Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
The holy place is the inner sanctum of the temple..
Any jew would know this.
also. ROme did not desecrate it with an Idol. they destroyed it..
Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The holy place is the inner sanctum of the temple..
Any jew would know this.
also. ROme did not desecrate it with an Idol. they destroyed it..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
You need to read Gods word. and study what the term "abomination of desolation" means.
Otherwise, you will continue to misunderstand it
Nehemiah 11:1
And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
Rome desolated it, as per Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
And?
THE WING OF THE TEMPLE. The HOLY PLACE IIN THE TEMPLE
what part of that do you fail to comprehend>
Sacrifice and burnt offerings is done in the HOLY PLACE. Not in the city.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
It’s not a temple. The Holy of Holies was in the temple. It is where sacrifice and burnt offering occured.
I comprehend everything..
Jerusalem was the holy city, and the city was a place. The Roman armies stood in the holy place, Jerusalem.
Do you comprehend?
Last edited:
Yes, it doesn't say the Temple, as the Christians understood what was the meaning and left once the Romans placed it in what was part of the Holy Place of Jerusalem..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
Because you can not commit an ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION of a city
You can destroy it. Which is what Rome did. But daniel was told that would happen after the messiah was cut off. The abomination of desolation would occur much later. and by a future prince.
But an abomination of desolation can stand in a city.
Which is what the Roman army did, in 70 AD, 40 years after Messiah was cut off.
Scripturally, historically, and grammatically, "the prince who shall come" was "Messiah the Prince".
Messiah was (and is) a Prince, who did come some 500 years after Daniel wrote.
The abomination of desolation referred to in Matthew 24:15-21 and Daniel 12:11-12 is at the time of the end.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Then it would not be an abomintion of desolation.
There were probably many Idols in that city, Rome ruled the city.. I am sure they all had idols,
Also, An abomination of desolation in a city will not cause sacrifices and burnt offering to cease.. But this one will
Nope
Titus DESTROYED the city and left it desolate. Just like God in Lev 26 promised he would do.
The abomination of desolation has yet to occur
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
lol
Ok mr catholic
I explained it above by looking at the defenitions.
Take it or leave it.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No I look at the definitions as found in every greek hebrew lexicon or dictionary.
Unlike you. I do not listen to men blindly. I study to show myself approved, making sure I get it right.
The fact that Christ warned of the abomination of the idol symbol and it happened, speaks to that fulfillment of a holy place which the mount of olives was, in literal as part of the holy city and as sacred, as the Biblical location from which worship was done before the Temple was even built. Both Jews and Christians alike viewed the Mount of Olives as a sacred place, and clearly the abomination of desolation” Jesus was talking on was understood as a sacrilege or desecration of what is holy, and the mount of olives meets that criteria, and the warning He gave was clear.
Matthew 24:1620
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
So Jesus is obviously talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, and when Christians in Jerusalem saw this happen on mount of olives when Vespasian came, they fled out of the city as Jesus instructed. So during the temporary respite, when Vespasian was called back to Rome, the Romans unexpectedly raised their siege of Jerusalem, all the Christians fled, and it is said that not one of them lost his life. Their place of retreat was Pella, a city in the foothills east of the Jordan River, about 17 miles south of the Lake of Galilee. The Jews stayed behind and then Titus came back after Vespasian went back to Rome to become Emperor, and history gives us the horror, as an estimated one million Jews perished during the siege of Jerusalem.
Here is from Britannica..'After service in Britain and Germany, Titus commanded a legion under his father, Vespasian, in Judaea (67). Following the emperor Nero’s death in June 68, Titus was energetic in promoting his father’s candidacy for the imperial crown. Licinius Mucianus, legate of Syria, whom he reconciled with Vespasian, considered that one of Vespasian’s greatest assets was to have so promising a son and heir. Immediately on being proclaimed emperor in 69, Vespasian gave Titus charge of the Jewish war, and a large-scale campaign in 70 culminated in the capture and destruction of Jerusalem in September. (The Arch of Titus [81], still standing at the entrance to the Roman Forum, commemorated his victory.)'
Matthew 24:16-20 is talking about the end times, fleeing to the mountains when the abomination of desolation is set up. A statue-image of the beast king in the standing position. Jesus's Second Coming is in Matthew 24:30.... to Jerusalem, the Mt of Olives... in Zechariah 14.
