TWO GOSPELS PREACHED

[Doug]

Why is Paul's gospel so different than Peter, James and John's?

Here are differences in preaching between the twelve apostles and the apostle Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached whosoever believed in the name of Jesus was saved (John 1:12 John 3:16-18 John 20:31 Acts 10:43). There was no mention of reconciliation by the cross (Colossians 1:20), and in fact the understanding of the death and resurrection was hid from the twelve (Luke 18:34).
Paul preached salvation in the name of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:2 1 Corinthians 6:11 Ephesians 5:20) and by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20 Galatians 6:14 Ephesians 2:16).
2) Baptism
The twelve preached salvation upon baptism (Acts 2:38 Mark 16:16)
Paul was not sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17)
3) The Holy Ghost
The twelve preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost upon baptism (Acts 2:38).
Paul preached that the Holy Ghost was received upon belief (Ephesians 1:13).
4) The kingdom
The twelve preached the kingdom gospel of the earthly Davidic kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6).
Paul spoke of a heavenly kingdom (2 Timothy 4:18).
5) The resurrection
The twelve preached Jesus raised from the dead to sit upon the throne of David (Acts 2:30).
Paul preached that Jesus was raised for our justification unto eternal life (Romans 4:25).
6) Salvation
The twelve preached salvation at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19 1 Peter 1:5 1 Peter 1:7).
Paul preached salvation now (Ephesians 2:8).
7) Forgiveness
The twelve preached forgiveness at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19).
Paul preached forgiveness now in Christ (Colossians 1:14).
8) Destination
The twelve were appointed to judge the twelve tribes in the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 22:30). The twelve preached that believing Israel would be given the earthly kingdom (Luke 12:32).
Paul preached the heavenly places for the body of Christ (Ephesians 2:6).

Here are the similarities between the twelve and Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached the name of Jesus (John 1:12).
Paul preached the name of Jesus (Acts 9:29 Romans 1:5 1 Corinthians 1:2).
2) Jesus the Christ, the Son of God
The twelve preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (Matthew 16:16).
Paul preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (2 Corinthians 1:19).
3) The gospel of Christ
The twelve preached the gospel of Christ (Mark 1:1).
Paul preached the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16) but with further revelations made known to him by revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ ( 2 Corinthians 12:7 Ephesians 3:2-7).
It can be decided upon comparing scripture as to whether or not the apostles all preached the same thing.

 

[Doug]

In warfare, one of the greatest mistakes one can ever make is to underestimate the enemy's tactics.
What if Paul was subtly used by Satan to dismiss and demean the Holy Spirit inspired words contained in the "Old" Testament about observing God's commandments? (Ecc 12:13)

I don't know how to answer this except by scripture where Paul said he didn't handle the word deceitfully, which could be dismissed as lies.
I will say that the reverse is true and Satan may want people to reject Paul 2 Corinthians 4:4

 

[Doug]

Why didn't Jesus immediately contact this prolific writing talent right from the beginning?

Paul was selected in due time 1 Corinthians 15:8

 

[Doug]

if all we have to do is: "say the magic words, JESUS IS LORD & believe" in order to acquire salvation?

This is the gospel by which we are saved.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
We are all sinners who can not save ourselves.
See Romans 3:23 Titus 3:5 Romans 5:6

Christ died for our sins; He was our substitute, He paid the full penalty and debt for our sin by his blood sacrifice.
See 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:24 Romans 3:25 Romans 3:26

He was buried.

He rose again for our justification ( to declare us righteous) and forgiveness of all our sin. He gives us His righteousness and eternal life.
See Romans 4:25 Ephesians 1:7 Romans 4:22 Romans 4:23 Romans 4:24 1 Corinthians 1:30

All we have to do is believe the gospel.
See Romans 4:5 1 Corinthians 1:21 Ephesians 1:13

Believing is being persuaded that something is true.
See Romans 4:21

The moment you believe you have eternal life.
Titus 1:1 Titus 1:2 Titus 3:7

Trust the gospel of your salvation. Believe in Jesus Christ to have provided payment for your sins and to give you eternal life. Place your faith in Jesus Christ, in his blood, his death and his resurrection.

