Two Questions About The Temple

[Marcus O'Reillius]

It must also be remembered that this Antichrist is represented by a beast in Revelation 13:1-3. Everywhere else in scripture prophetic beasts represent kingdoms or empires. Without exception. God is consistent with His symbolism.

There is a beast of a nation, and there is a beast of a man.

Satan is portrayed as a dragon, but so too is the possessed kingdom.

In this case, the description is apt, and it is applied in more than one way.

 

[StanJ]

There is a beast of a nation, and there is a beast of a man.

Satan is portrayed as a dragon, but so too is the possessed kingdom.

In this case, the description is apt, and it is applied in more than one way.

I agree, as symbolism, hyperbole and metaphor are based on the context of their use.

 

[brakelite]

The anti-Christ is the man of lawlessness. Let's just stick to the OP and not and bring up all kinds of irrelevant issues.

Really Stan, you are so transparent. Because you are unwilling to face up to some unpalatable truth, you write it off as an irrelevant issue. Get real my friend,

• whether the Antichrist be understood as man or nation is highly relevant, as it means death to all who would be deceived who would not understand the truth.
• Whether the man of sin/lawlessness is understood to be a future individual or a present institution is highly relevant when so many are devoted to its cause and deceived by its teachings
• Whether any future literal temple can be rightly understood to fulfill the prophetic word in 2Thess. as being 'the temple of God' is highly relevant as it divides those who are waiting for a future individual to seat himself in it, and those who are aware of the present danger of the one already seated in the church.

Such points above are all relevant to the OP as they all contribute in one way or another to a full appreciation of the grave dangers lying ahead of a church already confused, deceived, ignorant, and running head long into a crisis of identity from which there shall be no escape. Understanding the above 'relevant' issues fully and correctly will mean all the difference between those who will accept the mark of the beast and becoming a part of the great whore and the false worship that entails, and those who according to Revelation 12:17;14:12 will resist and escape because by the grace of God they keep the commandments of God (in contradistinction to those who choose to become a part of the man of lawlessness) they have the faith of Jesus, and they have the testimony of Jesus (which is the spirit of prophecy) .

Highly relevant Stan. Life and death relevant. And all intimately and irrevocably connected to the OP.
Mt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mr 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Lu 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Re 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Please note everyone that the biggest danger to the church according to Jesus and those others who wrote NT warnings to the church, is deception. It is through deception that Satan has his way on the earth. It is through deception that false worship is so prevalent. It is through deception that men in the last days are to receive the mark of the beast. Deception. Deception. Deception on every hand. Yet what we have today in the church is a teaching that is so widespread, so publicized, so popular, that even non-church people understand it. They may not believe it , but they have reasonably intimate familiarity with the issues. The future individual demon possessed dictator who takes over the newly established Jewish temple opposing everything remotely connected with Christianity, enforcing false worship and idolatry , and enforcing a mark which controls the buying and selling powers of the world. With a few variations, this is generally accepted as Biblical truth. It has been the subject of Hollywood movies both secular and 'Christian', it has been the theme in countless novels and even book series, it has been written of in major journals and publications worldwide such as Newsweek and Time magazines, it is a constant subject in Christianity Today, and appears repeatedly on blog and discussion sites throughout the internet.

That being the case, does it not make you dear reader even the slightest bit suspicious that if such a scenario was to take place, because of the familiarity of the issues, very few would actually in the end be deceived? Where would be the deception? How could anyone be deceived when everyone already is aware of what is happening?

Whereas if that entire scenario as described above was a lie, if that whole understanding of the prophetic picture was an error and a false teaching, then my friends, then would be the greatest deception ever perpetrated upon mankind. For it is indeed a great satanic deception when he has succeeded in deceiving the church itself into teaching a false prophetic interpretation of the entire future reign of the Antichrist. Already he has the main potential opposition on his side, and they don't know it! Even the majority of the church would be taken in and gladly join in the coming beast power because they would still be waiting for the future fulfillment of the lie. Note the colored portion of the above scripture quote. It is in fact the people who create the image to the beast. It isn't the 1st beast itself, nor is it the second beast, but the people who are under the rule of the second beast. It is therefore a democracy! Tell me, what nation is not only a democracy today, but a democracy powerful enough to eventually influence the rest of the world? It is none other than the United States of America who is the second beast, and is purportedly a Christian nation! Is it not the 'Christian' US who is the prime motivator and disseminator behind the futurist prophetic paradigm? The entire end time actions of Antichrist are taken aboard by the people of their own free will! It is the people who establish, by their approval and active participation, the false worship so starkly described in Revelation 13. It is not by force, not by coercion, not through persecution...but by deception!

