TRUTH

[Rex]

Axehead, Jesus is standing in front of a massive rock in Caesarea Phillippi upon which stands the "false church" , the temple to the "divine" Caesar Augustus, so Jesus says to Peter: "You are rock" making a correlation. Then after the correlation has been made, He looks at Peter 'and' the massive rock and says:, " And upon this rock I will build my church"
Jesus could not be the foundation in this metaporical description, because in this illustration He presents himself as the " builder". The following is very important , in Scripture Jesus is variously depicted as the 'foundation' [ 1 Cor. 3:11 ] the builder [ Matt. 16:18 ] the cornerstone [ Acts 4:11 ] and the temple itself [ Rev. 21:22 ] We can also see where the apostles and other believers as the foundation [ Eph. 2:20 , Rev. 21:14 ] , the builders [ 1 Cor. 3: 10 ] the building [ 1 Cor.3:9 ] and the temple [ Eph. 2:21]
Many illustrative metaphors are used to explain various aspects of the Church. One can not simply substitute one descriptive figure of speech for another in any one illustration, thereby mixing metaphors. It does great violence to the texual illustration itself and is a good example of roughshod "proof-texting ", wrongly" dividingthe word of truth" [2 tim.2;15 ] . the Bible does not set up a dichomy--' either ' Jesus or Peter, rather, it presents us with both Jesus and Peter as foundation stones . Jesus is establishing the man who will be the focal point of unity within the Church, the foundation. He who builds on sand has a structure that crumbles [ Matt. 7: 24-27 ] Jesus built His Church upon the rock of His choice, and , by His protection, the Catholic/Apostolic Church has stood the test of time.The powers of hell have failed to destroy or corrupt it's doctrine.

And where did you learn all of that LOL.

And then to publicly deny Christ, shame on you

Jesus could not be the foundation in this metaporical description,

 

[Axehead]

And where did you learn all of that LOL.

And then to publicly deny Christ, shame on you

Someone must have passed it down "orally".

 

[Rex]

Tell me which one of the gods at Pillippi inspired you to speak

neo

 

[neophyte]

Tell me which one of the gods at Pillippi inspired you to speak

neo

I have One God= God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit, and by the way, the only One True Holy Spirit was infused into Christ's One Holy and Apostolic Church at Pentecost , nowhere in the bible does the HS became infused to any other future church. so listen to your spirit found in your denominational or non-denominational church or cult if you must , all I can do is pray that the HS will lead you to Christ's real apostolic Church of [ Matt.16:15-19, Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10, Eph. 2:19-20 ]

 

[THE Gypsy]

I have One God= God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit, and by the way, the only One True Holy Spirit was infused into Christ's One Holy and Apostolic Church at Pentecost , nowhere in the bible does the HS became infused to any other future church. so listen to your spirit found in your denominational or non-denominational church or cult if you must , all I can do is pray that the HS will lead you to Christ's real apostolic Church of [ Matt.16:15-19, Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10, Eph. 2:19-20 ]

Since you say "nowhere in the bible does the HS became infused to any other future church" (which is either bad grammar or you left a word out) can you show me where, in the Bible, it says the Holy Spirit will only be "infused" into the Catholic Church? Also, since the cc did not exist at the time of Christ, wouldn't IT be considered a "future church"?

 

[neophyte]

Since you say "nowhere in the bible does the HS became infused to any other future church" (which is either bad grammar or you left a word out) can you show me where, in the Bible, it says the Holy Spirit will only be "infused" into the Catholic Church? Also, since the cc did not exist at the time of Christ, wouldn't IT be considered a "future church"?

No problem Gypsy, good question.
The Catholic Church was always labeled Catholic from the end of the 1st Century, Christ's Catholic Church also teaches one set of doctrines [ unchanged for the past 2000 years continuosly unchanged until Jesus returns ] These doctrines must be the same as those taught by the apostles [ Jude 3 ] This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us [ Phil. 1:27, 2:2 ] The Catholic Church is apostolic because it follows the Bible and the early practices and teachings of the apostles [ Eph. 2:19 -20 ] [ Luke 10:16 ] [ Matt. 28; 19-20 ] No other Church follows this route with lineage traced directly back to Jesus and His chosen personal apostles.

