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Absolutely.
Paul said... to the born again..>"use not your LIBERTY....for an occasion to the FLESH".
Paraphrase...>now that you are born again, and are made righteous.....dont pursue old carnal lusts anymore...."reckon all that dead" and instead renew your mind.
So, the "Liberty" regarding redemption, is that in Romans 4:8, it says that God does not charge you with your sin....or as Paul more clearly defines it as "works of the flesh".....>"occasion to the flesh".....(see above verse)
So when we have a right understanding of who we are "in Christ", then this is liberty, but you can't use it wrongfully., as you are instead to "present your body a living sacrifice" to God our Father.
How does Liberty LOOK as empowerment to live Holy, and not carnally, after you are born again?
Paul explains it as..>"Christ always gives me the Victory".......= over the flesh, the world, and the devil.
Thats the LIBERTY, that is found when you understand the : "simplicity that is Christ" = as your Real Faith.
Paul says.....Its not i who live...as i am crucified with Christ and the life i now live.....and paraphrasing the rest..>"its the liberty of Christ's power IN ME, setting me free from wrong desires", because CHRIST lives in me", and i am YIELDED.
This is Galatians 2:20
-later
Johann
Well-Known Member
No, I am afraid he is not...
2 Peter 2:10
uncleanness. Greek. miasmos. Only here. Compare 2Pe_2:20.
government = dominion. Greek. kuriotes. See Eph_1:21. Jud_1:8.
Presumptuous = Daring. Greek. tolmetes. Only here. self willed. Greek. authades. See Tit_1:7.
are not afraid = do not tremble.
speak evil of = blaspheme, as 2Pe_2:2.
dignities. Literally glories. Greek. doxa. Seep. 1511. Only here and Jud_1:8 used as a title.
You have a nice day
J.
Understanding... "your Liberty"
OP ^
Secularly:
Liberty; the right to take care of yourself unencumbered.
Spiritually:
Liberty; Prepared for an eternal life Void of Evil/wickedness.
OP ^
Secularly:
Liberty; the right to take care of yourself unencumbered.
Spiritually:
Liberty; Prepared for an eternal life Void of Evil/wickedness.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Is our flesh reborn?
Mind-renewed
So while we as believers are enclothed with flesh there will be a pulling to sin...
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
warring against. Greek. antistrateuomai. Only here.
bringing . . . into captivity = (seeking to) lead captive. Greek. aichmalotizo. Only here. Luk_21:24. 2Co_10:5. 2Ti_3:6. The kindred verb, aichmaloteuo, only in Eph_4:8.
law of sin: i.e. the old nature.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
wretched. Greek. talaiporos. Only here and Rev_3:17. Compare talaiporia, misery, Rom_3:16. Jas_5:1; and the verb talaiporeo, only in Jas_4:9.
deliver = rescue. See first Occurance Mat_6:13. Greek. rhuomai.
the body of this death. The body of sin. Compare Rom_7:13; Rom_6:6; Rom_8:13.
wretched. Greek. talaiporos. Only here and Rev_3:17. Compare talaiporia, misery, Rom_3:16. Jas_5:1; and the verb talaiporeo, only in Jas_4:9.
deliver = rescue. See first Occurance Mat_6:13. Greek. rhuomai.
the body of this death. The body of sin. Compare Rom_7:13; Rom_6:6; Rom_8:13.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
through. App-104. Rom_7:1.
Jesus Christ. App-98. XL
mind = mind (the new nature) indeed. This is the experience of every one who is the subject of the grace of God, and has received the gift of the new nature as the sign of God’s justification. Not the experience of one man in two successive stages, but the co-existence of the two experiences in the one man at the same time. See The Church Epistles, by E. W. Bullinger, D. D., p. 64.
So then, &c.] The Gr. order is So then I myself with the mind indeed do bondservice to the law of God, but with the flesh to the law of sin.
On “the mind” here, see note just above, last but one on Rom_7:23. On “the law of sin” see second note ibidem.—“To do bondservice to the law of God,” and that with “the mind,” can only describe the state of things when “the mind” is “renewed” (Rom_12:2).—What is the reference of “I myself”? (for so we must render, and not, as with some translators, “The same I”).