There is a crisis coming the magnitude of which we have little comprehension. Jesus called it “distress of nations with perplexity”. There will be no answers, no solutions, no way out.
Remember 9/11? For a month or two after that everyone and their cocker spaniel went to church and confessed faith in ‘God’. And, to my personal horror, the US president decides to get up into the pulpit and proclaim from there, as if he was preaching a ‘godly Christian evangelical gospel message’...”he who is not with us is against us”. I got real angry at that. But on another level was not surprised. In the coming crisis we will witness the same again. Churches will be packed. The churches will unite together, and even with the government, in standing against a common threat.
The problem is that they will all be united, not on the basis of Biblical or doctrinal truth…not on the basis of a desire to share the gospel with the world…not on the basis of sharing the love of Jesus with their neighbours…but purely and simply out of self preservation. Jesus said that the rulers will have no solutions, and everyone will be panicking. So they turn to religion. Not the religion taught in thew Bible, but the religion taught on TV and espoused by the popular press and media. It will be a mixture of New age…apostate Protestantism…and Roman Catholicism. The confusion of Babylon the Great. They will offer up prayers and make all manner of well meaning and pious pronouncements and a pretense of repentance while the crisis deepens, and when no answers come, will look around for some-one to blame who hasn’t joined them in their sincere but hopeless charade. That some-one who they will target will be those who refuse to worship their global church/state union and image of the medieval papal beast, and who refuse to accept the ‘mark’ of the beast’s authority. And my friend, this mark has nothing to do with fiscal convenience. It has everything to do with worship and loyalty to the true Creator God. The fiscal aspect…that is the buying and selling aspect…is merely an inducement to accept the mark. An inducement to worship according to the dictates of man. Other inducement will be fines, then jail, and finally the death sentence.
The coming crisis will reveal the true character of both the righteous and the wicked. It will not form character, but expose it. Thus will the true fruits be revealed of who belongs to Jesus , and who doesn’t. The harvest will then be seen to be ripe, both wheat and tares are ripe for harvest, the angels will first come and bundle the tares to be burned,then the wheat to be gathered into God’s barn. (See Revel. 14))
Armageddon is the war that precedes this. A war that ensues between the false ‘Christian’ world, and the true. Remember, the entire world is caught up in this crisis. The entire world joins with the beast and the false prophet to worship the false counterfeit system….the nations of the world unite against God’s people, spiritual Israel. Remember also what Jesus said about His true followers at this time? They will be called to testify before Kings and before the rulers of this world. They will be called to account for their ‘heresy’ before the courts. It will be a repeat of the dark ages, only on a global scale.
Do any of you dear readers now begin to understand how a focus on the Middle East and upon literal Israel is just a red herring of the enemy of our souls and part of his deceptions? There is far more import to your being prepared for the coming crisis than simply observing the politics of the Middle east. You need to be personally prepared. You need to know what you believe, and why. Because my friends, you will be called to defend your beliefs before a world that will hate everything you claim to stand for. All the while they will be claiming to stand for the truth, and you being inspired of Satan.
“If they call the Master of the house Beelzebub, what will they do to His servants”.

 

[StanJ]

Your onerous response still doesn't address the OP brakelite. Maybe you should read it again? In any event even when the OP does get answered he refuses to accept the answer and just equivocates more, pretty much like you're doing here.
I just prefer to deal with the OP and not digress or take off down multiple rabbit trails...apparently you LIKE coming up with irrelevant rabbit trails.

 

[brakelite]

Stan, if you are confused in your understanding of God's word and fail to see the true meaning of Antichrist, you will surely place yourself on the side of Antichrist. If the Antichrist you espouse does come to power, no-one will be deceived. Satan's venture to deceive the world will be a failure. The scripture however gives powerful testimony that the opposite sadly will prevail. Satan will find great success in his deceptions of these last days, apart from a small remnant. Just as in the days of Lot. Just as in the days of Noah.
Only those who are diligent seekers of truth, who love truth as a principle in the life, who are willing to surrender personal bias and tradition to cleave to the truth as revealed to them, will in the final analysis be sheilded from the powerful delusion that is even now taking its grip upon God's people. The final question that will have to be answered by every living soul upon the earth in these last days will be..."Am I willing to obey God rather than man?"

