Come to me, and I will give you rest. That sure seems like an offer to me. As far as quid pro quo, I don't see that in the Gospel, so I don't know what you have in mind there.
Much love!
TULIP an open discussion
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Much love!
again, I see the simplicity that we receive Jesus in the way John 1 speaks of, and being born again, we are become a child of God, righteous and holy, at peace with Him. To be clear that righteousness and holiness tends to be revealed in us over the course of our lifetimes, just the same, regeneration having trusted in Jesus is what establishes our right standing, and therefore our state of peace with God.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and read near the end of revelation . LET WHO SO EVER WILL COME
that do sound like a offer to me too . Now hit the trenches and point to CHRIST JESUS till the final breath .
and remember , it dont matter what anyone might say about ya mark , you know i loves ya .
Yes, this is often the case in debate between these POV's. Did he really mean that?
Why wouldn't he have meant that?
Jesus said all sins will be forgiven men, except the blaphemy of the Holy Spirit. Did He really mean that?
Paul wrote that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself. Did he really mean that?
I think the Bible means what it says. I think that if we cannot harmonize all the passages according to our view without changing the meanings of what the words say, we need to change our view, not the meanings of the words of Scripture.
I find that pretty much all disagreements over the meaning of Scripture come down to this very thing, whether a certain verse actually means what the words themselves say or not.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yes it is called rightly dividing the word .
You are right my friend . far too many try and rather turn the scrips to fit what they desire to truth .
its why we have so many problems .
like prosperity gospel
social gospel
universalims inclusivism . i mean folks seem to forget the many parts where JESUS warned
would occur to those who rejected and beleived not .
and the parts where he spoke against heaping up that money
or as paul said desiring to be rich etc .
or they heap up some good works and try and sell that as love your nieghbor , yet omit the DIRE PART
of BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST and love your neighbor . strange and diverse teachings indeed .
IF one part contradicts other parts , A HINT , one is misunderstanding that part .
like they do with paul and james . and many other things do some do .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Its called reading it through the lens of men and their doctrines . man that bode well either .
always they pit scrip against scrip and omit parts and add in stuff . not gonna bode well either .
The problem is , most folks had rather have men explain it on a sunday or perhaps even a wednesday night .
BUT DONT SEEM To put time in it every day and read for themselves . way too much world too love and time to spend
having fun i guess . BUT man where is the LOVE for GOD in all of that .
I say get in that bible and love on it and feast upon them pages every day . spend much time in prayer
put some TIME into it . not just at church or etc . but every single day . Now on that note
I DO believe it is time again to PRAISE and to THANK the LORD .
IF most folks spent the time with their girl friend as they do with getting to know the LORD , HECK SHE WOULD SEE RIGHT
THROUGH IT .
i MEAN most folks come to GOD when they have a need or etc , other than that , THEY RUN off and spend time
with anything else . BUT let a man come to a girl and ONLY WHEN HE NEEDS SOMETHING
and then ignores her all the rest of the time and then SAYS OH I LOVE YOU SO MUCH . SHE WONT BUY IT
and NOR WILL GOD BUY IT EITHER . jus a friendly reminder . TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART
and all your mind .
I mean if any ones spouse told them to dothings and they didnt listen , but did the opposite
WOW , see the point yet . if we dont fall for it , WHY DO WE THINK GOD WOULD .
always they pit scrip against scrip and omit parts and add in stuff . not gonna bode well either .
The problem is , most folks had rather have men explain it on a sunday or perhaps even a wednesday night .
BUT DONT SEEM To put time in it every day and read for themselves . way too much world too love and time to spend
having fun i guess . BUT man where is the LOVE for GOD in all of that .
I say get in that bible and love on it and feast upon them pages every day . spend much time in prayer
put some TIME into it . not just at church or etc . but every single day . Now on that note
I DO believe it is time again to PRAISE and to THANK the LORD .
IF most folks spent the time with their girl friend as they do with getting to know the LORD , HECK SHE WOULD SEE RIGHT
THROUGH IT .
i MEAN most folks come to GOD when they have a need or etc , other than that , THEY RUN off and spend time
with anything else . BUT let a man come to a girl and ONLY WHEN HE NEEDS SOMETHING
and then ignores her all the rest of the time and then SAYS OH I LOVE YOU SO MUCH . SHE WONT BUY IT
and NOR WILL GOD BUY IT EITHER . jus a friendly reminder . TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART
and all your mind .