Jerusalem is not destroyed in the end times. A tenth of Jerusalem's buildings will fall in Revelation 11:13, by an earthquake, following the ascending of the two witnesses to heaven. But not the whole city destroyed.
No, Daniel had seen the first desolation that had come from the abomination they had been doing, and now was prophesizing the second which Christ picked up and pointed it out as the one in 70 AD which came to fulfillment. And someone else there at the time of Daniel was Jeremiah, who was a contemporary of Ezekiel, so they were all there together for the first desolation. The reasons that Jeremiah gives on why the city was going to be destroyed was like Ezekiel, it was because they had just given themselves over to apostasy, and we see what God says in Jeremiah 1:16..
Jeremiah 1:16
And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.
They had been burning incense to other gods and worshiping idols. And Jerimiah prophecized what was going to happen shortly to where Daniel and his friends were, we see Jeremiah 29:7..
Jeremiah 29:7
And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the Lord for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.
God was telling them they were going to be captive in a foreign land because of their unfaithfulness but, even while they were in Babylon, God would use them as a witness while in captivity. And we saw that Jeremiah was not alone in having to warn the people about the judgments of the abominations in the many ways they were doing, as we read of one strange one in Ezekiel..
Ezekiel 8:14
Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
Tammuz was the main Sumerian fertility God, similar to the Greek God Adonis, and the story was Tammuz married the Goddess Ishtar and when he died, Ishtar would try every time spring to resurrect Tammuz and they would weep for Tammuz to try to help Ishtar in resurrecting him. The whole thing was a pagan spring fertility ritual, and thats not the worse, as the great shock for Ezekiel when he sees the women are doing this in the house of the Lord, they're weeping for Tammuz in God's house. So this is what brings the desolation at the time of Daniel/Jerimiah/Ezekiel, so now Daniel is prophesizing the second desolation.
Jesus condemned them for their abominations on numerous occasions, we see it when He cleansed the temple of the abomination they had created inside it. On these times He expressed His anger at the desecration of His holy place..
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
We see a direct connection to the coming desolation in Luke 19...
Luke 19:32-46
33 And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
34 And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
35 And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
36 And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
The real controversy between Jesus and the Jews was over the abomination they had made of worship, and what they want to do. It tells us in the next verse..
Luke 19:47
And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
They wanted to kill him because He was a threat to their money making system they had, and to their false traditions they had created to set aside Gods Law. The religious leaders hated Him because He didn't look like the Messiah they wanted and didn't respect their traditions and most notably He didn't keep the Sabbath in the manner they had create and thought it should be kept, but actually was a detestable abomination. So it was the Sabbath issue which infuriated the Jewish leaders and led them to seek Jesus' death. We find it many places, but we see it directly when He healed the man with the withered hand
Mark 3:1-6
1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.
Jesus sought time and again to bring them to repentance and reformation, just as the prophets had done before at the time of Daniel. He revealed to them their error of their ways and pointed the way to true worship. Yet instead they hunkered down and like Pharoah in Egypt, hardened their hearts and forsook God's mercy, and brought on His judgement of desolation.
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
We see a direct connection to the coming desolation in Luke 19...
Luke 19:32-46
33 And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
34 And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
35 And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
36 And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
The real controversy between Jesus and the Jews was over the abomination they had made of worship, and what they want to do. It tells us in the next verse..
Luke 19:47
And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
They wanted to kill him because He was a threat to their money making system they had, and to their false traditions they had created to set aside Gods Law. The religious leaders hated Him because He didn't look like the Messiah they wanted and didn't respect their traditions and most notably He didn't keep the Sabbath in the manner they had create and thought it should be kept, but actually was a detestable abomination. So it was the Sabbath issue which infuriated the Jewish leaders and led them to seek Jesus' death. We find it many places, but we see it directly when He healed the man with the withered hand
Mark 3:1-6
1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.
Jesus sought time and again to bring them to repentance and reformation, just as the prophets had done before at the time of Daniel. He revealed to them their error of their ways and pointed the way to true worship. Yet instead they hunkered down and like Pharoah in Egypt, hardened their hearts and forsook God's mercy, and brought on His judgement of desolation.
Similar threads