The challenges asked by the OP were not answered. The question was asked to discern on what basis the futurist interpretation of a literal temple was accepted. It has been revealed by the OP that the only basis such a literal interpretation is believed is on he basis of Jesuit teaching. In other words, the Antichrist himself has succeeded in diverting the church away from truth to an invention. Despite the unanimous testimony of the reformers and to Protestantism since then up till only recently, the modern church has been deceived into a futurist paradigm that hides 2000 years of church history, written in the blood of millions of martyrs at the hands of the very institution you now refuse to identify as Antichrist, even though Biblical testimony calls loudly for you to reconsider. Because the OP challenges were not answered, further evidence was called for. This also has been rejected as 'rabbit trails', 'irrelevancies'. If you are finally lost because you are unable to discern the truth, you will have only yourself to blame.

 

[Phoneman777]

Stan, if you are confused in your understanding of God's word and fail to see the true meaning of Antichrist, you will surely place yourself on the side of Antichrist. If the Antichrist you espouse does come to power, no-one will be deceived. Satan's venture to deceive the world will be a failure. The scripture however gives powerful testimony that the opposite sadly will prevail. Satan will find great success in his deceptions of these last days, apart from a small remnant. Just as in the days of Lot. Just as in the days of Noah.
Only those who are diligent seekers of truth, who love truth as a principle in the life, who are willing to surrender personal bias and tradition to cleave to the truth as revealed to them, will in the final analysis be sheilded from the powerful delusion that is even now taking its grip upon God's people. The final question that will have to be answered by every living soul upon the earth in these last days will be..."Am I willing to obey God rather than man?"

The challenges asked by the OP were not answered. The question was asked to discern on what basis the futurist interpretation of a literal temple was accepted. It has been revealed by the OP that the only basis such a literal interpretation is believed is on he basis of Jesuit teaching. In other words, the Antichrist himself has succeeded in diverting the church away from truth to an invention. Despite the unanimous testimony of the reformers and to Protestantism since then up till only recently, the modern church has been deceived into a futurist paradigm that hides 2000 years of church history, written in the blood of millions of martyrs at the hands of the very institution you now refuse to identify as Antichrist, even though Biblical testimony calls loudly for you to reconsider. Because the OP challenges were not answered, further evidence was called for. This also has been rejected as 'rabbit trails', 'irrelevancies'. If you are finally lost because you are unable to discern the truth, you will have only yourself to blame.

Because of Jesuit Futurism, the Papacy has convinced millions of Protestant Christians like Stan that the Antichrist will arise outside of the church and then infiltrate the church, when the Scriptures plainly teach otherwise. Jesus Himself called Judas the "son of perdition" and willfully ignorant Jesuit Futurists can't understand that Judas first surrendered to Jesus and worked miracles by Him, but then APOSTATIZED and went out from Jesus and betrayed Him. Cannot Jesuit Futurists see that Paul's "son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:4 KJV) will do the exact same thing, especially when John tells us this very same thing (1 John 2:18-19 KJV) as well? May God open their eyes before they wake up a thousand years too late in the resurrection of damnation.

 

[StanJ]

Stan, if you are confused in your understanding of God's word and fail to see the true meaning of Antichrist, you will surely place yourself on the side of Antichrist. If the Antichrist you espouse does come to power, no-one will be deceived. Satan's venture to deceive the world will be a failure. The scripture however gives powerful testimony that the opposite sadly will prevail. Satan will find great success in his deceptions of these last days, apart from a small remnant. Just as in the days of Lot. Just as in the days of Noah.
Only those who are diligent seekers of truth, who love truth as a principle in the life, who are willing to surrender personal bias and tradition to cleave to the truth as revealed to them, will in the final analysis be sheilded from the powerful delusion that is even now taking its grip upon God's people. The final question that will have to be answered by every living soul upon the earth in these last days will be..."Am I willing to obey God rather than man?"

