Two Narratives: The Truth and The Lie.

[ScottA]

There are many things that were foretold that would come during these times--and the common narrative is only part.

The part that is not told is simply not believed, as if it could never happen "to us." Most simply omit that part of what is written. History repeats itself. Israel, the priests, the leaders, and the masses all believed they were on the right path--and they were "the chosen people of God." That is the precedence we now follow, and what--we shall be treated better than they? That is not the promise. Just the opposite.

Oh, but it could never happen to us!​

Just as with Israel, the Church has carried the words of God forward to these many generations, some seeing, hearing, and believing the words of truth nearly obscured beneath the teachings of men--men of whom were only blind themselves. Thus, two narratives: The truth and the lies.

Nonetheless, when have you heard a leader preach or teach, saying..."Or it could all be a lie--just as it was foretold?"

So the most popular narrative is not only most commonly believed, but is preached and taught with complete disregard for the warnings that were given--not what might happen--but what was sure to happen according to the word of God. And I am struggling to just spit it out--but the common belief in all of Christendom is as false as it is true. False, because the gospels where made to fit the narrative of lies also taught, and yet justified and believed because the gospels are there among the lies. And true, because it was foretold.

The end result for Israel was "See! Your house is left to you desolate." Matthew 23:38

The foretold end result for the Church for having believed and propagated the "lie", is this:

“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 24:51
​

And if you didn't catch it, the lie is there also. If you don't believe it--just ask whoever is preaching or teaching, "Has Jesus delayed His coming?"

 

[ScottA]

The greatest issue here, which is the greatest issue in the Church of these times of the gentiles, is indeed the believing of lies instead of what Jesus said, and what He, Peter, and Paul warned of. But it is also what that leaves us with and the result of great apostacy. Not only are there two narratives, there is a great divide, just as Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Matthew 10:34

Just as Moses had set before Israel "life and death", resulting in God's plans going forward in spite of Israel's folly ending in their downfall and betrayal of Christ; which incidentally, was the same choice given to Adam and Eve in the garden resulting in the death of all mankind--unless we also "put out our hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— In this same way, Jesus likewise set before the Church life and death, that we too would make our own final choice of who it is we would follow. That choice laid the very foundation of what has become--literally--two churches. The choice was between following "flesh and blood" or following the "Father":

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:13-19​

Of course this choice was not set before the Church as obviously as it was stated by Moses to Israel, because they were only hearing it for the second time since Adam. But we were hearing it for the third time, and should have known better (but didn't). The choice then was that of two rocks on which to build the Church upon: one of "flesh and blood" and the other the Rock of ages. As for stating the choice clearly, in all honesty--He did clearly state which choice should "not" be built upon.

Nonetheless, the keys were given to Peter and a church of "flesh and blood" ensued. The rest is history. But the point is not to make this a Catholic issue--that would be foolish. They carried the water of the gospel and did and still do many good things...yet only within their chosen limit of "flesh and blood." As it is written: “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given."
Mark 4:24 They simply "heard" what they heard, and got what they got. As for the "more will be given" part--that part they did not "hear."

However, God is under no such limit as "flesh and blood" and all the wonderful things that have been promised and written, therefore make up another Church built upon the Rock of ages in heavenly places. Two narratives, two churches.

What does that look like?
​

It looks like what is seen...and also like there's nothing more--because of what is not seen. "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

And just how does that fit with believing the "lie" and the "evil servant" who is "cut in two and appoint his portion with the hypocrites?" Is it a loss of salvation?
​

No, but only to those who prefer it, while their victims are merely "cut" out of enjoying the fulness of salvation until they die, when "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Again--this is not a Catholic issue. There are many denominations whose doctrine is based on, "My master is delaying his coming."

Two narratives, two churches.