 

[THE Gypsy]

No problem Gypsy, good question.
The Catholic Church was always labeled Catholic from the end of the 1st Century, Christ's Catholic Church also teaches one set of doctrines [ unchanged for the past 2000 years continuosly unchanged until Jesus returns ] These doctrines must be the same as those taught by the apostles [ Jude 3 ] This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us [ Phil. 1:27, 2:2 ] The Catholic Church is apostolic because it follows the Bible and the early practices and teachings of the apostles [ Eph. 2:19 -20 ] [ Luke 10:16 ] [ Matt. 28; 19-20 ] No other Church follows this route with lineage traced directly back to Jesus and His chosen personal apostles.

I understand that is what the cc believes and teaches. What I'm looking for is the specific Scripture reference that backs it up/confirms the teaching.

I do not see anywhere in the Bible where anyone (Jesus, Apostles, etc.) names a specific church/denomination, whether it's Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Islam, whatever, and therein lies the danger of myopically casting out all others other than the ones belonging to a particular group. Other than the foundation...Christ...His life, death, resurrection, accomplishments through all that, and any clear, specific direction we are given, the rest is learned (from God through the Holy Spirit from Scripture) and earned (through obedience).

I know people that are Believers who are Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Nondenominational, or that claim no specific affiliation, other than to Christ. How do I KNOW they are true Believers? God's spirit in me bears witness with them? Are they perfect? Of course not? Each person has their own walk in life. By that I mean their own life experiences that not only make them who they are but shape their beliefs and convictions. No two people are going to agree 100% of the time but through respectful sharing we can all learn a lot from one another.

 

[Axehead]

No problem Gypsy, good question.
The Catholic Church was always labeled Catholic from the end of the 1st Century, Christ's Catholic Church also teaches one set of doctrines [ unchanged for the past 2000 years continuosly unchanged until Jesus returns ] These doctrines must be the same as those taught by the apostles [ Jude 3 ] This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us [ Phil. 1:27, 2:2 ] The Catholic Church is apostolic because it follows the Bible and the early practices and teachings of the apostles [ Eph. 2:19 -20 ] [ Luke 10:16 ] [ Matt. 28; 19-20 ] No other Church follows this route with lineage traced directly back to Jesus and His chosen personal apostles.

I'm sorry Neo, what counts is what Jesus and the Apostles say not what so-called "church fathers" say. Jesus and the Apostles never said anything about a Roman Catholic Church with headquarters in Rome, their very own Bank, a Pope or bodyguards for a pope. You need to think about why we have an enemy and why he would co-opt the headship of Christ on earth.

It is the Holy Spirit that adds to the Church daily from all over the world. The Church is not an earthly organization but a living, breathing "organism" made up of living people who have Christ's spirit.

Surely, you can admit that those kinds of people exist in all manner of men's organizations outside of the RCC.

Do you agree that people exist outside the RCC that have been filled with the Spirit of God and thereby are Christians?

 

[Rex]

I have One God= God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit, and by the way, the only One True Holy Spirit was infused into Christ's One Holy and Apostolic Church at Pentecost , nowhere in the bible does the HS became infused to any other future church. so listen to your spirit found in your denominational or non-denominational church or cult if you must , all I can do is pray that the HS will lead you to Christ's real apostolic Church of [ Matt.16:15-19, Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10, Eph. 2:19-20 ]

So now I belong to a cult, LOL I posted some pictures up above of your church, low and behold a perfect fit.
Did you catch the Daniel reference as well? The Stone cut from the mountain not by human hand.

I hope you come out of your church, the waters are drying up from under Babylon soon Cyrus will enter under the gate.
And in a single day, it shall fall. That's well documented history as well as a future event. First comes the physical the man from the dust "Adam" first Cyrus, then comes the Man of the Spirit the second Adam to take captive the spirit's of Babylon, first the flesh then the spirit.

