Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

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Hobie

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This is interesting in what the writer says changed the Sabbath, at least he gets right that the Christians knowing Jesus’s warning of Matthew 24:15-21 had left Jerusalem..."

The beginning of the end​

The greedy Roman procurator of Judea, Gessius Florus (64-66), appropriated almost 600 kilograms of gold from the sacred treasury of the Temple in Jerusalem. Florus’ sacrilege triggered a military revolt in the country. To his attempts to restore the Roman leadership through massacres, the nationalist forces reacted with even more violence, exterminating the Roman armies they were defeating. In the year 65, radical Jewish forces controlled Jerusalem.

Two years later, Vespasian, one of Emperor Nero’s trusted generals, was sent to restore peace to the region, the Roman way. Vespasian, together with his son Titus and a large army„60,000 to 80,000 soldiers during the final assault.”>[4] began the march towards Jerusalem. By the middle of the year 68, Palestine was brought under the control of the Roman forces.

The populations of the conquered cities were mostly exterminated, and the few Jews left alive were sold as slaves. Jerusalem was practically isolated from the rest of the country. The death of Emperor Nero in June 68 postponed the attack on Jerusalem. From the death of Nero until the end of the year 69, Galba, then Otho, Vitellius, and, finally, Vespasian, who entrusted the assault and conquest of Jerusalem to Titus, succeeded in leading the empire.

The tragedy, step by step​

The time offered by the Roman political context was not used wisely by the Jewish forces, who controlled Jerusalem with its four rings of fortifications: the lower city, the upper city, the Antonia fortress, and the Temple. Basically, from the year 65 until 70, the parties of the Zealots, the Sicarii, and the Moderates fought each other for the control of Jerusalem.

In this blind conflict, they killed a significant number of their soldiers and burned a large amount of grain, which could have provided them with food for several years under siege. The party of Moderates was destroyed. Simon and John, the leaders of the Zealots and the Sicarii, joined forces only when the battering rams of the Romans began to batter the gates of Jerusalem.

The Roman generals were aware of the differences between the Jews and the scarcity of their food reserves. In the spring of the year 70, they let the Jewish pilgrims enter the citadel for Passover, but they did not let them out again—so that the resources would be consumed more quickly. In a short time, hunger began to torment the inhabitants of the city, who ended up committing atrocities that upset the collective conscience.

„Accounts of the time say that due to the terrible famine, a woman roasted and ate her own son.”>[5]

The destruction of the Temple​

After the Antonia fortress was razed to the ground, the assault on the Temple was prepared. In August of the year 70, the Roman forces entered the Temple premises. While the Roman soldiers were preoccupied with extinguishing a fire in the outer courtyard, the Zealots came from the inner courtyard and attacked them. In the fight that followed, a Roman soldier threw fire into the Temple and thus the fire that destroyed the building broke out. According to Jewish tradition, on the same day, but hundreds of years before, in 586 BC, the Temple of Solomon was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar II.

Dio Cassius reports about the reactions of the Jews who saw their Temple on fire: “They wanted to die, some threw themselves into the swords of the Romans, others stabbed each other, others took their own lives, and others threw themselves into the flames. And it seemed to everyone that they are not defeated, but that this is how they know victory, salvation, and happiness, perishing next to the Sanctuary”.„Eric H. Cline, Jerusalem besieged, University of Michigan, 2004, p. 164.”>[6]

Flavius Josephus, an eyewitness, describes the tragedy: “Around the altar lay dead bodies, heaped one upon another; down the steps of the sanctuary flowed a stream of blood, and the bodies of those killed above went sliding to the bottom.”

In the following days, the Roman soldiers demolished all of Jerusalem’s fortifications, leaving only a part of the western wall and three towers as a reminder of the strength of the fortification they destroyed. Jewish survivors, identified as rebels, were executed alongside the elderly and invalids. Children and those able to work were sold as slaves.

Christianity in a new world​

Knowing Jesus’s warning (Matthew 24:15-21), Christians left Jerusalem in the period between the sieges and fled to the city of Pella, in Decapolis. After the events of the year 70, Jerusalem was never again a pole of influence in Christianity...