I mean if any ones spouse told them to dothings and they didnt listen , but did the opposite
WOW , see the point yet . if we dont fall for it , WHY DO WE THINK GOD WOULD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
TO LOVE THE LORD GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART .............
and yet some teach there is no need to even have to believe on JESUS the CHRIST .
now dont that seem odd . I mean HAD ONE LOVED GOD would they NOT HAVE LOVED CHRIST who came forth FROM GOD .
oh wait HE SAID THAT TO the unbelieving jews .
I know ol amigo gets right to the point on things . BUT HEY , its MUCH NEEDED to do so .
ALWAYS it be a good thing to examine ourselves , to exhort and to edify and yes EVEN TO CORRECT TOO .
and yet some teach there is no need to even have to believe on JESUS the CHRIST .
now dont that seem odd . I mean HAD ONE LOVED GOD would they NOT HAVE LOVED CHRIST who came forth FROM GOD .
oh wait HE SAID THAT TO the unbelieving jews .
I know ol amigo gets right to the point on things . BUT HEY , its MUCH NEEDED to do so .
ALWAYS it be a good thing to examine ourselves , to exhort and to edify and yes EVEN TO CORRECT TOO .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yes the disagreements do often come for that very reason . You see mostly its because they dont want IT TO MEAN what it says
and want to beleive perhaps some other idea . THUS
well it becomes it cant possiblly mean that , cause .............................................as they justify
their own teaching , concept , even acroynm . see the point yet .
YET even peter , even paul even JESUS warned of the dire need TO CONTINUE unto the end .
And warned exactly what would occur if one did not . see the point yet .
WHILE osas does have truths it also contains things contrary to THE TRUTH .
THE TRUTH IS THIS . IF ONE did come out they were never of us
and the truth is the early church always warned the church TO CONTINUE IN HIM , IN THE FAITH
or else . YEAH THEY DID warn . see the point yet .
YOU SEE THEY were BORN again they did have the SPIRIT , the SPIRIT as DID JESUS CHRIST
was there to HELP and TO GUIDE , to keep safe . HE WARNED , the aposetls warned
so how come some of those warnings are being omitted . that is a problem .
because every word , even warning was and is FOR OUR OWN GOOD . JESUS SURE DO KNOW HOW TO KEEP HIS SHEEP SAFE
and i say WE HEED HIS WARNINGS and HIS TEACHINGS , which the SPIRIT would unction us TO DO
HE CAN KEEP US SAFE and FROM FALLING . I SUGGEST we stick to that pattern and learn it well .
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
It's really only just occurred to me that even as you are saying that we, people, are real, that God is more real, I'm seeing suddenly this doesn't mean to you what it means to me. I place the emphasis on "real", and "more real", of course God is transcendant over us.
But as you continue to use your author and fiction story as your analogy, I realize that's what you mean. Cause and responsibility, author and character, that's how you see us, unless you tell me differently. I'm open to correction.
May I ask this question?
Is it your thinking that God could have created in any way He wanted, maybe so this would happen, or maybe so that would happen. And He chose to create in such a way so as to instigate all actions done in nature and in man. Bank your shot this way, this happens, bank it that way, that happens.
So then the man is a sinner and a murderer, lets say, having made the choices to do so, having been made by God to make those choices. Some have been made in such a way as to make this choice, and some to make that choice.
Is that your view?
Much love!
It’s a wonderful Honour and Privilege to actually know the “ Living” God.in ones heart/ spirit.
It’s also an Honour and Privilege once that happens,...as we have been Born Again of imperishable seed, that seed is the Living Holy Spirit, who birthed our spirit into His, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “.
Once we have received the Spiritual rebirth, The Living word of God will NEVER leave our hearts, as He liveth and abideth in our hearts forever, just as His “ Living “ word says.
It’s all and well quoting reams and reams of scripture, first of all, we need to know the Living God/ Spirit of God in our hearts/ spirit....knowledge of scripture in the intellect is useless and void unless one has been Born Of God, which happens to be His Living Spirit....in other words our spirit needs to be Born Again, no man or woman can do that, it’s a supernatural / Spiritual act of God....it’s the “ Living supernatural/ Spiritual rebirth.