 

[Nancy]

Here are differences in preaching between the twelve apostles and the apostle Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached whosoever believed in the name of Jesus was saved (John 1:12 John 3:16-18 John 20:31 Acts 10:43). There was no mention of reconciliation by the cross (Colossians 1:20), and in fact the understanding of the death and resurrection was hid from the twelve (Luke 18:34).
Paul preached salvation in the name of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:2 1 Corinthians 6:11 Ephesians 5:20) and by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20 Galatians 6:14 Ephesians 2:16).
2) Baptism
The twelve preached salvation upon baptism (Acts 2:38 Mark 16:16)
Paul was not sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17)
3) The Holy Ghost
The twelve preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost upon baptism (Acts 2:38).
Paul preached that the Holy Ghost was received upon belief (Ephesians 1:13).
4) The kingdom
The twelve preached the kingdom gospel of the earthly Davidic kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6).
Paul spoke of a heavenly kingdom (2 Timothy 4:18).
5) The resurrection
The twelve preached Jesus raised from the dead to sit upon the throne of David (Acts 2:30).
Paul preached that Jesus was raised for our justification unto eternal life (Romans 4:25).
6) Salvation
The twelve preached salvation at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19 1 Peter 1:5 1 Peter 1:7).
Paul preached salvation now (Ephesians 2:8).
7) Forgiveness
The twelve preached forgiveness at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19).
Paul preached forgiveness now in Christ (Colossians 1:14).
8) Destination
The twelve were appointed to judge the twelve tribes in the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 22:30). The twelve preached that believing Israel would be given the earthly kingdom (Luke 12:32).
Paul preached the heavenly places for the body of Christ (Ephesians 2:6).

Here are the similarities between the twelve and Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached the name of Jesus (John 1:12).
Paul preached the name of Jesus (Acts 9:29 Romans 1:5 1 Corinthians 1:2).
2) Jesus the Christ, the Son of God
The twelve preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (Matthew 16:16).
Paul preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (2 Corinthians 1:19).
3) The gospel of Christ
The twelve preached the gospel of Christ (Mark 1:1).
Paul preached the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16) but with further revelations made known to him by revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ ( 2 Corinthians 12:7 Ephesians 3:2-7).
It can be decided upon comparing scripture as to whether or not the apostles all preached the same thing.

Hi Doug...you cited many good scriptures although, there are the Baptism and salvation topics where is "seems" that Paul is preaching a different Gospel...cannot speak to those without really looking at them but, Paul's Gospel was to the Gentiles, so it had to be somewhat different? (other than who Christ is, of course...and that He raised from the dead).
It also seems that the dispensations come into play as well and , it would be nice to know what you think of the differences in the verses you quoted above as well as what you believe about who will be on the New Earth or in the New Heavens...that is a confusing topic to me but, all the same very intriguing.
God Bless!

 

[Doug]

And what if you (and most of Christianity) are wrong? What if it's Paul that is wrong?
Jesus/Yahshua hand-picked twelve men to declare the true gospel.

Paul was a Pharisee studying nearby at the feet of Gamaliel.
Why didn't Jesus immediately contact this prolific writing talent right from the beginning?
Why is Paul's gospel so different than Peter, James and John's?
Why doesn't any of the "New Testament" writers begin any of their writings with "Thus saith the LORD?"

In warfare, one of the greatest mistakes one can ever make is to underestimate the enemy's tactics.
What if Paul was subtly used by Satan to dismiss and demean the Holy Spirit inspired words contained in the "Old" Testament about observing God's commandments? (Ecc 12:13)

Why would our Savior sternly warn us:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (lawlessness).

if all we have to do is: "say the magic words, JESUS IS LORD & believe" in order to acquire salvation?

Liked your picture...Rockwell my favorite painter...did you ever see Jamie Wyeth...portrait of a pig??

 

[James Forthwright]

Thanks to Doug and Nancy for their thoughtful replies. It will take a while to digest the longer posts. . .

Doug: You failed to address my question regarding Jesus' warning in Mat 7:21-23.

Nancy: Was not Peter also chosen to declare the gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 10 in his vision?