Christianity had been perceived in its first decades of existence as a religious current within Judaism. Henceforth, the pagan world recognised Christianity as an independent group. The Jews were displeased that their Christianised brothers left Jerusalem and did not fight alongside them. In the year 90, during the Jamnia Synod, a curse against Christians was introduced into the religious service of the synagogue, alongside the “18 blessings”, to exclude them from worshipping in the synagogue.

In the year 65, groups of Sicarii conquered and massacred the Romans from the garrison of Masada. The soldiers were mostly from Caesarea, where also a large Jewish community lived. The inhabitants of Caesarea responded by killing 20,000 Jews and expelling those left alive from the city. The situation spread to other cities as well. Following such incidents, Christians wanted to detach themselves from the Jews even more, because the anti-Jewish feeling was getting stronger in the empire.

As a direct consequence of this desire to distance themselves from the Jews, Christians, especially those in Rome, adopted a day of worship different from the seventh-day Sabbath inherited from the Jewish apostles...
 

Douggg

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No, Daniel had seen the first desolation that had come from the abomination they had been doing, and now was prophesizing the second which Christ picked up and pointed it out as the one in 70 AD which came to fulfillment.
That's in Luke 21:20-24. Not in Matthew 24:15-31.
 

Timtofly

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But they did not place an abomination of desolation in the temple. they destroyed it

Jesus said when you see it STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE
Posters here cherry pick their abomination of desolation time frame. The Roman army and ensign was already a standing abomination of the Temple complex before Jesus mentioned it as a future event.

The Jews had already complained around the time Jesus was accomplishing His earthly ministry. Jesus had a reason for referring back to Daniel’s prophecy, pointing toward Antiochus Epiphanes. Jesus was not pointing to the Romans as being that Abomination. They were not fleeing from the Romans at the time of Christ because of the Roman soldiers.

Yes the desolation of Jerusalem came as well as way more Roman military. But that was not the Abomination of Desolation Jesus was warning about.

The future Abomination of Desolation involves Satan sitting on the throne of Jesus. Jesus did not have a throne in the first century, and neither did Satan, at least not in Jerusalem.
 
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Hobie

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That's in Luke 21:20-24. Not in Matthew 24:15-31.
Lets see how they compare...
Luke 21:5-21.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Matthew 24:1-16.
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


And lets compare one more in Mark..
Mark 13:1-14
1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Its the same event, just from the perspective of each of the Bible writers as you can see. Some picked up on the 'spoken of by Daniel the prophet', but otherwise they are essentially the same and speak of the same event of Christ talking on not one stone left upon another, as they all remembered that part clearly, and the Abomination of Desolation.
 
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Hobie

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Posters here cherry pick their abomination of desolation time frame. The Roman army and ensign was already a standing abomination of the Temple complex before Jesus mentioned it as a future event.

The Jews had already complained around the time Jesus was accomplishing His earthly ministry. Jesus had a reason for referring back to Daniel’s prophecy, pointing toward Antiochus Epiphanes. Jesus was not pointing to the Romans as being that Abomination. They were not fleeing from the Romans at the time of Christ because of the Roman soldiers.

Yes the desolation of Jerusalem came as well as way more Roman military. But that was not the Abomination of Desolation Jesus was warning about.

The future Abomination of Desolation involves Satan sitting on the throne of Jesus. Jesus did not have a throne in the first century, and neither did Satan, at least not in Jerusalem.
That is in the answer to the second question as remember it was a two fold answer that Christ was giving, when shall these things (the not one stone being left upon another part), and when would be the end and Christs Second Coming, ' Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?'

Christ in answer to the second part of the question, gave clear warning of what would come at the end, that would if possible, deceive even the saints.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

So they had the things foretold in the destruction of the temple where there would not be one stone left upon another in 70 AD and the Christians recognized it from what Christ had prophesized. But to the second part of the twofold question of what happens at he end, most Christians will be prepared and be able to discern they are false prophets and coming in His name, but then we will have the ultimate deception that will deceive most and if it were possible even 'the very elect.', Satan as a 'angel of light' can show himself as such and the impersonation Christ takes place at the end, and even the most sincere Christian would be hard pressed to see through this deception.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The church is looking for the Second Coming of Christ as the realization of their hopes, as the final act the devils history of deception, Satan himself will attempt to impersonate Christ. Now at the end, the deceiver himself shows up as the 'angel of light' and make it appear that Christ has come in different parts of the earth. So Satan comes and will manifest himself as the ultimate false christ, as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description but only able to wander about on earth trying to deceive.