In strict grammar it belongs to both clauses; to the service with the mind and to that with the flesh. But remembering how St. Paul has recently dwelt on the Ego as “willing” to obey the will of God, it seems best to throw the emphasis, (as we certainly may do in practice,) on the first clause. Q. d., “In a certain sense, I am in bondage both to God and to sin; but my true self, my now regenerate ‘mind,’ is God’s bondservant; it is my ‘old man,’ my flesh, that serves sin.”
The statement is thus nearly the same as that in Rom_7:17; Rom_7:20.
The Apostle thus sums up and closes this profound description of the state of self, even when regenerate, in view of the full demand of the sacred Law.
He speaks, let us note again, as one whose very light and progress in Divine life has given him an intense perception of sin as sin, and who therefore sees in the faintest deviation an extent of pain, failure, and bondage, which the soul before grace could not see in sin at all. He looks (Rom_7:25, init.) for complete future deliverance from this pain; but it is a real pain now....most here are already perfect...
And he has described it mainly with the view of emphasizing both the holiness of the Law, and the fact that its function is, not to subdue sin, but to detect and condemn it. In the golden passages now to follow, he soon comes to the Agency which is to subdue it indeed. See further, Postscript, p. 268.
Again, I argue, while we are in the flesh, we are not beyond being tempted.
Without sounding pious, or throw the grace of YHVH aside, a huge mistake, believers in Christ do sin, not as the unbeliever, but still commit ACTS of sin.
J.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
You are not to obey this “pulling”.
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
Paul is describing a past issue when we were in the flesh:
“For when we WERE in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” (Romans 7:5)
But believers are not in this predicament any longer:
“But ye are NOT in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Romans 8:9)
Nonsense!
I have seen “Christians” commit worse sins than unbelievers!
And furthermore:
“He that committeth sin is of the devil” (1 John 3:8)
No. Flesh is never reborn.
My Flesh was crucified with Christ. Dead. Washed and Prepared and Kept with Christ, for a day to be raised up Changed.
Ongoing process. My appointed mission to accomplish.
Maybe with Believers, however I delineate between Believer and Converted. Believers can fall away. Converted can Never fall away.
Believers can continue to Sin.
Converted can Sin no more.
Example;
Peter, Believed, yet Denied Jesus.
Peter, Converted, Sinned no more.
I am A Gentile, Converted IN Christ.
...soul restored, ie saved.
...spirit quickened, ie born again.
...body dead, ie waiting, temporarily using Jesus’ risen body.
...mind, ongoing, subjecting my mind, to my new spirit, in my heart.
My sin was never Against a man.
The Lord Jesus forgave my sin Against God.
Christ (the Power of God) keeps me from ever again sinning Against God.
Glory to God,
Taken
Johann
Well-Known Member
Guess you must be one perfect dude, no need of the Holy Spirit, no need of sanctification, no need of growing..you have done it all
SIN, TRESPASS, INIQUITY, &c.
There are many synonymous words to represent the outworking of man’s fallen nature. As these are not always translated by the same English word, it is necessary that we should distinguish them. The student, by reference to the following list, will be able to do so :--
1. chat’a , to sin ; to miss the mark (as in Jdg_20:16). Also of the feet, to stumble and fall (Pro_19:2). Hence, morally, a coming short , blameworthiness -- not necessarily willful. An act of thought, word, or deed, not a condition. Usually (but by no means always) rendered sin, and other words also so rendered.
2. ’asham , trespass , to sin through error or ignorance. Cp. Lev_4:13; Lev_5:2-3. Num_5:6-7. Jdg_21:22. 1Ch_21:3. 2Ch_19:10; 2Ch_28:10; 2Ch_28:13. ’Asham is a breach of commandment, done in ignorance, but, when the guilt is proved, requiring atonement.
3. ’aven , iniquity, specially connected with idolatry. Used because an idol is nothing and vanity (cp. Hos_4:15; Hos_5:8; Hos_10:5; Hos_10:8. Amo_5:5, marg.). Hence, ’aven comes to mean vanity (cp. Job_15:35. Psa_10:7. Pro_22:8, &c.). The word has many renderings, which are pointed out in the passages when it occurs. ’Aven is rather a course of bad conduct flowing from the evil desires of fallen nature, that breaches of the law as such.
