reply, and I believe I did that, but if not, second, hold your horses, I'm a "Diversified Oneness" and I have nothing do with any pentecostal oneness, or any other oneness that believe like us, (meaning the Lord Jesus and the apostles, and all the church member who has obtain eternal life). .

well lets expand our knowledge of this incident on the road to Damascus and see if the Lord jesus is God or not. see, there is a second account of this same encounter in Acts chapter 22 when Paul, now was recounting the encounter, we pick up the action at, Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,"
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him."
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

well Grailhunter, did you not say that God/yahweh, whom you calls Father chose Saul? is this correct? because is not the GOD of the father is the one who you calls God/yahweh. so again Grailhunter, I ask, "who encountered, and chose Saul.

#1. was it the "Lord", JESUS/YESHUA, or

#2. was it the one whom you say is "GOD", yahweh, the one whom you calls the "Father?". well who is it that encountered Saul here and "chose" him?

well Grailhunter, what's your answer is going to be, #1, or #2. read both carefully before you answer.


Also to all the trinitarians who are watching from the sideline or any oneness Pentecostal, you may answer also. or anyone else who have a different belief.

PICJAG.

#1. was it the "Lord", JESUS/YESHUA, or
Not looking for the specifics of who was on the road. I am look for proof that all three Gods are one person or whatever your belief is. I am not saying you cannot find scriptures to that effect. But this is how you get 30,000 denominations because they key on a few scriptures and ignore the rest, not taking the big picture into account. So define specifically your formula for the Trinity.

 

[101G]

first thanks for the reply, you said, #1. well we are going to reduce these 30,000 denominations to one by the BIBLE. is there anyone else who want to comment?

Grailhunter just answered #1, but he have a problem. if yahweh is the "GOD" of our fathers then Jesus cannot be because the "Lord"/Son ONLY, but God the FATHER also. scriptures plainly states.... Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

well according to Grailhunter, by choosing #1, he is saying that JESUS is the Father, because Ananias clearly said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee which eliminates one of his, Grailhunter, Gods. and for any trinitarians that's deadly, because it eliminates one of their persons also.

so I'll wait 10 min before I give the verdic, and if any want to respond feel free to. if not then one must agree with the answer Grailhunter gave and be in ERROR of that belief.

10 min. starting now.

PICJAC

 

[Grailhunter]

first thanks for the reply, you said, #1. well we are going to reduce these 30,000 denominations to one by the BIBLE. is there anyone else who want to comment?

Grailhunter just answered #1, but he have a problem. if yahweh is the "GOD" of our fathers then Jesus cannot be because the "Lord"/Son ONLY, but God the FATHER also. scriptures plainly states.... Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

well according to Grailhunter, by choosing #1, he is saying that JESUS is the Father, because Ananias clearly said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee which eliminates one of his, Grailhunter, Gods. and for any trinitarians that's deadly, because it eliminates one of their persons also.

so I'll wait 10 min before I give the verdic, and if any want to respond feel free to. if not then one must agree with the answer Grailhunter gave and be in ERROR of that belief.

10 min. starting now.

PICJAC

The fact that God the Father exists is well established.
Is there a reason why you cannot define what you believe on this topic?
You owe me 60 scriptures now. Found 60 My Father scripture....some say MY Father this or My Father that but some defining what His Father did in the Old Testament....not Him...not Yeshua.

 

[101G]

ok times up. Acts 22:14 clearly states that the "God of our father" is the OT God who created ... "All things" well Grailhunter that seals the deal on your three Gods, but there is icying on the cake. JESUS, the "Lord" who you say is distinct or different from the one whom you call "GOD", is "GOD"... (smile), listen. for there is a third account of the same encounter, this time Paul give us more detail when he is before king Agrippa. listen,
Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

see that word "MAKE", it is the Greek word,
G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

this is the exact same word Ananias used in Act 22:14 as to who "chose" saul.

so Grailhunter, there is you direct proof that JESUS is "Lord" and "GOD", who is the "Father", and the "Son. did you not hear, Thomas, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

PICJAG

 

[101G]

The fact that God the Father exists is well established.

yes, it is establish, and the "Father" name is JESUS.......

PICJAG.

now onto your "MY Father" and "My Son"........

I love this.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

now that you know that Jesus is both Father and Son, now lets explain it. once again, knowing this that Jesus is the Spirit/SHARED in flesh as the "diversity" of HIMSELF, as or in likeness as a man in "NATURAL FLESH", on earth, saying, "MY FATHER", he is simplying saying "MY SPIRIT" which is in heaven, or my Spirit which is in ETERNITY, (did you get that JBF?)... . and when Jesus who is Spirit in Heaven/ETERNITY, say, "MY SON", as his "diversity", he is saying "MY BODY" which is on earth in Time and Spatial....... oh how so easy. JBF I hope you read this.

now lets give the scripture to prove this out. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
while on earth in a body, "diversified", talking with Nicodemus, at the very same time he is in Heaven/ETERNITY. BINGO, and only "diversity" can explain how GOD occupy Time and Space, and at the same time in ETERNITY. what a mighty God we serve.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Now, lets eliminate these "ASSUMPTIONS". Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"

one more scripture,

Luke 3:22 "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

did one notice that the Spirit of God is the Holy Ghost. but I thought many say that the Holy Ghost is a separate Person?

but did not Job say, Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."


that's the LORD JESUS, the Holy Ghost at Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:26 & 27 making man. as we been saying, Jesus is the Spirit, the Holy Ghost.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

for those who might not understand fully, let's make it plain.

