Understanding the Olivet Discourse

[Waiting on him]

I

Yes, that's the whole reason the temple came down. Israel fell from grace, and could not offer acceptable offerings to God. At any rate, God had planned all along to complete redemption under the Law with the eternal redemption of His Son.

Today, offerings acceptable to God are ones made in the name of Jesus, and not offered at a temple in Jerusalem. That temple is long gone!

Is Israel built on the ruins of jerhico?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Amos 5:18,22 KJV
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord ! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. [22] Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them : neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.

Admittedly still struggling with this as been told for so long to desire the day of the Lord. And looking forward to wrath coming on the world and even to anticipate it upon others. Yet, “woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! To what end is it for you?” “Woe unto you ...what end is it for you?” Makes me think of 1 Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

Isaiah 13:6-13 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. [7] Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: [8] And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. [10] For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. [11] And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. [12] I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. [13] Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

“woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! To what end is it for you?” With he who endures to the end.

James 5:1-7 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. [2] Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. (Matthew 6:19-20), (Luke 12:33) Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. [4] Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. [5] Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. [6] Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

2 Peter 3:9-13 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands...
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Isaiah 60:18-22 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. [19] The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. [20] Thy sun shall no more go down;
(Ephesians 4:26)neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. [21] Thy people also shall be all righteous: (new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.)they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. [22] A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

 

[Timtofly]

False, Jesus said the temple would be demolished--every stone--in his own generation. That literally took place in 70 AD. The Romans took down every stone. The remaining vestige of the temple through the continuing presence of a retaining wall is *not* the continuing presence of the temple itself.

If you read the instructions on building the temple, you will not see a retaining wall. The temple could, to some, mean only the building housing the holy of holies and the holy place. To others, like yourself, it must mean the entire superstructure, including support structures.

But obviously, if the temple came down, stone by stone, it did not mean the foundation under it had to come down too. Nor did a retaining wall that helped to stabilize the plaza upon which the temple was constructed have to be destroyed to fulfill Jesus' prediction.

You claim this is foolish, and yet Christian scholars all through history have interpreted the 70 AD destruction of the temple to be the fulfillment of this specific prophecy. Even many of those who believe the Abomination of Desolation has a future fulfillment in Antichrist believe that Luke 21 refers to the 70 AD event. You should do some research on the historical interpretation of Luke 21 before you call my view "foolish."

What you say in denying all the stones even the foundation wall, is wrong. It will take a flood of water to actually remove the whole of Jerusalem as Jesus knew it and we know it today. Show me in history where Titus or the Romans removed Jerusalem with a flood of water. History says the Temple burned down and the stones were moved in the killing of millions of Jews for over 5 months. Every time Jews tried to come against the Romans, they were just killed. When eventually no more Jews came, then the Roman armies hunted them down over the next few years killing any one who had left Jerusalem trying to escape. The fortress of Mesada in 74 being one of the last places the Jews were defending themselves in.

Yes it removed an empty worthless temple that the Jews attempted to keep going 40 years after Jesus' Atonement on the cross rendered it obsolete. God had left hundreds of years prior. The proof is the Pharisees and Sadducees no longer had singleness of mind and spiritual discernment. Sounds like red and blue US. God left 100's of years ago, when humans deemed God was no longer necessary. Separation of church and state does not mean that God does not work in government. God will guide any human who allows God to work, saved or lost. God just does not do human bidding for their own will and desires. God working in human government is separate from working in a human's own mind and heart.

 

[Timtofly]

The future fulfillment of the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel REQUIRES a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem with sacrifices. The Zechariah 12 chapter contains prophecy of Messiah coming to build the temple, and that is what today's orthodox Jews are waiting for. They say Messiah will build it when he comes.

Problem with that though is, that our Lord Jesus warned us of a false-Messiah that is to come first (Matthew 24:23-26). Apostle Paul warned about that too (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

God never wanted a temple of stone and wood. God demands a tabernacle. A stone and wood building represents permanance, which is easily destroyed.

A tabernacle is one of a sojourner in an alien land. During Adam's 6000 years of punishment, God and those humans who choose to accept God’s choice of who they are, are only passing through. They are not supposed to claim land and settle down.