Scripture can never save us..only God’s Living Spirit, when we become Born Of God can save us from eternal damnation.....
God looks at ones “ HEART “ not the “ INTELLECT “.....that’s where he takes up residence in our hearts....not in our intellect/ heads.
My testimony/ opinion and thoughts.
Thanks to those of you that answered my question and voiced your opinion / belief.
It’s also an Honour and Privilege once that happens,...as we have been Born Again of imperishable seed, that seed is the Living Holy Spirit, who birthed our spirit into His, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “.
Once we have received the Spiritual rebirth, The Living word of God will NEVER leave our hearts, as He liveth and abideth in our hearts forever, just as His “ Living “ word says.
It’s all and well quoting reams and reams of scripture, first of all, we need to know the Living God/ Spirit of God in our hearts/ spirit....knowledge of scripture in the intellect is useless and void unless one has been Born Of God, which happens to be His Living Spirit....in other words our spirit needs to be Born Again, no man or woman can do that, it’s a supernatural / Spiritual act of God....it’s the “ Living supernatural/ Spiritual rebirth.
Scripture can never save us..only God’s Living Spirit, when we become Born Of God can save us from eternal damnation.....
God looks at ones “ HEART “ not the “ INTELLECT “.....that’s where he takes up residence in our hearts....not in our intellect/ heads.
My testimony/ opinion and thoughts.
Thanks to those of you that answered my question and voiced your opinion / belief.
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1 Corinthians 12:3 New King James Version (NKJV) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
I understand imperishable seed very differently to you.....
God has already explained what imperishable seed means here in His written word.very easy to understand, therefore not understanding why you posted the above scripture.....?.
There is no mention of imperishable seed in any of those verses you quoted?
Apart Fromm 1 Peter 1:22...
1 Peter 1:22 In-Context 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Imperishable/ incorruptible seed is the seed that is planted into our hearts by the “ Living word of God.
You do understand that Gods seed is Alive and Active in our hearts don’t you?
How can our faith grow in God, if we haven’t received the gift of Faith?
How can you understand God’s “ written word”..without His Spirit residing in your heart?the written word of God,is not His “ Living “ word....you know there is Gods Living word....which is His Spirit that is Alive And everywhere ....?
God’s Spirit is like the wind, you can’t see His Spirit...you certainly know when Spirit gives birth to spirit...as that is the Living Spiritual rebirth..
Gods Living word is His seed...the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Alive And Active in our heart/ spirit , when he gifted us the Faith to believe in the Spirit , we believe in our spirit ,because it’s our spirit that needs to be reborn.......not our intellect or head....23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
It’s by the word of God that we receive the Spiritual rebirth...Gods word is Alive and Active and penetrates the heart of his chosen child ,just as he chose and predestined them to receive His seed into their spirit, the Spirit can only testify that with our spirit that we are God’s children.....that is not man’s or woman’s choice...the Spirit of God has taken up permanent residence in the heart of His child....he doesn’t come and go....being Born Of The Spirit is a done deal....as God’s word says..
1 Peter 1
King James Version
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
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What do you mean that you heard the gospel?...at age 4/8/ 14?
I learnt all about Jesus at school ( secondary)
Your heart would be far from him then...as your spirit hadn’t become Born Again, had it?
Really...so, how could you have been a witness for Jesus without His Spirit?
Yes, I understand the rest of your post...
It’s easy to misunderstand what one is saying in text....if I’ve misquoted or taken posts the wrong way, then please let me know....xx
Context Summary Jesus declares that He and the Father know each other completely and that He can reveal the Father to anyone He chooses. He offers rest for the souls of all who are weighed down and weary if they will take on His yoke, saying that His burden is easy and light.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
My thoughts/ opinions are as follows.
You can’t learn of Jesus, without first being Born of the Spirit....of course one can learn of Him in their own “ human understanding “ but, to learn of Him in truth....one must be Born Of The Spirit, we learn of Jesus via His Spirit....not our own human intellect..
All teaching comes from the Spirit....and only HE can teach us the truth of God’s word.
Therefore He gets all the Glory as the Spirit does the will of the Father through us......we are Spirit led.....not human led, humans know nothing....only the Spirit of God knows all things.....that’s why we must be Born Again to understand the written word of God....