Look at the picture of your church I posted. The water was diverted long ago
If you get my drift

 

[Selene]

I understand that is what the cc believes and teaches. What I'm looking for is the specific Scripture reference that backs it up/confirms the teaching.

I do not see anywhere in the Bible where anyone (Jesus, Apostles, etc.) names a specific church/denomination, whether it's Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Islam, whatever, and therein lies the danger of myopically casting out all others other than the ones belonging to a particular group. Other than the foundation...Christ...His life, death, resurrection, accomplishments through all that, and any clear, specific direction we are given, the rest is learned (from God through the Holy Spirit from Scripture) and earned (through obedience).

I know people that are Believers who are Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Nondenominational, or that claim no specific affiliation, other than to Christ. How do I KNOW they are true Believers? God's spirit in me bears witness with them? Are they perfect? Of course not? Each person has their own walk in life. By that I mean their own life experiences that not only make them who they are but shape their beliefs and convictions. No two people are going to agree 100% of the time but through respectful sharing we can all learn a lot from one another.

This is what Scripture says:

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

The Holy Bible tells us that there were many things that Jesus did that were not written down. Just because they were not recorded in the Holy Bible does not mean that they are not important because EVERYTHING that our Lord did was important. So, how does one know what these things are that Jesus did that were not recorded? Only the Apostles knews....and what they knew was transferred to the Church through the apostolic tradition.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The Roman Catholic Church believes in both Sacred Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition that has been handed down to her since apostolic times, and she is the oldest Christian Church. Christ built only one Church, but it is a Church whose members are not perfect. No church has members who are perfect. In fact, even the Apostles were not perfect.

Nevertheless, the Roman Catholic Church binds herself with non-Catholics despite that they are not in communion with Rome. Together with us, our Christian brothers and sisters make up the Body of Christ (according to Catechism 838). The RCC also binds herself with the Eastern Orthodox Church and she too is also included as part of the Body of Christ. In fact, the late Pope John Paul II called the Eastern Orthodox Church "the left lung of the Roman Catholic Church." However, the Roman Catholic Church is the Church that was founded by Christ through the Apostle Peter, and she can traced her lineage to the Apostle Peter. She can also trace her heritage and roots back to Judaism for Christ and the Apostles were Jewish.

 

[Rex]

Nevertheless, the Roman Catholic Church binds herself with non-Catholics despite that they are not in communion with Rome. Together with us, our Christian brothers and sisters make up the Body of Christ (according to Catechism 838). The RCC also binds herself with the Eastern Orthodox Church and she too is also included as part of the Body of Christ. In fact, the late Pope John Paul II called the Eastern Orthodox Church "the left lung of the Roman Catholic Church." However, the Roman Catholic Church is the Church that was founded by Christ through the Apostle Peter, and she can traced her lineage to the Apostle Peter. She can also trace her heritage and roots back to Judaism for Christ and the Apostles were Jewish.

Your catholic, how nice.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."[sup]322[/sup] Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."[sup]323[/sup] With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."[sup]324[/sup]

Well I'd like to make a formal statement and please fell free to jump on the nearest moon beam and tell the Pope or the church which ever term you choose, "I know your a bit fussy about words" That I will never allow myself or my soul or the Spirit that dwells with-in me to even entertain the notion that you or him "the pope" has a dam thing to say about my salvation. Now you can believe that nonsense but count me out. Thank You

BTW did you see my pictures?

 

[Axehead]

This is what Scripture says:

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

The Holy Bible tells us that there were many things that Jesus did that were not written down. Just because they were not recorded in the Holy Bible does not mean that they are not important because EVERYTHING that our Lord did was important. So, how does one know what these things are that Jesus did that were not recorded? Only the Apostles knews....and what they knew was transferred to the Church through the apostolic tradition.