 

[Doug]

It also seems that the dispensations come into play as well and , it would be nice to know what you think of the differences in the verses you quoted above as well as what you believe about who will be on the New Earth or in the New Heavens.

There is not much detail on the new heavens and earth but it can be found in Revelation 21 and 22. Before that there is the thousand year kingdom on earth where Christ reigns from Jerusalem, David also, and the twelve apostles rule. The believing remnant of Israel has authority to reign in the kingdom. All things in heaven and earth will be gathered together in one in Christ.

 

[Nancy]

There is not much detail on the new heavens and earth but it can be found in Revelation 21 and 22. Before that there is the thousand year kingdom on earth where Christ reigns from Jerusalem, David also, and the twelve apostles rule. The believing remnant of Israel has authority to reign in the kingdom. All things in heaven and earth will be gathered together in one in Christ.

Amen... "On earth as it is in Heaven"

 

[Doug]

Why would our Savior sternly warn us:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (lawlessness).

Jesus here was talking of the kingdom of heaven in v21....the kingdom is the kingdom of heaven come down to earth....it is the promised Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel reigns with Christ in the kingdom on earth for a thousand years. The believing Israel will enter the unbelieving Israel will not.

 

[James Forthwright]

Jesus here was talking of the kingdom of heaven in v21....the kingdom is the kingdom of heaven come down to earth....it is the promised Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel reigns with Christ in the kingdom on earth for a thousand years. The believing Israel will enter the unbelieving Israel will not.

That's quite a bit of fancy ecclesiastical tap dancing, Doug. Not quite sure what you mean by "believing Israel"?

Care to list a few examples of OT casting out of demons?

 

[Nancy]

Thanks to Doug and Nancy for their thoughtful replies. It will take a while to digest the longer posts. . .

Doug: You failed to address my question regarding Jesus' warning in Mat 7:21-23.

Nancy: Was not Peter also chosen to declare the gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 10 in his vision?

Oh yes, sure he was to declare the Gospel to any and all but, Paul was specifically chosen to bring the gentiles into the Kingdom.

Galatians

"But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,"


Galatians 2:9
"and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the
circumcised.


Acts 22:21
And He said to me, ‘Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”

 

[farouk]

Oh yes, sure he was to declare the Gospel to any and all but, Paul was specifically chosen to bring the gentiles into the Kingdom.

Galatians

"But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,"


Galatians 2:9
"and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

@Nancy Different audience from a Jewish one, same basic and glorious Gospel...

 

[Nancy]

@Nancy Different audience from a Jewish one, same basic and glorious Gospel...

Exactly!

 

[James Forthwright]

Oh yes, sure he was to declare the Gospel to any and all but, Paul was specifically chosen to bring the gentiles into the Kingdom.

But it's mostly Paul (and his traveling companions) that stakes the claim of the Gentiles solely for himself.

 

[farouk]

Exactly!

@Nancy....indeed...

 

[James Forthwright]

@Nancy Different audience from a Jewish one, same basic and glorious Gospel...

But were the gospels of the Church of Jerusalem and Paul's message really the same? Peter, James and John never dismiss the relevancy of God's Law. Paul routinely does.

 

[farouk]

But were the gospels of the Church of Jerusalem and Paul's message really the same? Peter, James and John never dismiss the relevancy of God's Law. Paul routinely does.

I don't agree with your premise.

Hebrews tells us that the law was changed.

What we now have is better than the law.

 

[James Forthwright]

I don't agree with your premise.

Hence the reason for us having a Debate Forum.

Hebrews tells us that the law was changed.

The Book of Hebrews is generally believed to have been written by Paul, so it's circular reasoning to argue the same author's opinion of his previous dissertations on the expediency of God's Law.

What we now have is better than the law.

According to whom? Paul? Why should the Almighty alter the basis of His Covenant with mankind?

 

[farouk]

Hence the reason for us having a Debate Forum.



The Book of Hebrews is generally believed to have been written by Paul, so it's circular reasoning to argue that the same author's opinion of his previous dissertations on the expediency of God's Law.



According to whom? Paul? Why should the Almighty alter the basis of His Covenant with mankind?

The law was changed: Hebrews 7.12.

What we now have is better than the law, Hebrews 7.19.