The challenges asked by the OP were not answered. The question was asked to discern on what basis the futurist interpretation of a literal temple was accepted. It has been revealed by the OP that the only basis such a literal interpretation is believed is on he basis of Jesuit teaching. In other words, the Antichrist himself has succeeded in diverting the church away from truth to an invention. Despite the unanimous testimony of the reformers and to Protestantism since then up till only recently, the modern church has been deceived into a futurist paradigm that hides 2000 years of church history, written in the blood of millions of martyrs at the hands of the very institution you now refuse to identify as Antichrist, even though Biblical testimony calls loudly for you to reconsider. Because the OP challenges were not answered, further evidence was called for. This also has been rejected as 'rabbit trails', 'irrelevancies'. If you are finally lost because you are unable to discern the truth, you will have only yourself to blame.

No confusion whatsoever on my part brakelite, but typically with people of your ilk that is all you end up resorting to, dispersions. Pretty sad.

I have no problem with what God has planned and even though I doubt I will be alive when the anti-Christ does make his appearance, I look forward to my savior's return.

This whole obsession on Jesuits only proves one thing, an imbalance in reading and properly exegeting scripture.

The only lost people I see are the ones trying to teach fallacious theories and interpretations. NOTHING can separate me from the LOVE of God.

 

[brakelite]

No confusion whatsoever on my part brakelite, but typically with people of your ilk that is all you end up resorting to, dispersions. Pretty sad.

I have no problem with what God has planned and even though I doubt I will be alive when the anti-Christ does make his appearance, I look forward to my savior's return.

This whole obsession on Jesuits only proves one thing, an imbalance in reading and properly exegeting scripture.

The only lost people I see are the ones trying to teach fallacious theories and interpretations. NOTHING can separate me from the LOVE of God.

Again, your only response is another strawman argument. I did not say you were confused Stan. Read my post again. It said if you are confused, over the meaning of Antichrist. I now am one of an ilk? Oh dear, that cannot be good. Though I do not remember meeting one, don't they have big antlers and charge people in the forest?
Phoneman and I have presented a perspective on prophecy which reveals that a particular eschatological mindset was invented by a particular Jesuit in the 17th century, Ribera. I believe this is the only charge we have made against the Jesuits in this thread, and as far as I can remember, the only thread. Ribera's creation was adopted by a certain Darby bloke and then Schofield, and has since taken off. It is a modern phenomenon, and has found huge success among Christian teaching. So much so that what the reformers were once unanimous on, is now debunked completely by their children. And on what grounds? The say so of a representative of the bery church that the reformers identified as the antichrist which identity futurism completely obliterates. The obsession Stan you speak of isn't on my part....the obsession lies with those who cling so tenaciously to a futurist paradigm irrespective of all the evidence which exists to the contrary.
Your last line Stan I agree with. But again, you twist slightly what I said. For the third time in one post.

• I didn't say you were confused.
• I wasn't casting aspersions
• I did not suggest you were lost.

 

[StanJ]

Again, your only response is another strawman argument. I did not say you were confused Stan. Read my post again. It said if you are confused, over the meaning of Antichrist. I now am one of an ilk? Oh dear, that cannot be good. Though I do not remember meeting one, don't they have big antlers and charge people in the forest?
Phoneman and I have presented a perspective on prophecy which reveals that a particular eschatological mindset was invented by a particular Jesuit in the 17th century, Ribera. I believe this is the only charge we have made against the Jesuits in this thread, and as far as I can remember, the only thread. Ribera's creation was adopted by a certain Darby bloke and then Schofield, and has since taken off. It is a modern phenomenon, and has found huge success among Christian teaching. So much so that what the reformers were once unanimous on, is now debunked completely by their children. And on what grounds? The say so of a representative of the bery church that the reformers identified as the antichrist which identity futurism completely obliterates. The obsession Stan you speak of isn't on my part....the obsession lies with those who cling so tenaciously to a futurist paradigm irrespective of all the evidence which exists to the contrary.
Your last line Stan I agree with. But again, you twist slightly what I said. For the third time in one post.

• I didn't say you were confused.
• I wasn't casting aspersions
• I did not suggest you were lost.

It can't be my strawman if YOU brought it up. It doesn't matter how you word it, the intent is clearly there otherwise it would be useless to voice it, if you really didn't think it.

Yes, another word for 'kind' or 'type' or 'position'. Apparently you don't really know the meaning of the word 'ilk'?

I'm dealing with the Bible, not what past people in history have expressed. My teacher is Christ and His word. Your conspiratorial paranoia is just that.
It would appear if any person agreed with one point of Calvin's overall doctrine, then you would call them a Calvinist.

Conveying something and then denying it is only disingenuous in my book.