Moses was supposed to take Israel out of Egypt and give them a permanent place on earth, that would last for 1400 years. But it was only a temporary permanent place. Only very few Hebrew people even let God work. The promise God gave was not used for God here on earth. His own chosen people drove God out, and only did what they wanted. Even when God said that sheep could rule the world, the sheep rejected God’s plan, and tried to do it it like every nation around them. Obviously it is does not work out well for those who reject God's plan and will.

 

[Timtofly]

Admittedly still struggling with this as been told for so long to desire the day of the Lord. And looking forward to wrath coming on the world and even to anticipate it upon others. Yet, “woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! To what end is it for you?” “Woe unto you ...what end is it for you?” Makes me think of 1 Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

Isaiah 13:6-13 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. [7] Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: [8] And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. [10] For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. [11] And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. [12] I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. [13] Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

“woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! To what end is it for you?” With he who endures to the end.

James 5:1-7 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. [2] Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. (Matthew 6:19-20), (Luke 12:33) Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. [4] Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. [5] Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. [6] Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

2 Peter 3:9-13 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands...
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Isaiah 60:18-22 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. [19] The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. [20] Thy sun shall no more go down;
(Ephesians 4:26)neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. [21] Thy people also shall be all righteous: (new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.)they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. [22] A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

Applying what God warned about 3000 years ago, and 2000 years ago has a dated shelf life. Eventually it does not have to apply any more. Every step is cautionary today. Covid19 taught us that. If we do not head that warning all posters here will rush into sin and rebellion thinking it is true and of God when it is only of Satan the great deciever of all mankind.

God says the end has stopped being "tomorrow". We have to live everyday as if each today is the last day.

Jesus on earth with the twelve, told them not to worry and take thought for tomorrow. It was a day by day experience. For 2000 years we have pushed the future into tomorrow and tried to anticipate and plan. No more, each day is it's own plan again.

 

[bbyrd009]

"today is the last day of the rest of your life!"

 

[Randy Kluth]

Many say refer to Daniel to understand revelation. I say refer to Jericho.
It's at the end of a progression of 7 trumpets the walls came down.

Wow! Nice point! I do think Daniel is important. But yes, I think we should go well outside of Daniel to consider the totality of Scriptures when viewing the book of Revelation.

For example, the plagues of Egypt seem related, as a precedent, to the 7 bowls of wrath. And as you say, the trumpets that brought Jericho down seem related to the 7 trumpets in the 7th seal of the scroll in the hand of the Lamb. Thanks for that!

 

[Randy Kluth]

What you say in denying all the stones even the foundation wall, is wrong. It will take a flood of water to actually remove the whole of Jerusalem as Jesus knew it and we know it today. Show me in history where Titus or the Romans removed Jerusalem with a flood of water. History says the Temple burned down and the stones were moved in the killing of millions of Jews for over 5 months. Every time Jews tried to come against the Romans, they were just killed. When eventually no more Jews came, then the Roman armies hunted them down over the next few years killing any one who had left Jerusalem trying to escape. The fortress of Mesada in 74 being one of the last places the Jews were defending themselves in.

Yes it removed an empty worthless temple that the Jews attempted to keep going 40 years after Jesus' Atonement on the cross rendered it obsolete. God had left hundreds of years prior. The proof is the Pharisees and Sadducees no longer had singleness of mind and spiritual discernment. Sounds like red and blue US. God left 100's of years ago, when humans deemed God was no longer necessary. Separation of church and state does not mean that God does not work in government. God will guide any human who allows God to work, saved or lost. God just does not do human bidding for their own will and desires. God working in human government is separate from working in a human's own mind and heart.

I would say that human beings need to align their heart and mind with God's heart and mind? If we do so then a couple things will happen. 1) We will receive a new nature from Christ. 2) We will learn to obey Christ and to thereby be blessed with God's presence and help.

Everything else you say I pretty much agree with, although we may have some difference on the temple destruction. But I agree--the temple may not have been destroyed in a single day. It probably took years to annihilate the whole structure. But it is not there today. And the retaining wall--the Wailing Wall--may be called a "vestige of the temple," but it was never part of the temple buildings themselves. It was just a retaining wall, or part of the original construction project.

At this point, I think we at least agree on some important matters. The US is out of alignment with God, though some may indeed be "on God's side." And God had definitely left the temple worship behind, well before the temple was actually destroyed. The Jews had Jesus murdered. And I think that is not just where God left Israel, but also where Israel left God.