Selene, the RCC takes great license with the verse. That is not what that verse is saying. If the Apostles handed these things down via oral tradition and if oral tradition is so exalted and safe, why aren't you still handing them down orally? The fact is that you are not. Whatever the RCC says is oral tradition, they wrote down. Why? Because they thought it was important enough to write down. Correct? Now, if it was so important for the Catholic Church to write down, why didn't the Apostles write down what they thought was important for the Church? Well, they did. They wrote down what they orally taught.

1 Thess 2:1 - Paul reminded the church in Thessalonica that "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

II Peter 1:12-15 - presents a powerful affirmation that what the apostles taught orally was then codified in written form as the same message: "Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance."

2 Thessalonians 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Tradition
paradosis
par-ad'-os-is
From G3860; transmission, that is, (concretely) a precept; specifically the Jewish traditionary law: - ordinance, tradition.

The Roman Catholic Church believes in both Sacred Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition that has been handed down to her since apostolic times, and she is the oldest Christian Church. Christ built only one Church, but it is a Church whose members are not perfect. No church has members who are perfect. In fact, even the Apostles were not perfect.

From Peter's words we can see the following:

1. Gospel truths taught orally can soon be forgotten or manipulated.
2. They had already been taught those truths that Peter repeats in written form for several reasons.

• To remind them of truths already embraced.
• To "stir them up" to the meanings of and the practice of those truths.
• To preserve those truths beyond the life span of the apostles.
• To give permanent form to the truths taught.
• To let them know that after the death of the apostles there will be no other source of knowledge about the Gospel truth.

<p>I John 2:20-21 - The apostle assures Christians that they have from the apostles all the truth (what they "heard from the beginning" vs. 24). He then says: "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth."

• The "truth heard from the beginning" relates to the oral teaching of the apostle.
• What John now writes has 3 basic purposes:

To confirm truths already taught.
To warn about the "lies" of the Antichrist.
And to give a permanent record of the truth.

1 Cor 15:1-4 - Paul repeats the message the Christians in Corinth had heard- Paul is saying that the gospel:

• Had already been preached to them.
• They had received apostolic testimony.
• They we "standing in" the message.
• They were saved by it.
• Then why did Paul repeat it? For the same reasons Peter and John repeated in written form what they had taught orally.

Nevertheless, the Roman Catholic Church binds herself with non-Catholics despite that they are not in communion with Rome.

What is important is to be in communion with Jesus Christ (I am the Vine and ye are the branches....abide in Me and I in you). If you are in communion with the Lord Jesus Christ, then you will be in communion with those who are also in communion with Him. Jesus is the source of Unity, not the Church. Here again, you are exalting the Church and not Jesus Christ.

Together with us, our Christian brothers and sisters make up the Body of Christ (according to Catechism 838). The RCC also binds herself with the Eastern Orthodox Church and she too is also included as part of the Body of Christ. In fact, the late Pope John Paul II called the Eastern Orthodox Church "the left lung of the Roman Catholic Church." However, the Roman Catholic Church is the Church that was founded by Christ through the Apostle Peter, and she can traced her lineage to the Apostle Peter. She can also trace her heritage and roots back to Judaism for Christ and the Apostles were Jewish.

That is not what the Scriptures teach, Selene. Because the RCC is wrong on so many levels (i.e. the ones I just wrote about), such as making the RCC organization the focus of unity and mediatorship instead of Jesus Christ (communion with Him, direct access through him) then everything else you say continues to be false because your foundation is false. Your foundation is not Christ Jesus, but men who have usurped His active Headship on earth. And men in various non-Catholic churches have done it, too. You have taken the "Keys" of the Government off of His shoulders (or so you think you have) and have set yourselves up between men and God. You want men to call your leaders "Father", when it was expressly forbidden by the Lord Jesus to address any man with this spiritual title. The spiritual title of Father belongs to God only and Jesus was very clear about that.

