Truth is not relative

[amadeus]

Not necessarily to dispute your point, but to dispute that the passage in question substantiates it: the passage above is something that Jesus spoke concerning His own death and resurrection, saying that He Himself would die and that as a result there would be much fruit that would be brought forth.

Much fruit would be brought forth because Jesus opened the Way. With it closed no one could go in... He made it a possibility and some have taken advantage of it walking the Way that God has provided through His Son... but they still have to walk it themselves? God is no respecter of persons!

Of course it can be taken as an objective truth; however I am not certain that this passage in particular teaches that we must die in order to have everlasting life.

We have to die to sin in order to Live and Walk with and in Him! We cannot be in sin and Walk in Him!

A person may receive Christ and then go on to be with the Lord before they have any chancxe to die to self.

How much time does a man have? God knows this too. There is no chance involved... only choice. That is free will to choose our own way or God's.

And concerning physical death, they may accept Christ and then be raptured immediately.

When does a man run out of time? Will God let a man run out time unfairly?

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Cor 10:13

 

[amadeus]

I will interpret it as being a literal account and not a parable.

This is clear when you look at other scriptures; such as Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, and Matthew 25:46.

It is perhaps clear to you according to what you believe. Does it fit God's plan or is it your own? Is your vision "face to face" already?

 

[amadeus]

That is talking about an idol made of brass; not the Person of the Son of God!

Consider what Nehushtan was when Moses made it at the instruction of God and what it was when King Hezekiah destroyed it. Have you ever met someone who twisted the truth to fit another more convenient or comfortable [to them ] mold and then worshipped that twisted truth [which of course was a lie]? Do we need a Hezekiah anywhere today? I think that some men painted themselves that way!

 

[amadeus]

There is complete forgiveness in the blood of Christ.

"And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." Matt 9:2
Do you suppose that this man who had been sick of the palsy, was saved for always from that point forward? Did he now have unending Life? Could he never have sinned again?

What is the blood of Christ? How does it differ from the Life giving Spirit?

 

[bbyrd009]

The promise was given for them to put their trust in; and the word of the Lord doesn't return void.

ha ok then, i mean who can argue with that logic right

but then by the same token No one has ever gone up to heaven, but is also given for us to put our faith in, yes?
There is only One Immortal, and you aint Him too i guess

see, we can tiptoe through the tulips the rest of the day, but nonetheless
your bargain with the grave will be annulled

 

[justbyfaith]

There is only One Immortal, and you aint Him too i guess

I am in Him.

 

[Marymog]

Uh...……. It was the passage you, yourself, selected to say that I should have used.
See your own post: Truth is not relative

Uh......the other passage you pointed out (The Lords Prayer) as your defense clearly shows, when taken in context and history, was meant for all Christians NOT the 12 only.

The passage I selected (rich man) when taken in context is meant for all Christians therfore it is more appropriate.

The FACT still remains the original passage you pointed out was meant for the 11 ONLY and context makes that CLEAR. Referencing other passages....such as the Lords Prayer passage...changes nothing.

 

[Marymog]

just the sexy ppl

I find no humor in your trolling comment. To jokingly suggest that Christ was only talking to sexy people is a VERY bizarre comment.

 

[Marymog]

i think whatever you believe right now is fine, mary, as long as you are sincere about it

Ok troll man

 

[bbyrd009]

I am in Him.

ok, so go with that then, and just ignore all of the other obvious Scripture, ok with me

 

[amadeus]

ha ok then, i mean who can argue with that logic right

but then by the same token No one has ever gone up to heaven, but is also given for us to put our faith in, yes?
There is only One Immortal, and you aint Him too i guess

see, we can tiptoe through the tulips the rest of the day, but nonetheless
your bargain with the grave will be annulled

 

[bbyrd009]

I find no humor in your trolling comment.

gee, shocker there eh

To jokingly suggest that Christ was only talking to sexy people is a VERY bizarre comment.

well, you made some stuff up, so i figured i could too

Ok troll man

every breath i take without your permission raises my self-esteem, accuser mary
best of luck in your quest for immortality tho ok, honest

who knows, maybe Jesus really did mean "death, more abundantly" eh

 

[bbyrd009]

Consider what Nehushtan was when Moses made it at the instruction of God and what it was when King Hezekiah destroyed it. Have you ever met someone who twisted the truth to fit another more convenient or comfortable [to them ] mold and then worshipped that twisted truth [which of course was a lie]? Do we need a Hezekiah anywhere today? I think that some men painted themselves that way!

consider that Jesus likened Himself to Nehushtan, although surely that would just generate some other deflection i guess

 

[amadeus]

consider that Jesus likened Himself to Nehushtan, although surely that would just generate some other deflection i guess

Most have not a clue as to what we are even talking about... I hope that some do!

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14-15

As Moses did… not as the children of Israel did:

"He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan." II Kings 18:4

And then see here about how Jesus is to be lifted up:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
This he said, signifying what death he should die." John 12:32-33

 

[justbyfaith]

Heb 1:6, And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten (Jesus) into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[justbyfaith]

ok, so go with that then, and just ignore all of the other obvious Scripture, ok with me

What scripture, other than what you have already quoted? (which remains unconvincing).

 

[justbyfaith]

John 3:14-15 declares how we must look on Christ in faith in order to be delivered from sin...the poison of the serpent and his demons (who are also like serpents).

Much later, the same thing that was to be looked upon for salvation was worshiped as an idol (Nehushtan).

I believe that the issue here is idolatry; not the worship of Jesus as God.

As Hebrews 1:6 plainly shows, even the holy angels are commanded to worship Jesus as the Lord God.

 

[justbyfaith]

The concept at hand (that the truth is elusive and that therefore most people cannot have any knowledge of it) is addressed by the following scripture:

2Ti 4:2, Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth,...

Those who cannot endure sound doctrine relish the idea that the truth cannot be known; because if the truth cannot be known, then sound doctrine is not the truth, because it is known; and therefore they do not have to heed sound doctrine which is always an exhortation towards holiness, even godliness:

1Ti 6:3, If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Tit 1:1, Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And people do not want to live according to godliness because it places constraints upon the desires of the flesh and of the mind:

1Th 4:3, For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1Th 4:4, That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
1Th 4:5, Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
1Th 4:6, That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
1Th 4:7, For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
1Th 4:8, He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.


Eph 2:1, And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2, Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3, Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[bbyrd009]

What scripture, other than what you have already quoted? (which remains unconvincing).

well, i am not trying to convince you of anything in particular jbf, i mean least not that i can think of? But i am sure getting the impression youre tryin real hard to not be convinced of somethin, sure enough.
There is only One Immortal is "unconvincing?" Boy, that even tops mjrs "no one needs to pick up their cross" imo, i dunno what to say there. ok.

As Hebrews 1:6 plainly shows, even the holy angels are commanded to worship Jesus as the Lord God.

lol, jesus.

nevermind His Words on the matter i mean
bc i guess they would be "unconvincing" too.

no offense but ima not talk to you anymore for a while ok
best of luck with the DMA thing ok

 

[justbyfaith]

well, i am not trying to convince you of anything in particular jbf, i mean least not that i can think of? But i am sure getting the impression youre tryin real hard to not be convinced of somethin, sure enough.
There is only One Immortal is "unconvincing?" Boy, that even tops mjrs "no one needs to pick up their cross" imo, i dunno what to say there. ok.

Those who believe in the Immortal One are in the Immortal One; we are members of His body.

Therefore, by proxy, we are also immortal.