Truth is not relative

[justbyfaith]

I believe this is only in reference to 70 AD

70 A.D. was not the end although the temple was indeed destroyed in that year. The end technically happens when Jesus returns in the glorious appearing.

 

[Willie T]

I believe this is only in reference to 70 AD

"Yes", so many people are chomping at the bit to make any mention of "the end" to be a reference to the Earth exploding.

 

[Marymog]

Did eleven men actually manage to go into all the world?

I don't know if that could be proven one way or the other and I really don't care. The fact remains that Jesus was not talking to all Christians in that passage. My only goal was to put that passage in context and hold to the true meaning of that passage.

I suspect you could have found a different passage to make your point. Maybe Matthew 19:21?

Mary

 

[Waiting on him]

70 A.D. was not the end although the temple was indeed destroyed in that year. The end technically happens when Jesus returns in the glorious appearing.

The end in my opinion is just simply when He makes all things new.

2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Revelation 21:5-6 KJV
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. [6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

[Waiting on him]

The end is simply the beginning!

 

[101G]

The end is simply the beginning!

Isaiah 46:9 & 10

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

I don't know if that could be proven one way or the other and I really don't care. The fact remains that Jesus was not talking to all Christians in that passage. My only goal was to put that passage in context and hold to the true meaning of that passage.

I suspect you could have found a different passage to make your point. Maybe Matthew 19:21?

Mary

That verse you suggested was very specifically addressing only one man, in one singular situation, in the context of a conversation with that man, telling just him what he, alone, needed to do in order to achieve a stated desired goal. Why would I use it?
As far as "speaking to the 11" goes, when Jesus gave "The Lord's Prayer" (which we all use) He was speaking only, and exclusively to His little group of disciples...….. yet we take that as being said to all of us.

 

[Willie T]

The end is simply the beginning!

Rather wise words..... especially when considering 70AD.

 

[bbyrd009]

However, those who are ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth are not put in a good light by holy scripture (see 2 Timothy 3:6-9, esp. v.7).

"holy" Scripture; ok

i would consider the diff in "ever learning, and never coming to knowledge" and "always learning, having realized that truth is not absolute" or "...truth is a moving target" or even "...truth is (too) subjective/relative (as Monty Python and many others have demonstrated)" which to our logical ears sounds like a direct contradiction of "knowledge" maybe right, but if i "know" that i will never know the whole of some thing, what happens after we die for instance, then that is also "knowledge" of a sort, yeh?

Which i would not accept in a vacuum, either, i would be looking for other passages to confirm this, esp ones that the accepted interpretation seems lifeless, or pointless, but this interp brings to life maybe; what is it? ...I will give to eat of the hidden manna, et al

i mean knowledge brings sorrow, seems a weird fit for yours maybe

as for the 2Tim ref, seems like a diff subject there? But hey at least in that case you get a list of revealing behaviors huh?

 

[Marymog]

That verse you suggested was very specifically addressing only one man, in one singular situation, in the context of a conversation with that man, telling just him what he, alone, need to do in order to achieve a stated desired goal. Why would I use it?
As far as "speaking to the 11" goes, when Jesus gave "The Lord's Prayer" (which we all use) He was speaking only, and exclusively to His little group of disciples...….. yet we take that as being said to all of us.

Hi Willie,

Pointing out other passages as your defense doesn't change the truth of that passage.

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Hi Willie,

Pointing out other passages as your defense doesn't change the truth of that passage.

Mary

Uh...……. It was the passage you, yourself, selected to say that I should have used.
See your own post: Truth is not relative

 

[Enoch111]

As far as "speaking to the 11" goes, when Jesus gave "The Lord's Prayer" (which we all use) He was speaking only, and exclusively to His little group of disciples...….. yet we take that as being said to all of us.

Good point. Which undercuts all this nonsense about the Great Commission being given to only the Eleven. Why are we running into more and more nonsense these days?

 

[justbyfaith]

Good point. Which undercuts all this nonsense about the Great Commission being given to only the Eleven. Why are we running into more and more nonsense these days?

But John 8:24 is only for the scribes and Pharisees...