What will those who say they follow Christ do? Satan will go around working 'miracles' and the people will fall down and worship him as Jesus Christ, and will turn the people from the law of God and substitute his deception he has already begun spreading now. So many will be taken in and follow Satan, but he cannot counterfeit the manner of Christ's coming where every eye shall see Him and with great power glory and cloud of angels. If we study carefully the nature of the coming of Christ and the purpose of His coming, then no person, man or woman need be deceived. Yet, strange as it seems, none of the mainline Christian churches teach the Biblical coming of Christ today. Most churches, if they preach about the second coming at all, preach a coming of Christ that will bring peace to the nations, but the Bible teaches a destruction of nations. They preach conversion of sinners at the coming of Christ when the Bible teaches that Christ will come to destroy sin and sinners. And key is the hope Christians have held for centuries, which is Christ is coming to take us to heaven. not wander around on earth, which Satan can certainly do and will do and deceive Christians who have been told this lie..
 

Hobie

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But an abomination of desolation can stand in a city.

Which is what the Roman army did, in 70 AD, 40 years after Messiah was cut off.

Scripturally, historically, and grammatically, "the prince who shall come" was "Messiah the Prince".

Messiah was (and is) a Prince, who did come some 500 years after Daniel wrote.
490 to be exact... What are the seventy weeks of Daniel? | GotQuestions.org

But the Jews did not receive Jesus who was God Himself manifest in the flesh. The "Messiah the Prince" Daniel had prophesized had indeed come to His temple when Jesus taught and healed in the sacred courts. Scripture tells us...
Matthew 21:14
KJV And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
ESV And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them.
NIV The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them.
NASB And those who were blind and those who limped came to Him in the temple area, and He healed them.
CSB The blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them.
NLT The blind and the lame came to him in the Temple, and he healed them.

In the presence of Christ Himself in the temple, and in this only, did the second temple exceed the first temple in glory, and yet the Jews rejected Him. So when they rejected the Messiah they lost their place as God's light to the world, and the 'abomination' was the rejection of the people of true worship to God. After teaching in the temple after telling the disciples the prophecy, Jesus left it for the last time with a broken heart as He saw the ultimate result of their apostasy, which would lead to utter desolation. He had warned them even before on what was coming...

Luke 19:42-44
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Matthew 23:37-38
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Jesus placed the guilt upon the people by stating, "they knew not the time of their visitation" and "ye would not." As a result of not responding to God's call to turn from their abominations, their temple was to be desolated. And you see this prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies of Titus burned the temple to the ground. This second desolation of the temple perfectly paralleled its first destruction. On both occasions the abominations were done by the apostate people of God and the desolation was an act of judgment performed by a army which brought its own abomination coupled with a unbelievable desolation.
 

Eternally Grateful

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The fact that Christ warned of the abomination of the idol symbol and it happened, speaks to that fulfillment of a holy place which the mount of olives was, in literal as part of the holy city and as sacred, as the Biblical location from which worship was done before the Temple was even built. Both Jews and Christians alike viewed the Mount of Olives as a sacred place, and clearly the abomination of desolation” Jesus was talking on was understood as a sacrilege or desecration of what is holy, and the mount of olives meets that criteria, and the warning He gave was clear.
Matthew 24:1620
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

So Jesus is obviously talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, and when Christians in Jerusalem saw this happen on mount of olives when Vespasian came, they fled out of the city as Jesus instructed. So during the temporary respite, when Vespasian was called back to Rome, the Romans unexpectedly raised their siege of Jerusalem, all the Christians fled, and it is said that not one of them lost his life. Their place of retreat was Pella, a city in the foothills east of the Jordan River, about 17 miles south of the Lake of Galilee. The Jews stayed behind and then Titus came back after Vespasian went back to Rome to become Emperor, and history gives us the horror, as an estimated one million Jews perished during the siege of Jerusalem.