Axehead

 

[Selene]

Your catholic, how nice.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."[sup]322[/sup] Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."[sup]323[/sup] With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."[sup]324[/sup]

Well I'd like to make a formal statement and please fell free to jump on the nearest moon beam and tell the Pope or the church which ever term you choose, "I know your a bit fussy about words" That I will never allow myself or my soul or the Spirit that dwells with-in me to even entertain the notion that you or him "the pope" has a dam thing to say about my salvation. Now you can believe that nonsense but count me out. Thank You

BTW did you see my pictures?

Brother Rex, I thought you went to sleep. It should be night where you from. It's daylight here where I am from.

Yes, I saw the pictures. The Church that Christ built is not made of stone. The word "Church" means assembly of people. When Christ spoke to Peter, Christ was speaking in Aramaic, and this is what Christ said, "You are Cephas (rock) and on this Cephas (rock), I will build my Church." Christ did not say that He was going to build His Church at Caesarea Philippi. It was through the Apostle Peter that Christ will build His Church on. Why did you think Peter's name was changed to "Rock." In Aramaic, Cephas means "Rock."

[/font][/color]

Selene, the RCC takes great license with the verse. That is not what that verse is saying. If the Apostles handed these things down via oral tradition and if oral tradition is so exalted and safe, why aren't you still handing them down orally? The fact is that you are not. Whatever the RCC says is oral tradition, they wrote down. Why? Because they thought it was important enough to write down. Correct? Now, if it was so important for the Catholic Church to write down, why didn't the Apostles write down what they thought was important for the Church? Well, they did. They wrote down what they orally taught.

The RCC only takes down what comes from the Apostles. That is why we call it the "Apostolic Tradition." The Apostles are now gone, so there is nothing to hand down. If the RCC hands down any tradition that does not come from the Apostles, it would not be "apostolic tradition." St. John already admitted in his gospel that not everything that Jesus did was written down. And that is true. However, just because it was not written down in Scripture does not mean that it's not important. We believe that everything our Lord Jesus Christ did was important. Those things that were not written down were handed down to the Church, and the Church has kept them.

The Church that started out in Jesus' time was very small......small like a mustard seed. In time, the Church grew. When a mustard seed grows, it grows into a huge beautiful tree that it no longer looks like that mustard seed. And it's difficult to imagine that this huge massive tree was once a very small tiny mustard seed.....the smallest of all seeds. The Church that Christ built is like that. It has grown so huge into a beautiful tree that it no longer looks like that small church it once was.

That is not what the Scriptures teach, Selene. Because the RCC is wrong on so many levels (i.e. the ones I just wrote about), such as making the RCC organization the focus of unity and mediatorship instead of Jesus Christ (communion with Him, direct access through him) then everything else you say continues to be false because your foundation is false. Your foundation is not Christ Jesus, but men who have usurped His active Headship on earth. And men in various non-Catholic churches have done it, too. You have taken the "Keys" of the Government off of His shoulders (or so you think you have) and have set yourselves up between men and God. You want men to call your leaders "Father", when it was expressly forbidden by the Lord Jesus to address any man with this spiritual title. The spiritual title of Father belongs to God only and Jesus was very clear about that.

Axehead

The Church that Christ built has a mission. Her mission is to carry on the ministry of Jesus Christ and to bring all people to Him....the High Priest and Mediator. It is only through Christ that one can know and reach the Father. The Church is to bring all people to Jesus Christ.

 

[Rex]

Brother Rex, I thought you went to sleep. It should be night where you from. It's daylight here where I am from.

Yes, I saw the pictures. The Church that Christ built is not made of stone. The word "Church" means assembly of people. When Christ spoke to Peter, Christ was speaking in Aramaic, and this is what Christ said, "You are Cephas (rock) and on this Cephas (rock), I will build my Church." Christ did not say that He was going to build His Church at Caesarea Philippi. It was through the Apostle Peter that Christ will build His Church on. Why did you think Peter's name was changed to "Rock." In Aramaic, Cephas means "Rock."

It's 8:45 PM

The Church that Christ built is not made of stone. The word "Church" means assembly of people.

