Understanding The HolySpirit

[Malsi Si Live]

First thanks you for your reply.

second you said, "SONS OF GOD also indicates humans, but keeping it in the context of Job 38 I say it means angels".

first off no angel is never called a "son" of God in which is a title. supportive scripture,
Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

is not Genesis 6:2, 6:4, a time, then they are not angels, nor in Job 38. here in Job God is using a metaphor

lets get the correct usage of Job 38.
Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I'm going to give you the answer first and then prove it in scriptures. the Morning Stars are the actual stars in the heavens, and the sons of God here in Job 38 are the sun and the moon....

let's prove it out. if you will go with me first to the book of James an establish the foundation.

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

here God is called the "FATHER" of LIGHTS. you can go to the blue letter bible online and look up Father which is the Greek work, G3962 πατήρ pater (pa-teer') or you can use the Thayer's Greek Definitions and examine definition #3, which states,
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

say what! the "STARS" yes, the actual stares in the heavens, but what about the heavenly luminaries?, while you're online just go to Dictionary.com and type in "luminary", and this ia what you get, 1. a celestial body, as the sun or moon. UH O, ..... yes, the actual sun and moon, the heavenly luminaries. now ypu know that God in Job was using a metaphor, for I know you're going to say well the morning stars "sang", and the sons of God "shouted" for joy.

well lets see, Psalms 148:1 "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Verse 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created”.

Now what do the word praise mean here? It is the Hebrew word, H1984 הָלַל halal (haw-lal') v. which can be translated as “sing”, or “shine”. See the stars, the sun and the moon sang or praised God by shining their lights at the creation. I know "they shouted for joy", a metaphor, lets have it. Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing”. The pastures, and valleys also praising God? Yes, how? by shouting for joy and singing. It’s all a metaphor. Do we now understand.

Job 38 are full of Metaphors, that's all. no the sons of God is not Lucifer = "light-bearer", which he just bear the Light and is NOT the Light. nor was it any angels at creation either. so the sons of God here in Job 38 are the "ACTUAL" stars in the heavens, and the "sun and the moon".

be blessed.

You're really complicating this. Sons of God are sometimes humans and sometimes angels. In Job 1:6 they are angels, and in Genesis 6 they are also (fallen) angels.
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

 

[101G]

You're really complicating this. Sons of God are sometimes humans and sometimes angels. In Job 1:6 they are angels, and in Genesis 6 they are also (fallen) angels.
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

No conplication, it's you that are not understand what a metaphor is in Job 38.

and as a matter of fact, the sons of God in Genesis 6 are humans. let's get the correct answer.
Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown".

Mighty Men is translated right in the verse, H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj.
גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
1. powerful.
2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.
[intensive from the same as H1397]
KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

the KJV can translaty this word "Mighty Man" as Champion, (see above) and who is one of the bibles well know Champion who was a giant?, let the bible speak.

1 Samuel 17:4 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span".

and six cubit an a span Goliath was only 9 feet and 9 inches tall.

Genesis 6 said these Nephilim/Giants H5307 נָפַל naphal "BECAME" known as "Mighty Men", H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj.
גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
1. powerful.
2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.

the verses said and "after" the flood. these men was from the result of human being mating, and not angels.

 

[Malsi Si Live]

You are really complicating this and over doing it.

I don't often post links other than resources like Strong's, Vine's, and the interlinear. The link I provided is mostly correct. He said,

"The phrase "sons of God" is found five times in the Old Testament (Genesis 6:2, 6:4, Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7) and five times in the New Testament (Romans 8:14, 19, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1 - 2). It has three primary meanings in the Bible, only one of which is made in reference to angels. The other two uses of the "sons of God" references humans."
___________________________________________________________

I say two references. He states, (and I disagree with) "This phrase in Genesis 6:1 - 2 cannot be a reference to angels, either to those who are righteous or evil. The word of God does not contain even a hint that flesh and blood humans can somehow mate with spirit-composed beings! Although there are some parallels in pagan thought regarding this possibility, this concept is simply not taught in Scripture."

He doesn't know that fallen angels have, can, and even today, can manufacture humans. That's why alien crafts that have crashed are always covered up. Demons are the disembodied spirits of fallen angels who were once aliens, but have since died. Human body parts have been found in several of their crashed 'crafts.'