 

[JimParker]

Many Christians today subscribe to the view of Jesuit Futurism which teaches that there will be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem called the “Temple of God” in which a future Antichrist will arise and sit down on a literal throne and deceive people into believing that he is the long awaited Christ who has finally returned. We should consider the following questions:

1) Would God refer to any rebuilt temple in Jerusalem as the “Temple of God” in which the sacrifices offered would be a national rejection of Messiah the Prince and a collective Jewish middle finger in the face of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

2) Since the “Temple of God” in heaven (Revelation 11:19 KJV) and our heavenly High Priest Jesus (Hebrews 8:1-2 KJV) have both always been the “anti-types” to which the earthly “types” pointed, would God refer to any rebuilt temple in Jerusalem – which temple and its associated priesthood would be utterly useless and completely irrelevant to Him – as the “Temple of God”?

The obvious answer is “no”. To what, then, was Paul referring when he spoke of the Antichrist who is to sit in the “temple of God, showing himself that he is God” in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 KJV?

The view of Protestant Historicism is that the phrase “temple of God” is a prophetic symbol interpreted to mean the “church” based on the fact that every single time Paul refers to the church as a “temple” he uses the Greek “naos” – the exact same word translated “temple” in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 KJV:

• 
  1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
  
• 
  1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV
  
• 
  1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
  
• 
  2 Corinthians 6:16 KJV
  
• 
  Ephesians 2:21 KJV
  

Protestant Historicism teaches that Antichrist – which means “for Christ”; “in place of Christ”; “instead of Christ”; “in behalf of Christ” – is the Papacy, where the man at the head of the Papal system, the Pope, has from since its inception in 538 A.D. usurped Christ's seat of authority over the church and has there seated himself claiming to be “God on earth”, “Jesus Christ Himself hidden under the veil of flesh”, “Holy Father”, “Dispenser of Grace”, etc... – all titles and attributes that belong to Jesus Christ alone. The Antichrist could not arise so long as the Caesars occupied the throne in Rome, as unanimously taught by the Early Church Fathers, but once the Roman Empire fell, the Papacy arose swiftly and the “Man of Sin” seated himself over the church in the very seat vacated by the Caesars, and the line of succession of Popes has done so throughout history.

The Jews may tear down the Islamic “Dome of the Rock”.
They may rebuild a third Jewish temple.
They may offer meaningless sacrifices, offerings, and incense just as they continued to do after God tore the veil of the second Temple in half to signify that He was done with all such things.

They may claim that this rebuilt temple is the “Temple of God”, but it will never be His temple, for the only temple on earth that God considers the “Temple of God” is built not of stones, but of those who are in Christ Jesus.

<<Protestant Historicism teaches that Antichrist – which means “for Christ”; “in place of Christ”; “instead of Christ”; “in behalf of Christ” – is the Papacy,>>

That's "Protestant HYSTERICISM."

What Protestants did was to rebel against the church which Christ had founded and then embark on 100 years of warfare during which princes, and kings, used religion as an excuse to increase their power through the application of murder, mayhem, rape and pillage "in Jesus' name." One of the slogans they invented to incite the ignorant peasants against the Catholics was that the Pope was the anti-Christ. And you still babble that same, demonic, crap 500 years later to make sure that the level of hatred is kept up. Stand must be delighted with your work.

Jesus never told anyone to hate anyone. But you seem to take great pride and delight in your hatred for the Catholic Church and in being an evangelist for hatred. I guess you think that's "godly." You might make a good PR man for ISIS or the KKK.

What do you imagine "Jesuit futurism" is? Did you just make that up or did your Grand Klaxton teach it to you?

Do you have an original edition collection of all of Jack Chick's little comic-book tracts on why you must hate Catholics to be a good Christian?

Just curious. So many people claim to love the Lord but hate their brothers & sisters in the Catholic church.

Just to let you know, the apostle John said you're all liars. 1Jo 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

I'm going to go have a nice day now. You have a nice day too and see how YOU like it.

 

[Phoneman777]

<<Protestant Historicism teaches that Antichrist – which means “for Christ”; “in place of Christ”; “instead of Christ”; “in behalf of Christ” – is the Papacy,>>

That's "Protestant HYSTERICISM."