 

[marksman]

I don't know if this is relevant or not but I am going to say it anyway. Having devoted myself to studying culture and all that it entails for 40 years, one could be forgiven for thinking that the battle we face today is with this lot or that lot or the other lot. We are but that is not the crux of the matter as whoever we are having to deal with are all embraced in one overall problem and that is truth.

The enemies of God have gone out of their way to convince society that what they say is truth and what God says is a lie as in calling good bad and bad good. All of the movements around today have as their aim to destroy what God has created that is why there is such an attack on the family and which we as Christians are not helping judging by the divorce rate amongst them.

When I am faced with a comment or a claim from the God-haters, I ask myself one question and one question only and that is "is it the truth." In most cases, it is not and that being the facts, I ignore what they claim or respond with the truth.

So how can we know the truth? Simple. The scripture says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth. If that is what it says then that is the truth. Any church that rejects the work of the Holy Spirit rejects the truth as you can't have one without the other.

When a church rejects the work of the Holy Spirit, they have to keep clear of all cultural issues because they are not equipped to deal with them. That is why most churches are silent about abortion. That is why some Christians (sic) support abortion. They believe a lie because they are not equipped with the truth which only the Holy Spirit can give them.

It is no surprise that Satan has convinced whole denominations that they don't need the truth as revealed by the Holy Spirit. When he achieves this, the church becomes lifeless and useless.

 

[FollowHim]

Jhn 12:48, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Emotional relativism is our state of existence. Absolutism leads to extreme judgementalism and the belief that this body of truth cannot be discussed or investigated, either you agree with it, or you oppose it. People have been murdered on this basis throughout history, the the authority which declares the absolutes normally hates those who question its basis, because without the basis of absolutism the judgements are flawed and wrong.

Emotional relativism. This is the feeling you get after going through a chain of logic or rules, and your conclusion is no failure so your belief is correct and true. The only way one has of knowing one is right, is the feeling. To confirm the feeling one can go back through the chain to confirm there is no failure along the way. Cults perform a trick to delude people. Get a group to create the feeling, jump round the chain, and you know it is right because of the way you feel. This is also how group learning works. If the group adopt a particular point of view, the members will adopt it to, without working it through. It is why societies can be manipulated and changed, and why historical shocks change moods and approaches in ways the members of the society are not aware of, but are quite robust and difficult to shift.

Now truth, absolute truth does exist, but it is external to ourselves, and we have to work at getting a grasp on it. It relies on consistent work and chipping away, day after day, to reveal a closer picture of what actually is.

Jesus spoke some realities about His words spoken and the truth hidden within them. He is addressing the problem we have as sinners, distant in rebellion against the Lord, that we reject His words from our hearts, claiming innocense and being victims of circumstance, society, birth, situations and side stepping our heart condition and destroying ourselves by our hatred, bitterness and unforgiveness. Unless we let Jesus into our hearts, we will be blind, deaf and dumb, lost in our state with no way out.

But because we are totally emotionally relative, until we move towards Jesus, the words seem meaningless and gain no purchase in our hearts.
As I have seen this applies across all theological positions, because we are talking the state of our hearts not our faith positions. In a sense it is our hearts that declare do we know the Lord or not, though our theology will often reflect whether we have met Him, our hearts lead our theology, which often people fail to see, because their hearts are still locked away. God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

Now truth, absolute truth does exist, but it is external to ourselves,

2Jo 1:2, For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
.
.
Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Col 1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
.
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Col 3:16, Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

our hearts lead our theology,

I agree. If someone, in their heart, is harboring sin, it will affect their theology for the worse.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Yes", so many people are chomping at the bit to make any mention of "the end" to be a reference to the Earth exploding.

"everyone is secretly waiting for the world to end" lol

Did eleven men actually manage to go into all the world?

once the symbology of "twelve" is understood imo yes

 

[bbyrd009]

The fact remains that Jesus was not talking to all Christians in that passage

just the sexy ppl

 

[bbyrd009]

The end in my opinion is just simply when He makes all things new.

word
put on your new shoes
(get the cool shoeshine)

 

[bbyrd009]

Rather wise words..... especially when considering 70AD.

from eternity to eternity huh