I know it sounds crazy but aliens are the biggest coverup even more so than the Kennedy murders.

Aliens are an entire topic of their own. Most Christians have no clue!

 

[101G]

You are really complicating this and over doing it.

I don't often post links other than resources like Strong's, Vine's, and the interlinear. The link I provided is mostly correct. He said,

"The phrase "sons of God" is found five times in the Old Testament (Genesis 6:2, 6:4, Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7) and five times in the New Testament (Romans 8:14, 19, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1 - 2). It has three primary meanings in the Bible, only one of which is made in reference to angels. The other two uses of the "sons of God" references humans."
___________________________________________________________

I say two references. He states, (and I disagree with) "This phrase in Genesis 6:1 - 2 cannot be a reference to angels, either to those who are righteous or evil. The word of God does not contain even a hint that flesh and blood humans can somehow mate with spirit-composed beings! Although there are some parallels in pagan thought regarding this possibility, this concept is simply not taught in Scripture."

He doesn't know that fallen angels have, can, and even today, can manufacture humans. That's why alien crafts that have crashed are always covered up. Demons are the disembodied spirits of fallen angels who were once aliens, but have since died. Human body parts have been found in several of their crashed 'crafts.'

I know it sounds crazy but aliens are the biggest coverup even more so than the Kennedy murders.

Aliens are an entire topic of their own. Most Christians have no clue!

nothing complicated here. the scriptures are true, no angels are sons of God, fallen or not.

aliens nor the JFK cover up can change scripture.

Good day.

 

[Malsi Si Live]

nothing complicated here. the scriptures are true, no angels are sons of God, fallen or not.

aliens nor the JFK cover up can change scripture.

Good day.

Scripture is plain, it's up to us to determine their truth. I don't accept your truth, you don't accept mine. Angels are the sons of God in at least one passage. That's actually a no brainer. The fallen angels, also called the sons of God, who copulated with women in Genesis, are now in Tartarus. That's a no brainer too.

 

[101G]

Scripture is plain, it's up to us to determine their truth.

ERROR, Good hermeneutics allow the reader to "DISCOVER" the truth, and not determine it for themselves.

that's why so much confusion is in the body of Christ today, self determine truth.

the apostle Peter by the Holy Ghost wrote,
2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

 

[Malsi Si Live]

ERROR, Good hermeneutics allow the reader to "DISCOVER" the truth, and not determine it for themselves.

that's why so much confusion is in the body of Christ today, self determine truth.

the apostle Peter by the Holy Ghost wrote,
2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

I guess we are going to have to let the 'reader' determine whether angels are implied in Job 1:6 or not!

Angels...
Job 38:7 KJV - 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Angels...
In Job 1:6 The "scene" changes from earth to heaven and we see God's angels gathering for a meeting with Jehovah, and Satan is also there to make a report. We know that at least one of his jobs is to accuse those who love the Lord!

Job 1:6 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:8-10 (NKJV) Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that [there] [is] none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?" 9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 "Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

 

[101G]

I guess we are going to have to let the 'reader' determine whether angels are implied in Job 1:6 or not!

Why, when the bible clearly tells us no angel is a son of God, Hebrews 1:5

Job 38:7 KJV - 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Angels...
In Job 1:6 The "scene" changes from earth to heaven and we see God's angels gathering for a meeting with Jehovah, and Satan is also there to make a report. We know that at least one of his jobs is to accuse those who love the Lord!

Job 1:6 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

ERROR, the bible never said that these verse you gave are angels.

the only sons of God in Job are humans which Job 1:3 clearly points out. and this tells us who the sons of God are in Job 1:6, and Job 2:1

so the bible NEVER calls angels "Sons".

so I leave you with Revelation 22:11 on this subject also.

Good Day.

 

[Malsi Si Live]

Why, when the bible clearly tells us no angel is a son of God, Hebrews 1:5


ERROR, the bible never said that these verse you gave are angels.

the only sons of God in Job are humans which Job 1:3 clearly points out. and this tells us who the sons of God are in Job 1:6, and Job 2:1

so the bible NEVER calls angels "Sons".

so I leave you with Revelation 22:11 on this subject also.