What Protestants did was to rebel against the church which Christ had founded and then embark on 100 years of warfare during which princes, and kings, used religion as an excuse to increase their power through the application of murder, mayhem, rape and pillage "in Jesus' name." One of the slogans they invented to incite the ignorant peasants against the Catholics was that the Pope was the anti-Christ. And you still babble that same, demonic, crap 500 years later to make sure that the level of hatred is kept up. Stand must be delighted with your work.

Jesus never told anyone to hate anyone. But you seem to take great pride and delight in your hatred for the Catholic Church and in being an evangelist for hatred. I guess you think that's "godly." You might make a good PR man for ISIS or the KKK.

What do you imagine "Jesuit futurism" is? Did you just make that up or did your Grand Klaxton teach it to you?

Do you have an original edition collection of all of Jack Chick's little comic-book tracts on why you must hate Catholics to be a good Christian?

Just curious. So many people claim to love the Lord but hate their brothers & sisters in the Catholic church.

Just to let you know, the apostle John said you're all liars. 1Jo 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

I'm going to go have a nice day now. You have a nice day too and see how YOU like it.

Thanks for your opinion. Please understand that I hate no one - I hate error because it leads to loss of eternal life. It is actually those who refuse to rebuke their brother who are guilty of hate (Leviticus 19:17 KJV).

 

[JimParker]

Thanks for your opinion. Please understand that I hate no one - I hate error because it leads to loss of eternal life. It is actually those who refuse to rebuke their brother who are guilty of hate (Leviticus 19:17 KJV).

<<Please understand that I hate no one>>

Sure fooled me! Sounds like you hate the pope and the whole Roman Catholic Church.

I'd like to believe your words but your actions are too loud.

 

[StanJ]

Vehemence against Roman Catholicism or Protestantism is equally wrong. Let's try to make points WITHOUT all the ad hominems.

 

[Phoneman777]

<<Please understand that I hate no one>>

Sure fooled me! Sounds like you hate the pope and the whole Roman Catholic Church.

I'd like to believe your words but your actions are too loud.

Sir, I have already told you that I hate the errors of Catholic doctrine (as well as errors found in Protestant doctrine), but I love Catholic people and if any of my posts indicate otherwise, then produce your cause or cease from this provocation immediately. If you continue to falsely accuse me, I will report you to the moderators, which have already warned you at least once that I know of about your un-Christlike behavior. Are we clear?

Vehemence against Roman Catholicism or Protestantism is equally wrong. Let's try to make points WITHOUT all the ad hominems.

Yes, in exposing the errors of Catholicism and Apostate Protestantism, we need only the Sword of the Spirit, not the weapons of Satan's arsenal.

 

[JimParker]

Sir, I have already told you that I hate the errors of Catholic doctrine (as well as errors found in Protestant doctrine), but I love Catholic people and if any of my posts indicate otherwise, then produce your cause or cease from this provocation immediately. If you continue to falsely accuse me, I will report you to the moderators, which have already warned you at least once that I know of about your un-Christlike behavior. Are we clear?

I suggest you dedicate your time to hating YOUR SIN rather than the sins of others, real or imagined. God is going to judge you exactly as you judge others. If you want mercy, then act mercifully. (Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.)

<<If you continue to falsely accuse me, I will report you to the moderators,>>

If you continue to falsely accuse the Pope and the entire RCC in your Catholic-bashing rants, I will report YOU to the moderators. (ha-RUMPF!)

Or, you can quit kvetching about what other people might or might not be doing and attend to your own errors and omissions.

That would be a mature thing to do instead of wasting your time Catholic-bashing.

<<your un-Christlike behavior.>>

Catholic-bashing is un-Christlike behavior.

<< Are we clear?>>

Is that supposed to intimidate me? Is THAT supposed to be Christlike behavior?

Personally, I am fed up with people abusing the RCC about teachings that the abusers don't get straight or which are flat out lies that they choose to believe. Don't you have anything better to do than to spew abuse on people you don't know?

No one needs to hear your personal, indictments of what you imagine to be the sins of the Catholics. They are God's servants, not yours. He will judge them, not you.

Tend to your own soul. No one appointed you chief inquisitor. (though your posts suggest that you might think you hold that office.)

If you want to DISCUSS SPECIFIC Catholic doctrines (or Protestant) then do so. But you don't start a discussion by casting dispersions as you have done by calling the pope the anti-Christ.