He is our spiritual Father and we learn from Him via His Spirit.
I’ve had to learn via God’s Spirit what the above means, after I became Born Again...
I would weigh myself down with all my problems/ circumstances/ situations....take them on board and carrying them by myself.
He has brought me to a place of understanding this via His Spirit...now my spirit rests as I know he is in control of my life all according to His purpose and plan for my life,....yes, I now have taken on His yoke and yes his burden is easy and light....as I’ve offloaded all of my burdens onto him...he Has them all...
my hope comes from him.
6 Truly he is my rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
7 My salvation and my honor depend on God[a];
he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
Praise His Holy Name.
Matthew 11:28-30
King James Version
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
My thoughts/ opinions are as follows.
You can’t learn of Jesus, without first being Born of the Spirit....of course one can learn of Him in their own “ human understanding “ but, to learn of Him in truth....one must be Born Of The Spirit, we learn of Jesus via His Spirit....not our own human intellect..
All teaching comes from the Spirit....and only HE can teach us the truth of God’s word.
Therefore He gets all the Glory as the Spirit does the will of the Father through us......we are Spirit led.....not human led, humans know nothing....only the Spirit of God knows all things.....that’s why we must be Born Again to understand the written word of God....
He is our spiritual Father and we learn from Him via His Spirit.
I’ve had to learn via God’s Spirit what the above means, after I became Born Again...
I would weigh myself down with all my problems/ circumstances/ situations....take them on board and carrying them by myself.
He has brought me to a place of understanding this via His Spirit...now my spirit rests as I know he is in control of my life all according to His purpose and plan for my life,....yes, I now have taken on His yoke and yes his burden is easy and light....as I’ve offloaded all of my burdens onto him...he Has them all...
Psalm 62:5-7
New International Version
5 Yes, my soul, find rest in God;my hope comes from him.
6 Truly he is my rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
7 My salvation and my honor depend on God[a];
he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
Praise His Holy Name.
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I’ve had to learn all about the yoke of Jesus and one certainly can’t understand what it means without the witness of the Holy Spirit...who leads us through scripture to understand the written word ..
That can take years and years, for the Spirit to open up God’s written word, so that we understand his word in the Spirit ...my opinion/ testimony and belief.
One can’t yoke themselves to Jesus..without knowing him via the Spirit....or becoming Born Again.
Short commentary.
It means to put ourselves under His rule, to join together with Him. He is inviting people to put their shoulders into a new yoke, one in which He is the yoke mate. And He promises that, as they submit to His authority and are yoked with Him, they will find rest for their souls.
That can take years and years, for the Spirit to open up God’s written word, so that we understand his word in the Spirit ...my opinion/ testimony and belief.
One can’t yoke themselves to Jesus..without knowing him via the Spirit....or becoming Born Again.
Short commentary.
It means to put ourselves under His rule, to join together with Him. He is inviting people to put their shoulders into a new yoke, one in which He is the yoke mate. And He promises that, as they submit to His authority and are yoked with Him, they will find rest for their souls.
This is very true, not only for those being drawn by the Spirit's convicting power to Christ through the Word, but is also true for all Christians who are indwelt by the Spirit, as the believer lives out his life in obedience to Christ Jesus.
Through the Word of God we, who believe, are born again by the Spirit onto a living hope - that is the imperishable seed.
By faith in God through the preaching of His Word (Romans 10:15-17), obeying the truth (1 Peter 1:22), we are the Children of Promise whom the Spirit indwells (imperishable seed) as the pledge of an inheritance yet to come (Ephesians 1:13-14).
Are you saying that we are only born again by our knowledge of the word of God, what about the Spirit who give the believer life?
I agree that the Word of God is essential to being born again, but this will not occur unless we believe, and so, receive the Spirit who give us Life.
John 7:37-38 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.
Do you believe that that one can be born again of imperishable seed without the Spirit indwelling us? I ask you this, because the Scriptures teach that we have no part in Christ unless His Spirit indwells us.
Romans 8:9-10 (EWEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his. 10 If Christ is IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive [regeneration] because of righteousness.
Yes
Our faith grows in Christ as we meditate and live by God's Word, walking by His Spirit who indwells us by faith.