Good Day.

You are My Son: God the Father calls Jesus, “Son” who by inheritance is the "more excellent name" of Hebrews 1:4. This shows that Jesus obtained his sonship as THE Son of God and that he is greater than the angels because he no SINGLE angel was ever given this great title. The angels are collectively called “sons of God” (such as in Job 1:6), but no angel is ever given that title individually.

The difference is also that Christ is the FIRSTBEGOTTEN son of God....

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[CoreIssue]

I guess we are going to have to let the 'reader' determine whether angels are implied in Job 1:6 or not!

Angels...
Job 38:7 KJV - 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

How about Venus stars still visible at the break of dawn?

Angels...

In Job 1:6 The "scene" changes from earth to heaven and we see God's angels gathering for a meeting with Jehovah, and Satan is also there to make a report. We know that at least one of his jobs is to accuse those who love the Lord!

Job 1:6 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

I guess we are going to have to let the 'reader' determine whether angels are implied in Job 1:6 or not!

Angels...
Job 38:7 KJV - 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angelsa]">[a] shouted for joy?

 

[CoreIssue]

You are My Son: God the Father calls Jesus, “Son” – the more excellent name of Hebrews 1:4. This shows that Jesus is greater than the angels because no SINGLE angel was ever given this great title. The angels are collectively called “sons of God” (such as in Job 1:6), but no angel is ever given that title individually.

The difference is also that Christ is the FIRSTBEGOTTEN son of God....

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Your problem is using the KJV or the translation based on the KJV. Or a paraphrase based on the KJV.

It is loaded with errors and bad translations

 

[Taken]

John 15:26

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The HolySpirit is the comforter, Jesus, explaining to the disciples that when He left He would not leave them without a comforter.
He will be the Spirit of truth and He shall testify of me, John 16:13

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I understand when the HolySpirit was poured out in the book of Acts it was quite amazing.
Just reading it thrills the believer beyond belief.
Through the years He has been made out to be something He is not.
The main ministry of the HolySpirit is that of a teacher.
For most, that simple ministry of the HolySpirit takes the wind out of their sails. They need more fire and cloven tongues to prove how God can use them.
Like they have a special calling, to their shagrin God is no respector of persons.
Simply put He does not get as exsited as much as we do when a celebrity or politician or king gets saved, it is all the same to Him. He does put much emphasis on a person's past, He is more interested in who and what you are today.
I know when I was involved in several different denominations, some had HolySpirit schools and meetings where they gave their ideas about the HolySpirit.
You say what is wrong with that, first it is not what Jesus said he would do when he came.
The HolySpirit needs to be taught but it must be in the context it was given.
My first sunday school class lesson after I got saved was on the HolySpirit. I didn't know a father from a son to a spirit, new to me but I was hungry. Our teacher was the associate pastor and very good teacher when I look back. I learned things that have stayed with me for all these years that have been invaluable. He gave us a paper for going through the class that I framed.
Has my understanding been perfect through the years, no, is it perfect now, no.
The point I'm trying to make is without your understanding the HolySpirit as your teacher you will never see Christ as your life.
We have the resurrected life of Jesus himself that dwells in every born again believer.
The HolySpirit is in the soul-mind where your understanding is, where you learn. We must yield our minds to him to see what he has to say.
Don't worry about power, don't worry about taking in tongues, yield your mind, the main member of your body to see who you are as a born again believer.

The Holy Spirit, IS Gods Power, who is called Christ.

1 Cor 1[24]...Christ the power of God...

Baptism of a man WITH the Holy Spirit, IS Baptizing a man WITH the Power of God.

It is by and through such Baptism, a man Receives and HAS the Power of God:

To Preach the Kingdom, according to Gods Word.
To Heal the sick, according to Gods Word.
To Cast out Demons, according to Gods Word.

Happy New Year,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Malsi Si Live]

Your problem is using the KJV or the translation based on the KJV. Or a paraphrase based on the KJV.

It is loaded with errors and bad translations

Don't think I'm unaware of that, but it's the best bible to use to get to the original Greek and Hebrew words of the text. That's why I use the lexicon's an interlinear.