Here is from Britannica..'After service in Britain and Germany, Titus commanded a legion under his father, Vespasian, in Judaea (67). Following the emperor Nero’s death in June 68, Titus was energetic in promoting his father’s candidacy for the imperial crown. Licinius Mucianus, legate of Syria, whom he reconciled with Vespasian, considered that one of Vespasian’s greatest assets was to have so promising a son and heir. Immediately on being proclaimed emperor in 69, Vespasian gave Titus charge of the Jewish war, and a large-scale campaign in 70 culminated in the capture and destruction of Jerusalem in September. (The Arch of Titus [81], still standing at the entrance to the Roman Forum, commemorated his victory.)'
Once again.

The destruction of Jerusalem and temple is not an Abomination of desolation.

Dan 9: “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.


1. Christ is killed (cut off)
2. The PEOPLE of the prince (Rome) destroy the city and sanctuary
3. They city remains desolate until the end of war desolation are determined An unknown period of Time,. (this continues until this day)

This is where we are right now

Then something happens.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”


1, The future prince will confirm a covenant with many for 7 years (has not happened)
2. In the middle of that week (3.5 years) he shall put an end to sacrifice and burnt offering by placing the abomination of desolation in the holy place (see matt 24)
This will remain until the time is poured out on the desolate (the great tribulation)

At the end, Daniel 70 and many other prophecies will be fulfilled. Christ returns. Puts an en to Gentile rule. and sets up his kingdom.
 

Hobie

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And yet it happened just as Christ had prophesized and the prophets which spoke on it before Him. Take a look at what history and scripture shows...

The Romans as was their usual practice for siege warfare dug a trench around the city to keep anyone from escaping. Now how bad was it, well historian Josephus tells how Roman soldiers "went in numbers into the lanes of the city, with their swords drawn, they slew those whom they overtook, without mercy, and set fire to the houses wither the Jews were fled, and burnt every soul in them, and laid waste a great many of the rest; and when they were come to the houses to plunder them, they found in them entire families of dead men, and the upper rooms full of dead corpses, that is of such as died by the famine; they then stood in horror at this sight, and went out without touching anything. But although they had this commiseration for such as were destroyed in that manner, yet had they not the same for those that were still alive, but they ran every one through whom they met with, and obstructed the very lanes with their dead bodies, and made the whole city run down with blood, to such a degree indeed that the fire of many houses was quenched with these men's blood." (The Wars Of The Jews, 6:8:5).

But the Christians didn't die, why because they knew it was coming and headed Christs word. Listen to how exact Jesus laid out what was to happen. The Roman general Vespasian besieged Jerusalem during the Jewish rebellion, but emperor Nero committed suicide and plunged Rome into a year of civil war and he had to leave. But now what Josephus tells us, "And now Vespasian had fortified all the places round about Jerusalem, and erected citadels at Jericho and Adida, and placed garrisons in them both And now the war having gone through all the mountainous country, and all the plain country also, those that were at Jerusalem were deprived of the liberty of going out of the city; Now as Vespasian was returned to Caesarea, and was getting ready, with all his army to march directly to Jerusalem, he was informed that Nero was dead Wherefore Vespasian put off at first his expedition against Jerusalem, and stood waiting whither the empire would be transferred after the death of Nero the Roman empire being then in a fluctuating condition, and did not go on with the expedition against the Jews" (The Wars Of The Jews, 4:9:1, 2).

When the legions of Rome finally got to Jerusalem they camped at the Mount of Olives (The Wars Of The Jews, 5:2:3). Immediately after their arrival a trench was cast about Jerusalem. A nine mile long wall was constructed in three days that totally enclosed the city (The Wars Of The Jews, 5:12:2).

This gave clear warning to the Christians and they fled in time before Titus came back. Now Josephus had acted as a mediator for the Romans and, when negotiations failed, witnessed the siege and aftermath. He wrote:

Now as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done), [Titus] Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and Temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as they were of the greatest eminence; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison [in the Upper City], as were the towers [the three forts] also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall [surrounding Jerusalem], it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind.[10]
And truly, the very view itself was a melancholy thing; for those places which were adorned with trees and pleasant gardens, were now become desolate country every way, and its trees were all cut down. Nor could any foreigner that had formerly seen Judaea and the most beautiful suburbs of the city, and now saw it as a desert, but lament and mourn sadly at so great a change. For the war had laid all signs of beauty quite waste. Nor had anyone who had known the place before, had come on a sudden to it now, would he have known it again. But though he [a foreigner] were at the city itself, yet would he have inquired for it.