 

[brakelite]

As far as the reformers are concerned that the basis for their collective charges against the papacy was not founded on personal prejudice nor was it influenced by current cultural considerations, but were founded firmly on the word of God, the Bible. Thus it is the inspired word of God that makes its case against the Roman church. It is God Himself that warns the readers of His word against Roman Catholicism; it is God Himself that calls His people out of that system (yes, He does have people in the RCC, and He does love them every bit as much as He loves anyone else); and it is God Himself who offers an alternative. It is not just a matter of calling people out of one church, but it also involves calling them into another.

Every reformer, from the 12th to the 18th century, from Wycliffe to Luther, from Calvin to Cranmer, and dozens in between, pointed their collective fingers at Rome and proclaimed the Roman papacy as the Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Were they right? If one was to give any credence to modern Christianity's view, the reformation was a major mistake, and the reformers all religious radicals deceived and influenced by the times in which they lived. If however they were right, and the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the Antichrist as they claimed, then why do so few proclaim it today? If however they were wrong which it seems the majority of Christendom now contend, then why don’t we all forsake the title “protestant” (who’s protesting today anyway?) and return to Rome, who claims still to be the "Mother Church"?

 

[StanJ]

As far as the reformers are concerned that the basis for their collective charges against the papacy was not founded on personal prejudice nor was it influenced by current cultural considerations, but were founded firmly on the word of God, the Bible. Thus it is the inspired word of God that makes its case against the Roman church. It is God Himself that warns the readers of His word against Roman Catholicism; it is God Himself that calls His people out of that system (yes, He does have people in the RCC, and He does love them every bit as much as He loves anyone else); and it is God Himself who offers an alternative. It is not just a matter of calling people out of one church, but it also involves calling them into another.

Every reformer, from the 12th to the 18th century, from Wycliffe to Luther, from Calvin to Cranmer, and dozens in between, pointed their collective fingers at Rome and proclaimed the Roman papacy as the Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Were they right? If one was to give any credence to modern Christianity's view, the reformation was a major mistake, and the reformers all religious radicals deceived and influenced by the times in which they lived. If however they were right, and the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the Antichrist as they claimed, then why do so few proclaim it today? If however they were wrong which it seems the majority of Christendom now contend, then why don’t we all forsake the title “protestant” (who’s protesting today anyway?) and return to Rome, who claims still to be the "Mother Church"?

OFF Topic brakelite and not even corroborated. An 'institution' cannot be the anti-Christ or even an anti-Christ. That it supports false teachings is true, but I doubt any denomination doesn't in one fashion or another. Hence the reason Paul tells us all to study the Word and why John tells us to test the spirits. It's up to us as well as leadership to not fall into false teachings.

 

[Phoneman777]

I suggest you dedicate your time to hating YOUR SIN rather than the sins of others, real or imagined. God is going to judge you exactly as you judge others. If you want mercy, then act mercifully. (Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.)

<<If you continue to falsely accuse me, I will report you to the moderators,>>

If you continue to falsely accuse the Pope and the entire RCC in your Catholic-bashing rants, I will report YOU to the moderators. (ha-RUMPF!)

Or, you can quit kvetching about what other people might or might not be doing and attend to your own errors and omissions.

That would be a mature thing to do instead of wasting your time Catholic-bashing.

<<your un-Christlike behavior.>>

Catholic-bashing is un-Christlike behavior.

<< Are we clear?>>

Is that supposed to intimidate me? Is THAT supposed to be Christlike behavior?

Personally, I am fed up with people abusing the RCC about teachings that the abusers don't get straight or which are flat out lies that they choose to believe. Don't you have anything better to do than to spew abuse on people you don't know?

No one needs to hear your personal, indictments of what you imagine to be the sins of the Catholics. They are God's servants, not yours. He will judge them, not you.

Tend to your own soul. No one appointed you chief inquisitor. (though your posts suggest that you might think you hold that office.)

If you want to DISCUSS SPECIFIC Catholic doctrines (or Protestant) then do so. But you don't start a discussion by casting dispersions as you have done by calling the pope the anti-Christ.

You have been warned.

 

[JimParker]

You have been warned.

Warned about what?????

 

[HammerStone]

Guys, we have to be a little bit honest here. A member is free to hold the position of Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other Reformers on a Protestant forum. This would not fall in the realm of an insult since it's directed at an institution as much as anything. I could break out the Catholic catechism to demonstrate similar feelings towards Protestants, but we are in a time where we have a little more ecumenism than that.