1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
The written Word is God's Word, which is "God-Breathed," meaning "inspired" by the Spirit. The Spirit always works with the Word of God, and that is why the Word is living and active.
2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The Spirit works on the mind, as we study God's Word, because the Word is God-Breathed.
2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's children if we believe manifested by continually walking by His Spirit who lives in us.
Romans 8:12 (To the believers in Rome) So then, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if {{by the Spirit}} you {{put to death the deeds of the body}}, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.
1 Thessalonians 4:7-8 (To the Christians in Thessalonica) 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.
You don’t need to read a Bible for God to draw you to Jesus...the Bible doesn’t save you....it’s God’s Spirit that saves..when he births our spirit into His..” Spirit gives birth to spirit.
We are Born Again...by the Living word of God..who is a Living supernatural Spirit?
the “ Living “,word of God....we are are Born Again ....as the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children....God’s word is Alive in Spirit, is it not?
How would we know this?
He speaks and testifies with our spirit as he indwells us, taking up permanent residence in our spirit...it’s a Living supernatural,Spiritual rebirth...you don’t need any Bible to read for that to happen...as His written word says..
We are brought to believe in Jesus initially by God ....you need God given Faith to believe in the Spirit...as his word says, the gift of Faith is a manifestation of the Spirit.
Where does the Spirit of Faith manifest itself in us?
You can’t believe in Jesus, without His witness indwelling our spirit permanently, when we have become Born Again of imperishable seed .
We are Born Again of imperishable seed...that seed is the Living Holy Spirit...who births our spirit into His?
Do you know how he does that?
Our faith can only grow if it was planted by becoming Born Again of imperishable seed.
Meditation on God’s written word is void unless one has received the Spiritual rebirth, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit.
We must know the Spirit in our heart/ spirit......before we can ever understand God’s written word?
How would you know that God’s word is Alive and Active...reading that his word is Alive and Active...is not the same as knowing His word is Alive in Spirit?
Scripture posted.
The Spirit works in the heart of his child to understand the scriptures...then it’s relayed to our mind.
Scripture posted.
That is not what God’s word says.
Heirs with Christ
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.
You and i are on completely opposite on the understanding of scripture...no problem.
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What do you mean being drawn by the convicting power to Christ through the word?
You can only say Jesus is Lord by the power that is within us..when we have been Born Again of imperishable seed...
We have the witness in our heart/ spirit ....without that witness...you wouldn’t know that God even existed.
The witness is Alive in our hearts...witnessing to us all day every day that we have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed...that seed is the Living Holy Spirit....the Living seed of God.
Again, you don’t need any Bible to know that....as I’ve tried to explain to you....God comes to us via his Living Spirit....he doesn’t come to us by the intellect....once I became Born Again of The Spirit....I immediately went out and bought a Bible, checked out what I received.....there I was in God’s written word...Born Again....the Spirit is like the wind, you never know when God will give you the precious Living Spiritual rebirth, as it’s supernatural and can only come via His Living Spirit...
Once we have received the Living Spiritual rebirth only then can we grow/ mature by reading the written word...again the written word must penetrate our heart so that we understand in the Spirit...not in our own human understanding..
His Living word penetrates our heart...not our intellect.
We need to know God in our heart...that can only happen if he chooses to make us Born Of His Spirit..which is a supernatural/ spiritual event, that one will NEVER forget...as his word says.
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I really would not couch Jesus' words 'come to me' and I will give you rest (peace), or even the partial words you quoted in Revelation, as if they are bonus giveaway offers from Christ only, that come with 'his' package deals, if you purchase your salvation now! Offers advertised, that are attached to a purchase of anything, or any kind, means we have complete control on purchasing this 'product,' and we have 'virtually' zero control over this holy, miraculous, and spiritual transformation purchase of salvation!!
And Jesus knew this already of course. Yes, Christ made this purchase of salvation for all those who the Father draws/has drawn to him successfully. His Father finalized entrance and provided this purchase based on if we meet his criteria, worthy to be saved!
Again, as a foot stomp, when Christ spoke these words of coming to him and gaining rest, and others like it, he understood this reality was only based on his Father's decision; that meant that the Father can only make our salvation true, as we have then 'come to Christ' in the process.
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