Josephus claims that over a million people were killed during the siege, and that 97,000 were captured and enslaved. Aome scholars find that hard to believe but certainly a great many died.

Jesus said, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Matt. 24:2).
Titus, the Roman general, did not want to destroy the temple. In a speech to the Jewish defenders of the city he said, "I appeal to my own army, and the Jews that are now with me, and even to you yourselves, that I do not force you to defile this sanctuary; and if you will but change the place whereon you will fight, no Roman shall either come near your sanctuary, or offer any affront to it; nay, I will endeavor to preserve you your holy house, whether you will or not." (The Wars Of The Jews, 6:2:4).

However, after the city was taken, he "gave order that they should now demolish the entire city and temple but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited." (The Wars Of The Jews, 7:1:1). The prophecy of Micah of the desolation applies, "Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed like a field, Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the temple like the bare hills of the forest" (Micah 3:12).
 

Douggg

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Its the same event, just from the perspective of each of the Bible writers as you can see.
You compared the wrong set of verses to each other.

Compare Luke 21:20-24 to Matthew 24:15-31.

Luke 21:20-24 is 70 AD. Matthew 24:15-31 is end times.
 
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Hobie

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You compared the wrong set of verses to each other.

Compare Luke 21:20-24 to Matthew 24:15-31.

Luke 21:20-24 is 70 AD. Matthew 24:15-31 is end times.
Need to read what scripture has, not try to shoehorn the text...
Lets see how they compare...
Luke 21:5-21.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Matthew 24:1-16.
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Its the same event...
 

Hobie

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Now comes the end time prophecies in response to the second of the two fold question..
Matthew 24:25-36
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Luke 21:25-33
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
 

Douggg

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Its the same event...
again, you compared the wrong set of verses to each other.

Compare Luke 21:20-24 to Matthew 24:15-31.

Luke 21:20-24 is 70 AD. Matthew 24:15-31 is end times.

Those are not the same event.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Luke 21:24 ends the 70 AD event by saying...

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Conversely, Matthew 24:14 introduces the end times Matthew 24:15-31 set of verses.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.

The abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11-12 is time of the end. Daniel 12:9.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

All of Daniel 12 is time of the end, as is Matthew 24:15-31.

If you are going to compare Olivet Discourse verses, use this table. For near term, long term, and end times.




Olivet Discourse11.jpg
 
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Hobie

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again, you compared the wrong set of verses to each other.

Compare Luke 21:20-24 to Matthew 24:15-31.

Luke 21:20-24 is 70 AD. Matthew 24:15-31 is end times.

Those are not the same event.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Luke 21:24 ends the 70 AD event by saying...

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Conversely, Matthew 24:14 introduces the end times Matthew 24:15-31 set of verses.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.
As you can see the writers memory of what Jesus said varies slightly but you can see it was the same thing by matching the verses..

Matthew 24:15-20
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Mark 13:21-24
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21:20-24
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
 

Eternally Grateful

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The fact that Christ warned of the abomination of the idol symbol and it happened, speaks to that fulfillment of a holy place which the mount of olives was, in literal as part of the holy city and as sacred, as the Biblical location from which worship was done before the Temple was even built. Both Jews and Christians alike viewed the Mount of Olives as a sacred place, and clearly the abomination of desolation” Jesus was talking on was understood as a sacrilege or desecration of what is holy, and the mount of olives meets that criteria, and the warning He gave was clear.
Matthew 24:1620
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

So Jesus is obviously talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, and when Christians in Jerusalem saw this happen on mount of olives when Vespasian came, they fled out of the city as Jesus instructed. So during the temporary respite, when Vespasian was called back to Rome, the Romans unexpectedly raised their siege of Jerusalem, all the Christians fled, and it is said that not one of them lost his life. Their place of retreat was Pella, a city in the foothills east of the Jordan River, about 17 miles south of the Lake of Galilee. The Jews stayed behind and then Titus came back after Vespasian went back to Rome to become Emperor, and history gives us the horror, as an estimated one million Jews perished during the siege of Jerusalem.