The possessive “MY”, and the genitive “OF”

This prepositions, “of”, as in the Spirit “of” God, what do it mean and how is it used. My source, the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. “of” translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction.

the “MY”, which is possessive, as in “MY FATHER”, What is the difference between genitive and possessive? As adjectives the difference between possessive and genitive is that possessive is of or pertaining to ownership or possession while genitive is (grammar) of or pertaining to that case which expresses origin or possession it corresponds to the possessive case in english.

simplying saying, the Spirit “of” God is “GOD”. just as the spirit of 101G is 101G. BINGO.

and "my" hand or "my"ARM" is me. that's "my" hand and "my" ARM.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

now knowing that the Spirit "of" God is God, and the Spirit "of" God is the Holy Ghost, see, (Matthew 3:16 & Luke 3:22, and compare), well that just eliminated two of the three so-called persons out the trinity. for the Holy Ghost whom many say is a third Paeson is actually the one whom many calls "Father", the Spirit "of" God.

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

I will only say now that there is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and that this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3); even the Spirit of truth.

You would do well to believe that there is one God (James 2:19).

Even the demons, who have experiential knowledge of God, understand this basic truth..and tremble!

 

[Grailhunter]

ok times up. Acts 22:14 clearly states that the "God of our father" is the OT God who created ... "All things" well Grailhunter that seals the deal on your three Gods, but there is icying on the cake. JESUS, the "Lord" who you say is distinct or different from the one whom you call "GOD", is "GOD"... (smile), listen. for there is a third account of the same encounter, this time Paul give us more detail when he is before king Agrippa. listen,
Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

see that word "MAKE", it is the Greek word,
G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

this is the exact same word Ananias used in Act 22:14 as to who "chose" saul.

so Grailhunter, there is you direct proof that JESUS is "Lord" and "GOD", who is the "Father", and the "Son. did you not hear, Thomas, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

PICJAG

Have not even began! You got to find some better scriptures.

ok times up. Acts 22:14 clearly states that the "God of our father" is the OT God who created ... "All things" well Grailhunter that seals the deal on your three Gods, but there is icying on the cake.

In fact Yahweh, God the Father created all things. But we are talking about the three Gods in the NT.

JESUS, the "Lord" who you say is distinct or different from the one whom you call "GOD", is "GOD"... (smile), listen. for there is a third account of the same encounter, this time Paul give us more detail when he is before king Agrippa. listen,
Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the

Yeshua is Lord, the Son of God, no disagreement there. Still nothing on the one person Trinity? Ahhh!
Still looking for your description of what you believe.
Still looking for your 60 scriptures on the one Person Trinity.

 

[Grailhunter]

yes, it is establish, and the "Father" name is JESUS.......

PICJAG.

now onto your "MY Father" and "My Son"........

I love this.

PICJAG.

yes, it is establish, and the "Father" name is JESUS.......
Wrong on several counts...different topics but....No J's can be in the scriptures because the letter J or it pronunciation did not occur in 1400 AD. The word Jesus did not exist until the 1600's The only way that Miriam heard the name Jesus is if someone sneezed.

God the father is Yahweh, God the Son is Yeshua...and then God the Holy Spirit.

Still waiting for the 60 scriptures

 

[Grailhunter]

for those who might not understand fully, let's make it plain.

The possessive “MY”, and the genitive “OF”

This prepositions, “of”, as in the Spirit “of” God, what do it mean and how is it used. My source, the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. “of” translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction.

the “MY”, which is possessive, as in “MY FATHER”, What is the difference between genitive and possessive? As adjectives the difference between possessive and genitive is that possessive is of or pertaining to ownership or possession while genitive is (grammar) of or pertaining to that case which expresses origin or possession it corresponds to the possessive case in english.

simplying saying, the Spirit “of” God is “GOD”. just as the spirit of 101G is 101G. BINGO.

and "my" hand or "my"ARM" is me. that's "my" hand and "my" ARM.

PICJAG.

lol My Father means My Father....Yeshua is speaking of Yahweh His Father. Juggle some more....Waiting for your 60 scriptures. Do you even know what you believe?

 

[justbyfaith]

JESUS, the "Lord" who you say is distinct or different from the one whom you call "GOD", is "GOD"... (smile),

Get it straight...

@Grailhunter believes that they are three separate Gods.

I believe that there is one God; and that the members of the Godhead are distinct from each other.

 

[Grailhunter]

Get it straight...

@Grailhunter believes that they are three separate Gods.

I believe that there is one God; and that the members of the Godhead are distinct from each other.

Close...tomato...tamato Three Gods in unity. I have no problem saying Trinity or Godhead. One God or one person, no chance. God the Father, Yahweh....God the Son, Yeshua....God the Holy Spirit. Individual presence, each thinking, moving, working, independently united in mission.

 

[justbyfaith]

Close...tomato...tamato Three Gods in unity. I have no problem saying Trinity or Godhead. One God or one person, no chance. God the Father, Yahweh....God the Son, Yeshua....God the Holy Spirit. Individual presence, each thinking, moving, working, independently united in mission.

They are in fact the same Person.