 

[Timtofly]

I would say that human beings need to align their heart and mind with God's heart and mind? If we do so then a couple things will happen. 1) We will receive a new nature from Christ. 2) We will learn to obey Christ and to thereby be blessed with God's presence and help.

Everything else you say I pretty much agree with, although we may have some difference on the temple destruction. But I agree--the temple may not have been destroyed in a single day. It probably took years to annihilate the whole structure. But it is not there today. And the retaining wall--the Wailing Wall--may be called a "vestige of the temple," but it was never part of the temple buildings themselves. It was just a retaining wall, or part of the original construction project.

At this point, I think we at least agree on some important matters. The US is out of alignment with God, though some may indeed be "on God's side." And God had definitely left the temple worship behind, well before the temple was actually destroyed. The Jews had Jesus murdered. And I think that is not just where God left Israel, but also where Israel left God.

Thanks.

Jericho did play a roll in God's plan. It was the end of the nations, and the beginning of Israel. The trumpets are for Israel. They are a symbol of the might of Israel. The trumpet is the connection between God and his dealings with Israel. Paul said that Israel and the Church would be saved from this earth at the sound of the last Trumpet. That is true. It just does not happen in the same second of time. That is why it has been hidden in plain sight in Revelation 6, until now.

God used the nations for His plan. Then Israel, then the body of Christ. The seals deal with the sealed body of Christ. The Trumpets deal with the end of the house of Jacob before the Second Coming. The Thunderings will be revealed and they will deal with the Nations. Because God’s plan, and the mystery of that plan will be revealed to all as God is finished dealing with each group in His own plan and way. Although it is clear in black and white in the pages of Revelation. Whether it is just reading comprehension or the Holy Spirit showing one the interpretation, the words have been there for over 1900 years.

 

[Davy]

That's interesting. Before I posted my question, I visited several mapping sites and I also have Google earth. From what I could see, what people call "the Western Wall" is actually the west-most retailing wall of the Temple Mount. It seems that Mt. Zion wasn't big enough to accommodate all the buildings Herod wanted to add to the site, so he increased the area of the site by adding retaining walls. This elevated a large area suitable for construction. The Western wall, isn't the west-most wall of the temple; the Western wall is the west-most wall of the elevated area we know as the "Temple Mount".

So my question was this, did Jesus prophesy about the Temple alone or the entire site?

The Western Wall, which still stands today, goes back to the 2nd century B.C. Christ's 1st coming was about 4 B.C. So that wall was part of the 2nd temple complex back before Christ.

And anyway, the Preterist notion that the not one stone atop another was fulfilled in 70 A.D. doesn't account for the Dome of the Rock stones that are standing on the temple mount today.

 

[Davy]

Do you think Jesus was talking about Daniel 11:31? Wasn't that passage fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes?

One must take in all the Daniel descriptions of the future coming Antichrist, Dan.8, Dan.9, Dan.11, and Dan.12. The false one to come per the Book of Daniel is called the "little horn" that comes up among the ten horns, and the "vile person" who comes to power as king using peace and flatteries. Antiochus IV didn't come to power using peace, he used war.

And Antiochus didn't make a "league" that established sacrifices in Jerusalem, instead they were already going on when he took Jerusalem with an army, and he stopped the sacrifice and instead placed an idol abomination to Zeus inside the 2nd temple after desolating it with swine sacrifice upon the altar. Thus Antiochus IV served only as a partial blueprint for SOME of the Daniel prophecy.

Daniel 11:21-31 gives detail about the Daniel 9:27 events for the final 70th week of the 70 weeks prophecy.

The covenant made in Daniel 9:27 for the symbolic "one week" (7 years) is the "league" the "vile person" makes with a small group of people in Jerusalem per Daniel 11:21-23.

Daniel 11:28 and Daniel 11:30 shows the 'vile person's heart will be against the holy covenant, pointing to what his making of that "league" was about, i.e., re-establishing the old covenant worship in Jerusalem, which includes sacrifices, something the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today are preparing to do. Antiochus didn't do that; he instead took Jerusalem by force and ended the sacrifices, the opposite of what this Daniel 11 prophecy shows.

Then in Daniel 11:31, the vile person will end the sacrifices and that covenant, and thus breaking the "league", and instead he will place an idol abomination in the temple for false worship. This future idol worship is described at the end of Revelation 13 about the "image of the beast".