Here is from Britannica..'After service in Britain and Germany, Titus commanded a legion under his father, Vespasian, in Judaea (67). Following the emperor Nero’s death in June 68, Titus was energetic in promoting his father’s candidacy for the imperial crown. Licinius Mucianus, legate of Syria, whom he reconciled with Vespasian, considered that one of Vespasian’s greatest assets was to have so promising a son and heir. Immediately on being proclaimed emperor in 69, Vespasian gave Titus charge of the Jewish war, and a large-scale campaign in 70 culminated in the capture and destruction of Jerusalem in September. (The Arch of Titus [81], still standing at the entrance to the Roman Forum, commemorated his victory.)'
Once again.

The destruction of Jerusalem and temple is not an Abomination of desolation.

Dan 9: “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.


1. Christ is killed (cut off)
2. The PEOPLE of the prince (Rome) destroy the city and sanctuary
3. They city remains desolate until the end of war desolation are determined An unknown period of Time,. (this continues until this day)

This is where we are right now

Then something happens.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”


1, The future prince will confirm a covenant with many for 7 years (has not happened)
2. In the middle of that week (3.5 years) he shall put an end to sacrifice and burnt offering by placing the abomination of desolation in the holy place (see matt 24)
This will remain until the time is poured out on the desolate (the great tribulation)

At the end, Daniel 70 and many other prophecies will be fulfilled. Christ returns. Puts an en to Gentile rule. and sets up his kingdom.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Need to read what scripture has, not try to shoehorn the text...
Lets see how they compare...
Luke 21:5-21.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Notice, In this passage, Jesus said know IT"S Desolation is near. this happened in 70 AD.
Matthew 24:1-16.
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Its the same event...
This one does nto speak of the desolation of Jerusalem, But the desolation of the temple by an idol standing in the holy place.

This has not yet happened.
 

Douggg

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As you can see the writers memory of what Jesus said varies slightly but you can see it was the same thing by matching the verses..

Matthew 24:15-20
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Mark 13:21-24
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21:20-24
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The same directive to avoid death and persecution was for the 70AD event and what is for the end times event - "flee to the mountains !"

70 AD - when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.

differently....

end times - when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.


AoD image the Jews flee.jpg
 
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Hobie

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Once again.

The destruction of Jerusalem and temple is not an Abomination of desolation.

Dan 9: “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.


1. Christ is killed (cut off)
2. The PEOPLE of the prince (Rome) destroy the city and sanctuary
3. They city remains desolate until the end of war desolation are determined An unknown period of Time,. (this continues until this day)

This is where we are right now

Then something happens.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”


1, The future prince will confirm a covenant with many for 7 years (has not happened)
2. In the middle of that week (3.5 years) he shall put an end to sacrifice and burnt offering by placing the abomination of desolation in the holy place (see matt 24)
This will remain until the time is poured out on the desolate (the great tribulation)

At the end, Daniel 70 and many other prophecies will be fulfilled. Christ returns. Puts an en to Gentile rule. and sets up his kingdom.
The Prophecy of Seventy Weeks in Daniel chapter 9, is the 490 years of uninterrupted period starting from "the time the word goes out to rebuild and restore Jerusalem," of Daniel 9:25 and ending 3½ years after Jesus' death. The starting point identified with a decree by Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BC to provide money to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple.

Now there where two earlier decrees by Cyrus and Darius’. So why don't these two decrees qualify to start the prophecy of Daniel 9:25? Well lets take a look at these two decrees. The first is the decree of Cyrus, given in his first year (537/536 B.C.) which is recorded in Ezra 1:1-4. An undated decree of Darius (520/519 B.C.) which is found in Ezra 6:1-12 merely reconfirms the decree of Cyrus. however, the first two decrees are about the temple, and its reconstruction, whereas the statement in Daniel 9:25 is concerned with the decree that resulted in the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem.