 

[Marty fox]

The greatest issue here, which is the greatest issue in the Church of these times of the gentiles, is indeed the believing of lies instead of what Jesus said, and what He, Peter, and Paul warned of. But it is also what that leaves us with and the result of great apostacy. Not only are there two narratives, there is a great divide, just as Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Matthew 10:34

Just as Moses had set before Israel "life and death", resulting in God's plans going forward in spite of Israel's folly ending in their downfall and betrayal of Christ; which incidentally, was the same choice given to Adam and Eve in the garden resulting in the death of all mankind--unless we also "put out our hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— In this same way, Jesus likewise set before the Church life and death, that we too would make our own final choice of who it is we would follow. That choice laid the very foundation of what has become--literally--two churches. The choice was between following "flesh and blood" or following the "Father":

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:13-19​

Of course this choice was not set before the Church as obviously as it was stated by Moses to Israel, because they were only hearing it for the second time since Adam. But we were hearing it for the third time, and should have known better (but didn't). The choice then was that of two rocks on which to build the Church upon: one of "flesh and blood" and the other the Rock of ages. As for stating the choice clearly, in all honesty--He did clearly state which choice should "not" be built upon.

Nonetheless, the keys were given to Peter and a church of "flesh and blood" ensued. The rest is history. But the point is not to make this a Catholic issue--that would be foolish. They carried the water of the gospel and did and still do many good things...yet only within their chosen limit of "flesh and blood." As it is written: “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given."
Mark 4:24 They simply "heard" what they heard, and got what they got. As for the "more will be given" part--that part they did not "hear."

However, God is under no such limit as "flesh and blood" and all the wonderful things that have been promised and written, therefore make up another Church built upon the Rock of ages in heavenly places. Two narratives, two churches.

What does that look like?
​

It looks like what is seen...and also like there's nothing more--because of what is not seen. "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

And just how does that fit with believing the "lie" and the "evil servant" who is "cut in two and appoint his portion with the hypocrites?" Is it a loss of salvation?
​

No, but only to those who prefer it, while their victims are merely "cut" out of enjoying the fulness of salvation until they die, when "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Again--this is not a Catholic issue. There are many denominations whose doctrine is based on, "My master is delaying his coming."

Two narratives, two churches.

I believe that the conforming church will be the reason satan is released

 

[ScottA]

I believe that the conforming church will be the reason satan is released

Hmmm, "conforming church" must be a term of its own meaning and not just defined by the definition of the words. I don't recognize it.

Anyway, Satan is even now released since God poured out His spirit upon all flesh beginning at Pentecost, meaning upon both the good and the evil. This is that time of his being bound which is from Israel, and also loosed which is unto the gentiles. It is both, and the cause of the abomination that makes desolation, for he has entered into the holy place which is the body of Christ, the church.

 

[Marty fox]

Hmmm, "conforming church" must be a term of its own meaning and not just defined by the definition of the words. I don't recognize it.

Anyway, Satan is even now released since God poured out His spirit upon all flesh beginning at Pentecost, meaning upon both the good and the evil. This is that time of his being bound which is from Israel, and also loosed which is unto the gentiles. It is both, and the cause of the abomination that makes desolation, for he has entered into the holy place which is the body of Christ, the church.

It means that some of the church (not all) has been conforming to the ways of the world

 

[marks]

It means that some of the church (not all) has been conforming to the ways of the world

Is that in contrast to "the transforming church"?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

The issue still remains:

The forces of anti-Christ were already at work during the startup of the Church, and great apostacy and delusion of our beliefs were foretold for our time.
​

But who has questioned what has been believed since that time?

No one?

Were Jesus, Peter, and Paul wrong to foretell it?​

 

[DanielConway]

Jesus said:

8And he said, “Beware that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name and say, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is near!’ Do not go after them.

Jesus said:

33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

2nd Corinthians says:

4For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.

Pay no attention to this clown. Salvation is given today as it was given by Christ 2000 years ago. Only believe that Jesus was the only begotten son of God, that he led a sinless life, was crucified and shed his blood to atone for ALL our sins, and that he rose triumphant on the third day securing our eternal justification with the father thereby (justification = giving us the stratus of children of God and co heirs with Jesus).