 

[Davy]

This encyclopedia reference indicates something not related to what, biblically, the temple buildings were. It is referring, in context, to the temple *construction project,* which did, of course, include the foundation, or plaza, and the retaining walls. This is *not* to say that the retaining walls were part of the temple buildings themselves--they were support structures that remained as part of the original temple construction project. But they were not the temple itself, as indicated in God's instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

You can claim this article says this or that, but you will never be able to prove that Jesus was wrong when he said "every stone will be removed." It was. And the original temple construction, though inclusive of a retaining wall, still did not include the retaining wall in the temple buildings themselves. It only remained of the *temple construction project.* And that's what these encyclopedia articles are saying. Simply consult what the *Bible says* the actual temple buildings were, which of course you have to do to assert your views.

I've actually been there, and know what I'm talking about. You don't actually have to visit the site to see what I'm talking about. You can see it virtually on the web.

All I have to say is, the Dome of The Rock and Western Wall, which means huge stones are still one atop another at the temple mount in Jerusalem.

And furthermore, the question His Apostles asked Him right after He said not one stone atop another was about the end of this world and the sign of His 2nd coming. That places that not one stone atop another in that timeframe, and not back in 70 A.D.

And even also, because the Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse parallel the Seals in Revelation 6, which He gave to His Church through His servant John, we can also know those events in His Olivet discourse is for the END of this world, and not back in 70 A.D. Trying to base a whole doctrine on 70 A.D. using the stones idea from His Olivet discourse is ludicrous and stupid, and reveals an agenda of devils to toy with the Scripture.

 

[Davy]

God never wanted a temple of stone and wood. God demands a tabernacle. A stone and wood building represents permanance, which is easily destroyed.

A tabernacle is one of a sojourner in an alien land. During Adam's 6000 years of punishment, God and those humans who choose to accept God’s choice of who they are, are only passing through. They are not supposed to claim land and settle down.

Moses was supposed to take Israel out of Egypt and give them a permanent place on earth, that would last for 1400 years. But it was only a temporary permanent place. Only very few Hebrew people even let God work. The promise God gave was not used for God here on earth. His own chosen people drove God out, and only did what they wanted. Even when God said that sheep could rule the world, the sheep rejected God’s plan, and tried to do it it like every nation around them. Obviously it is does not work out well for those who reject God's plan and will.

Well, I guess your Bible has the last 9 chapters of the Book of Ezekiel torn out. That because that temple layout there has NEVER been built to this day!

 

[n2thelight]

Again AD 70 was a type

I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"Ensamples" in the manuscripts is the Greek word "tupos", number 5179 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "a sample, or type; i.e. a model for imitation, a fashion, for manner, or form." So Paul is telling us that those things that we read about in the Old Testament, of the events of the prophets of old are examples of what we should be looking for in our day. This is written to alert all people to be aware of how it shall be before Christ returns. What was written in the Exodus, or in Amos is written as examples for our admonition or warning. All of the Scriptures is given as a warning to those who are living in the times of the ends of this world age of the flesh. We will see the end of the flesh age come to a close, and there are many things that will come to pass right before our eyes that were written about in detail way back in the Old Testament time, and Paul is telling you and I to wake up to those warnings.

Each of the events that took place, the opening of the Red sea, the building of the false religious forms, and so on. God is telling us "look little children that is what is going to happen to you at the close of this earth age". We are living in that age, and these things are happening now. Can you learn by this? It is so simple. God did not leave us helpless nor hopeless in these end times, and that is why we must become skilled in all of His Word. It is all an example of what is going to befall us in our generation.

So no ,I'm not denying that event,what I'm saying is that event will pale in comparison to what will happen when His feet touch the mount of olives

 

[Timtofly]

Well, I guess your Bible has the last 9 chapters of the Book of Ezekiel torn out. That because that temple layout there has NEVER been built to this day!

I am not sure what your point is. Ezekiel's temple will not exist before the Second Coming either. That has nothing to do with the here and now. This is not the end of the world. There are still 1000 years to go, and every thing we see today, cities, lands, mountains, valleys, and even islands will not even be the same after the next 6 years.

Ezekiel's temple will be built after Christ does set up a more permanent home, because it is His time to live and rule over the earth along with the sons of God. During the current age of fallen humanity is the time of a Tabernacle.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Western Wall, which still stands today, goes back to the 2nd century B.C. Christ's 1st coming was about 4 B.C. So that wall was part of the 2nd temple complex back before Christ.