The first two decrees can be omitted from consideration, because they deal only with the building of the temple, and not the rebuilding of the city and restoration, "that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." So we can see that the third decree of Artaxerxes is the one that started the prophecy of Daniel 9 and was implemented in September/October 457 B.C.

The appearance of "Messiah the Prince" at the end of the 69 weeks (483 years) is aligned with Jesus' baptism in 27 CE. The 'cutting off' of the "anointed one" is applied to the Jesus' execution 3½ years after the end of the 483 years, bringing "atonement for iniquity" and "everlasting righteousness". Jesus' death is said to 'confirm' the "covenant" between God and mankind by in 31 CE "in the midst of" the last seven years. The end of the 70th week is associated with 34 AD when the gospel was redirected from only the Jews to all peoples.
 

Hobie

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Here is a good explanation which is simple yet shows who bought in these false ideas and confused people and when...

'Up until about the time of John Darby circa 1850, Christians believed the 70 weeks of Daniel had been fully completed. There was no "gap" theory.

Introduction​

In looking for an answer, it often helps to review what others who came before the current time thought about the 70 weeks or 490 years of Daniel 9:24-27. This is not to say whether or not their calculations were accurate in terms of starting and ending dates, but rather it is only to answer whether they thought the 70 weeks had been completed. We will see in fact a variety of starting and ending dates in their answers; however, we will find that yes, they all thought the 70 weeks had been fulfilled in the 1st century. None were looking for some sort of temporally disconnected one week (7 years) or 3 ½ years that remained to be fulfilled. This is so up until the mid 1800’s.

The focus of this post will not attempt to address the implications for the modern believer who might be looking for some future fulfillment yet to come, but rather, simply to answer the question whether the 70 weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled or not.

Historical Review​

We will consider a number of early Christians who delved into Daniel.

Julius Africanus wrote about 220 CE and influenced Eusebius and other historians. He believed that all 70 weeks had been fulfilled in Christ’s time.

  1. It is by calculating from Artaxerxes, therefore, up to the time of Christ that the seventy weeks are made up, according to the numeration of the Jews [literal versus prophetic year]. Julius Africanus, XVI, From Fragments of the Chronography as quoted by Schaff Philip Schaff: ANF06. Fathers of the Third Century: Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius, and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arnobius - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Athanasius of Alexandria was opposed Arianism and promoted consubstantiation between God the Father, Son, and Spirit. He wrote around 350 CE. He argued that the full 70 weeks was fulfilled to answer accusations that Messiah was yet to come; some were still looking for Christ.

Perhaps with regard to the other (prophecies) they [those still expecting a future fulfillment of the 70 weeks] may be able even to find excuses and to put off what is written to a future time. But what can they say to this, or can they face it at all? Where [Daniel 9:24] not only is the Christ referred to, but He that is to be anointed is declared to be not man simply, but Holy of Holies; and Jerusalem is to stand till His coming, and thenceforth, prophet and vision cease in Israel. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word, chapter 39 Philip Schaff: NPNF2-04. Athanasius: Select Works and Letters - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Tertullian wrote about 200 CE and is considered the father of Latin Christianity understood the 70 weeks as completely fulfilled by the coming of Christ and destruction of the Temple in 70 CE.

Accordingly the times must be inquired into of the predicted and future nativity of the Christ, and of His passion, and of the extermination of the city of Jerusalem, that is, its devastation. For Daniel says, that “both the holy city and the holy place are exterminated together with the coming Leader, and that the pinnacle is destroyed unto ruin.” Tertullian, An Answer to the Jews, chapter VIII Philip Schaff: ANF03. Latin Christianity: Its Founder, Tertullian - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
There are other early commentators such as Hippolytus, Origen, and others. Basically, regardless of their starting and even ending points, they all understood that the 70-week decree was fulfilled.