I know this, the invisible church. But then why is it that your belief insist that we be a member of your assembly "your brick and mortar church?
This sounds like double talk to me, the true church and it's full membership is only know by Christ. Yet your churches official position doesn't say that now does it?

The church in the picture fits the description of the Catholics official church position and statements catechism 811 one church in which flows the water, Spirit essence of Gods salvation "brick and mortar". That looks exactly like the picture. Official statement 838 that if someone is baptized by water in Christ that this church in the picture is also this source, but in an imperfect communion with the mother church at the rivers head. But never the less anyone that receives this water down stream is in union with said church that stands at the mouth. That to is depicted in the picture and is reenforced by your catechism 838 which you tossed out here like you and your church have sort of authority.

What this all boils down to is your church would like to think it is the door. This door you attempt to place in front of all men has long been pulled off its hinges.
The river has long since been diverted as well, Your popes claim to be the vicar of Christ. The list is endless I wont remind you of the details.
Now you stand in the faith you choose, but you deny I have salvation and the presents of the HS on me outside of your brick and mortar church.

In no uncertain terms that's blasphemy of the work of the Holy Spirit. For which there is no forgiveness. Good luck with that.
The Pharisees were accussed by Jesus for blocking the door as well as blasphemy I see you riding that same leaky boat.

BTW Jesus told the Pharisees that not only were they blocking the door that they themselves did not enter in,
Look it up you know the bible I not even going to do you the courtesy of posting the verse.

 

[Axehead]

Brother Rex, I thought you went to sleep. It should be night where you from. It's daylight here where I am from.

Yes, I saw the pictures. The Church that Christ built is not made of stone. The word "Church" means assembly of people. When Christ spoke to Peter, Christ was speaking in Aramaic, and this is what Christ said, "You are Cephas (rock) and on this Cephas (rock), I will build my Church." Christ did not say that He was going to build His Church at Caesarea Philippi. It was through the Apostle Peter that Christ will build His Church on. Why did you think Peter's name was changed to "Rock." In Aramaic, Cephas means "Rock."

Selene, where is this Aramaic text? It does not exist, does it? Since we do not have the Aramaic text, it is not proper to refer to it as proof of the Roman Catholic position. Why would the Roman Catholic Church resort to using something that we don't have?

Well, let me think about that....

Could it be because your argument is not supported by the Greek text? In fact, that is correct. So, once again you are creating something out of nothing, because the original Greek text does not support your position.

So, if the Church is built on Jesus Christ and not Peter, then that would bring down many of your other doctrines such as your "Old Testament like "priesthood" and transubstantiation (since this "miracle" can only be done by priests).

For the folks that are reading there is this theory called the Aramaic Primacy Theory, and it states that the NT was originally written in Aramaic and not Greek.

Axehead

 

[Selene]

It's 8:45 PM


I know this, the invisible church. But then why is it that your belief insist that we be a member of your assembly "your brick and mortar church?
This sounds like double talk to me, the true church and it's full membership is only know by Christ. Yet your churches official position doesn't say that now does it?

The church in the picture fits the description of the Catholics official church position and statements catechism 811 one church in which flows the water, Spirit essence of Gods salvation "brick and mortar". That looks exactly like the picture. Official statement 838 that if someone is baptized by water in Christ that this church in the picture is also this source, but in an imperfect communion with the mother church at the rivers head. But never the less anyone that receives this water down stream is in union with said church that stands at the mouth. That to is depicted in the picture and is reenforced by your catechism 838 which you tossed out here like you and your church have sort of authority.

What this all boils down to is your church would like to think it is the door. This door you attempt to place in front of all men has long been pulled off its hinges.
The river has long since been diverted as well, Your popes claim to be the vicar of Christ. The list is endless I wont remind you of the details.
Now you stand in the faith you choose, but you deny I have salvation and the presents of the HS on me outside of your brick and mortar church.

In no uncertain terms that's blasphemy of the work of the Holy Spirit. For which there is no forgiveness. Good luck with that.
The Pharisees were accussed by Jesus for blocking the door as well as blasphemy I see you riding that same leaky boat.