And anyway, the Preterist notion that the not one stone atop another was fulfilled in 70 A.D. doesn't account for the Dome of the Rock stones that are standing on the temple mount today.

The Al Aqsa Mosque is there too. None of this represents the Temple of Herod that Jesus said would be utterly obliterated, stone by stone. In fact the temple was obliterated by the Romans--every stone. It's a fact of history. The Western Wall is not an exception. The plaza itself is not an exception. Islamic constructions are not an exception. It took place, with the primary purpose of ending the Jewish religion under the Law of Moses. Jews may still follow the Law. But it is a fact of history that God no longer recognizes the Law of Moses as the basis of His covenant with Israel. Christ is now the exclusive path to God--the only covenant that remains in effect.

 

[Randy Kluth]

All I have to say is, the Dome of The Rock and Western Wall, which means huge stones are still one atop another at the temple mount in Jerusalem.

And furthermore, the question His Apostles asked Him right after He said not one stone atop another was about the end of this world and the sign of His 2nd coming. That places that not one stone atop another in that timeframe, and not back in 70 A.D.

And even also, because the Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse parallel the Seals in Revelation 6, which He gave to His Church through His servant John, we can also know those events in His Olivet discourse is for the END of this world, and not back in 70 A.D. Trying to base a whole doctrine on 70 A.D. using the stones idea from His Olivet discourse is ludicrous and stupid, and reveals an agenda of devils to toy with the Scripture.

What's absurd is your denial of what the actual words of Luke 21 say! You *never* addressed that, though I've quoted it several times. It confirms that what Jesus spoke of was indeed the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by an invading army, leading to an age-long Jewish Diaspora. But you have no answer for that, and so you call me "stupid?"

I'm not going to call you stupid, but I will say that you're being evasive if you can't explain to me what Luke 21 meant when it says this! As such, and if I'm right, then this Discourse is 1st and primarily about the destruction of the temple, and not about the 2nd Coming. The question about the 2nd Coming came from the Disciples who wanted to understand the destruction of the temple in context with the "Jewish Hope," or "the Messianic restoration of Israel."

 

[CadyandZoe]

Daniel 11:21-31 gives detail about the Daniel 9:27 events for the final 70th week of the 70 weeks prophecy.

Isn't there a difference between Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 9:27? Daniel 11:31 seems to be talking about the desecration of the temple, whereas Daniel 9:27 seems to be talking about the destruction of the temple. Is that the same thing or different?

 

[Davy]

I am not sure what your point is. Ezekiel's temple will not exist before the Second Coming either. That has nothing to do with the here and now. This is not the end of the world. There are still 1000 years to go, and every thing we see today, cities, lands, mountains, valleys, and even islands will not even be the same after the next 6 years.

Ezekiel's temple will be built after Christ does set up a more permanent home, because it is His time to live and rule over the earth along with the sons of God. During the current age of fallen humanity is the time of a Tabernacle.

Well, your point was that God needs a moving tabernacle, like the one in the wilderness I assume. That's the opposite idea of the Ezekiel temple which will... be built for Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

 

[Davy]

The Al Aqsa Mosque is there too. None of this represents the Temple of Herod that Jesus said would be utterly obliterated, stone by stone. In fact the temple was obliterated by the Romans--every stone. It's a fact of history. The Western Wall is not an exception. The plaza itself is not an exception. Islamic constructions are not an exception. It took place, with the primary purpose of ending the Jewish religion under the Law of Moses. Jews may still follow the Law. But it is a fact of history that God no longer recognizes the Law of Moses as the basis of His covenant with Israel. Christ is now the exclusive path to God--the only covenant that remains in effect.

The Romans didn't actually destroy it; the 2nd temple caught fire and Josephus showed the Jews inside ultimately decided to destroy it instead of letting the Romans get possession of it. No doubt they remembered how Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. desolated it with sacrificing swine on the altar and setting up an idol to Zeus in it.

The Western Wall stones are still... standing. Those have to be included in Jesus' prophecy, simply because the event He was pointing to is the 'sudden destruction' that's to happen there on the "day of the Lord". So Preterists can laser point argue against this all they want but it don't mean a thing, because there's more Bible prophecy tied with it.