 

[101G]

You are My Son: God the Father calls Jesus, “Son” – the more excellent name of Hebrews 1:4. This shows that Jesus is greater than the angels because no SINGLE angel was ever given this great title. The angels are collectively called “sons of God” (such as in Job 1:6), but no angel is ever given that title individually.

The difference is also that Christ is the FIRSTBEGOTTEN son of God....

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

that TITLE repersent "character" or the "characteristics" of God, and two he was made a little "LOWER" that the angels, (Hebrews 2:7 and 2:9) so that excuse want fly.


1 John 3:1 "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not".

John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


lets end this clearly,
Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

do you see that part of the scripture, "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son"
LISTEN,

2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty".

NOW where has God said to any angel that he'll be their Father? scripture please.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The word Lucifer is only used once in Isaiah 14. He was an archangel. This is what the word means...

Lucifer = "light-bearer"
shining one, morning star, Lucifer of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
(TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon.

So confusing. How is Lucifer called ‘light-bearer” and morning star?

Revelation 2:26-29 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. [28] And I will give him the morning star. [29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 22:16
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[Taken]

ERROR, Good hermeneutics allow the reader to "DISCOVER" the truth, and not determine it for themselves.

Good hermeneutics...?

that's why so much confusion is in the body of Christ today, self determine truth.

the apostle Peter by the Holy Ghost wrote,
2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

You just told a poster, (Malsi Si Live) "private interpretation" is not what Scripture teaches...

Absolutely TRUE.

Then you promote "hermeneutics", which you preface as "good", as being An acceptable interpretation.

Hermeneutics, is STILL private interpretation, with a group of people all agreeing on the "private interpretation", based on theories and methodology of philosophies and sciences.

You should look into what you are teaching.
Calling a private interpretation by a new name does not change it is a private interpretation.

Glory to God,
Happy New Year,
Taken

 

[Malsi Si Live]

So confusing. How is Lucifer called ‘light-bearer” and morning star?

Revelation 2:26-29 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. [28] And I will give him the morning star. [29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 22:16
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Right here...

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

The word Heylel is also associated with Islam!

 

[101G]

You just told a poster, (Malsi Si Live) "private interpretation" is not what Scripture teaches...

Absolutely TRUE.

Discovering is not interpreting

one discover the truth, and not make it out what you want it to be.

Hermeneutics, is STILL private interpretation

ERROR Good Hermeneutics, it make no suggestion.

see eisegesis you come up with an interpertation, YOU read into it

Exegesis, allow one to "DISCOVER" the truth. big difference.

I understand Hermeneutics, a good teacher of mine gave me some good advace, GOOD Hermeneutics allow one to "DISCOVER the TRUTH.

 

[101G]

So confusing. How is Lucifer called ‘light-bearer” and morning star?

Revelation 2:26-29 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. [28] And I will give him the morning star. [29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 22:16
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

first thanks for the reply

Lucifer called ‘light-bearer” and morning star? not the morning star.
Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"


JESUS - "the bright and morning star"

Lucifer - "son of the morning" and not son of the Morning Star.

see the diffrence now?.
,

 

[CoreIssue]

Don't think I'm unaware of that, but it's the best bible to use to get to the original Greek and Hebrew words of the text. That's why I use the lexicon's an interlinear.

You need to study. The manuscripts they used didn't even exist until the 1500s. They are of Catholic origin.

The Bible's they referenced also were written long after the originals and based on Catholic.

Simply put, at that time they did not have anywhere near the manuscripts and linguistic understanding we have today.

So your argument is false.

I agree on using an interlinear. But they are not all equal and accuracy Or understandability.

I've looked at a lot settled on:
Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance

As far as Bibles go the NIV and NASB rank at the top for accuracy and readability. I preferred the NIV.

The most used Bible today is the NIV. Contrary to what's many want to claim, the King James version has fallen to number three and declining.

It makes no sense to me use the Bible with a lot of errors, such as Easter in Romans, which should be Passover.

Or in Genesis was shapeless and void should be became shapeless and void.

Are sons of God when it is actually angels.

Plus the archaic English trips up so many people. I've lost count of how many I've had to correct.

Plus a false belief that it is the divinely received text when it is not.