Origen circa 220 CE

The weeks of years, also, which the prophet Daniel had predicted, extending to the leadership of Christ, have been fulfilled. Philip Schaff: ANF04. Fathers of the Third Century: Tertullian, Part Fourth; Minucius Felix; Commodian; Origen, Parts First and Second - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Clement of Alexandria wrote circa 200 CE

From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation.”2071 That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judæa was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, “the Holy of Holies,” having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those “sixty and two weeks,” as the prophet said, and “in the one week,” was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said. Philip Schaff: ANF02. Fathers of the Second Century: Hermas, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, and Clement of Alexandria (Entire) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Future View​

The typical starting point for when the “gap” theory between the 69th and 70th week was introduced sources to John Darby, a founder of the Plymouth Brethren. He wrote in the 1830’s. Aside from the historic view, there were others near that time, but still before him, who disagreed with Darby; they were men like Matthew Henry (c1700), John Calvin (c1550), and Sir Isaac Newton (c1700), and bibles like the Geneva Bible. They maintained the “fulfilled historic” view, rather than the “future view”....
 

Timtofly

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That is in the answer to the second question as remember it was a two fold answer that Christ was giving, when shall these things (the not one stone being left upon another part), and when would be the end and Christs Second Coming, ' Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?'

Christ in answer to the second part of the question, gave clear warning of what would come at the end, that would if possible, deceive even the saints.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

So they had the things foretold in the destruction of the temple where there would not be one stone left upon another in 70 AD and the Christians recognized it from what Christ had prophesized. But to the second part of the twofold question of what happens at he end, most Christians will be prepared and be able to discern they are false prophets and coming in His name, but then we will have the ultimate deception that will deceive most and if it were possible even 'the very elect.', Satan as a 'angel of light' can show himself as such and the impersonation Christ takes place at the end, and even the most sincere Christian would be hard pressed to see through this deception.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The church is looking for the Second Coming of Christ as the realization of their hopes, as the final act the devils history of deception, Satan himself will attempt to impersonate Christ. Now at the end, the deceiver himself shows up as the 'angel of light' and make it appear that Christ has come in different parts of the earth. So Satan comes and will manifest himself as the ultimate false christ, as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description but only able to wander about on earth trying to deceive.

What will those who say they follow Christ do? Satan will go around working 'miracles' and the people will fall down and worship him as Jesus Christ, and will turn the people from the law of God and substitute his deception he has already begun spreading now. So many will be taken in and follow Satan, but he cannot counterfeit the manner of Christ's coming where every eye shall see Him and with great power glory and cloud of angels. If we study carefully the nature of the coming of Christ and the purpose of His coming, then no person, man or woman need be deceived. Yet, strange as it seems, none of the mainline Christian churches teach the Biblical coming of Christ today. Most churches, if they preach about the second coming at all, preach a coming of Christ that will bring peace to the nations, but the Bible teaches a destruction of nations. They preach conversion of sinners at the coming of Christ when the Bible teaches that Christ will come to destroy sin and sinners. And key is the hope Christians have held for centuries, which is Christ is coming to take us to heaven. not wander around on earth, which Satan can certainly do and will do and deceive Christians who have been told this lie..
Luke is warning that generation of Jerusalem's desolation.

Matthew is warning the Second Coming generation, that they need to flee the area when they see the Abomination of Desolation.

There was no AoD in the first century. There will be no Roman armies at the Second Coming to destroy Jerusalem.
 

Timtofly

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Need to read what scripture has, not try to shoehorn the text...
Lets see how they compare...
Luke 21:5-21.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Matthew 24:1-16.
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Its the same event...
No. Luke has Jesus talking in the Temple to all those in public. All those at the Temple were told about the invading armies.

Matthew is Jesus talking to His disciples in private about the Second Coming and the AoD. The end in Matthew 24:14 is after the Second Coming. The 7th Trumpet time frame.

All the Jews were to flee Jerusalem in 66 AD and never return, or they would be slaughtered. After the approaching armies in 66AD were routed, the Jews instead of fleeing, starting a war with Rome. They grew even more confident when Vespasian left. It was Titus and his army who killed all those who came back thinking Jerusalem was safe instead of heeding Jesus and fleeing when they had the chance.

God did not let Titus set up the AoD either. That was not the timing of that prophecy. 70AD was the desolation of Jerusalem for hundreds of years.

Jesus was not making the point to flee once and then return, and then flee again 3 years later. Many did flee in 66AD and never came back. No one fled again, because they were killed before an AoD could be set up.

When the future AoD is set up in Jerusalem, they will be able to flee again, not because of approaching armies. The AoD will be set up in a time of peace and deception. That is why they need to flee. So they will not be deceived.