BTW Jesus told the Pharisees that not only were they blocking the door that they themselves did not enter in,
Look it up you know the bible I not even going to do you the courtesy of posting the verse.

The invisible Church? Where in the Bible does it say that God's Church is invisible. You ask why the RCC includes Protestants and Orthodox as the body of Christ together with us? It is because there is only ONE body of Christ. God did not created 30,000 different churches. He only created ONE Church. We believe that Church is the RCC; nevertheless, our Catechism says that we bind ourselves together with other Christians as one Body of Christ because we all believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and God incarnate. CCC 838 does say that the RCC binds itself with those who call themselves"Christians" despite that they are not in communion with Rome. It also includes the Eastern Orthodox Church. Together with us, we are one body of Christ. That is what it is saying.

Also, the RCC does not deny anyone salvation because in the first place salvation does not come from us. It comes only from God. What we teach is that salvation comes from God to all who believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[Rex]

It;s a spiritual thing Selene, I sure you wouldn't understand, and it doesn't fit into the RCC catechism very well at all.
So don't worry yourself about it. You have your popes VIP pass to heaven that's all that really matters isn't it.

 

[Selene]

It;s a spiritual thing Selene, I sure you wouldn't understand, and it doesn't fit into the RCC catechism very well at all.
So don't worry yourself about it. You have your popes VIP pass to heaven that's all that really matters isn't it.

Show me biblical scripture saying that the Church God built is invisible.

 

[Rach1370]

I've used the word eisegesis much earlier to describe the Protestant belief system. First, many of you Prots agree that Christianity is a Book Alone faith,so explain to me where in the NT does it say that the Christian faith will be based on a Holy Book alone. Now that is what I call big-time Prot eisegesis.

Wow. Saying that the Protestant belief system is a 'book alone' system is about as erroneous and ignorant as the folks long ago saying the world was flat. As with those people, I suspect you say this just because you lack the correct information. Unlike them, however, you have the very easy means of finding out the correct information, you just seem to be choosing not to.
And quite frankly it's just nonsensical to say that since nowhere in the Bible does it say 'look somewhere else for God's truth', it must mean we should look somewhere else. The also doesn't say not to eat lawnmowers, but I don't see rational people claiming that must mean to be Christians we should go out and chow down.
The simple fact is, you are trying to discredit our beliefs by arguing a negative. It a complete non sequitur, and does not hold up to inspection.
Even a little digging into what Protestants really believe shows a different story to what you represent above. We hold scripture as the highest authority short of God actually appearing in front of us and speaking...simply because it IS God speaking directly to us...he gave us the very words in that book, which means that every single one is essential to our faith and understanding. To dismiss any of the Bible is to dismiss the very message God has given to us. So yeah, we hold the Bible as highest authority. But 'book only'? No. We recognise that ALL teaching, based and backed up by scripture, is beneficial...why bother going to Church or groups otherwise? We also recognise the Holy Spirit...we kind of think He has a pretty huge role in our lives...guiding, rebuking, growing, teaching.

Look, I don't hate Catholics, and I certainly don't like how they get bashed often. But I will not take a Catholic defaming my faith with nothing more than spurious arguments. If you want to talk about how you think my beliefs are off, fine, but come to me with valid arguments that you can back up with scripture.

 

[Rex]

2 Cor 6:16-17
Jer 31:33-34
Eze 11:17-19
Luke 17:21
Matthew 13:33

Please spare me your word games, "church" the bride of Christ is destine for the kingdom of heaven.
If you don't know by now Jesus spoke of the kingdom as being unseen by some.
If you don't understand this then the mystery of God my never be reveled to you.
By simply asking such a question only proves your loss of sight.

Show me biblical scripture saying that the Church God built is invisible.

You know something else Selene I see more women than men standing up for the truth in this forum than I see men.
Not that I care one never mind, but it is a shame so many men don't have the back bone. They simply sit and watch.