4. ’avah , perverseness , from the root to be bent , or crooked . English wrong , i.e. wrung out of course, expresses it (cp. 1Sa_20:30. 2Sa_19:19. 1Ki_8:47. Job_33:37, &c.).
5. ’amal , trouble , labor , toil . Sin viewed in the light of the trouble it causes; and of its burden ; and its grievousness (Isa_10:1. Hab_1:3). Often rendered perverseness (Num_23:21), also mischief (Job_15:35).
6. ’aval , unjust , unfairness, sin in its nature as deceitful , dishonesty, that which is not equal and right, unfairness in dealings. Rendered unjust (Psa_43:1; Psa_82:2. Pro_29:27. Isa_26:10), unrighteous (Lev_19:15; Lev_19:35).
7. ’abar , to pass beyond, transgress. Hence, transgression (Psa_17:3. Hos_6:7; Hos_8:1).
8. ra’a’ , wicked , injurious . From its root, which indicates its nature as breaking up all that is good or desirable; injurious to all others. In Greek poneros , evil , or kakos , bad . Hence especially of moral depravity and corruption, and lewdness. English "good-for-nothing" (1Sa_17:28), naughty (2Ki_2:19. Pro_20:14. Jer_24:2).
9. pash’a , revolt , rebellion . Sin against lawful authority. Often rendered transgression (Psa_51:13. Pro_28:21. Isa_43:27). In Pro_10:12 the action of love or mercy shown stands in strong contrast to this character of the sin.
10. rasha’ , wickedness , in the sense of the restless activity of fallen nature (Job_3:17. Isa_53:9; Isa_57:20-21); where it refers to the activity of the impious and ungodly, or robbers.
11. ma’al , treachery , unfaithfulness , breach of trust , often rendered trespass and transgression. It is used of Achan (Jos_7:1; Jos_22:20). Cp. Jos_22:16. 2Ch_26:18; 2Ch_28:22; 2Ch_33:19. Ezr_9:2; Ezr_9:4. Neh_13:27, &c.
12. shagag , erring from imprudence, rashness, being deceived, not willfully; and shagah, erring willfully through passion or wine, hence, to go astray . As sin it is to be distinguished from presumptuous or high-handed sin. Cp. Lev_4:13. Num_15:22, &c., with Num_15:30. Psa_119:21.
13. zimmah , meditated , wickedness , plotted, planned, and designed; wicked, or lewd purpose, especially of sins of unchastity.
14. chasad = shameful. A Homonym , meaning (1) Here, and Job_37:13 (where it is rendered "mercy" in A.V. and R.V.). But "lightning" is not "mercy" but chastisement. (2) The other meaning is mercy , lovingkindness , or grace . See note on Lev_20:14.
15. shal , fault , committed inadvertently through negligence.
Sinless perfection is in no way, shape or form to be found in scripture.
But I am done arguing the point.
The source is Bullinger, a handy tool, not infallible, but helpful to a person such as me.
J.
For some unknown reason, YOU have taken the liberty to SPEAK for me.....things I have NEVER said apply to me, nor were you asked to SPEAK on my behalf.
Presumptuous and Underhanded on your part!
Any student of Scripture, SHOULD KNOW, the difference between a NATURAL physical BIRTH, and a SPIRITUAL BIRTH, effected EXPRESSLY by, through, of the Holy Spirit, CALLED Converted ‘IN’ Christ, WHICH results IN sanctification, ie BEING SET APART, wholly, whole, holy, perfect-ED, “IN” Christ (Gods POWER, WISDOM, SEED) Lord Jesus.
I “WAS” Naturally BORN IN SIN “AGAINST GOD”.
I “WAS” FORGIVEN “BY” God.
Supernaturally BORN IN THE SPIRIT of “GODS SEED”.
Absolutely, NEVER AGAIN “AGAINST GOD”.
Absolutely, NEVER AGAIN ABLE to “SIN”.
WHAT “WAS” is past.
WHAT “IS”, was fulfilled, is Accomplished.
Trespass AGAINST men?
Absolutely POSSIBLE.
And Absolutely an ongoing, repetitive, REMEDY.
Why you do not know the difference, is on YOU, not me.
Why you attempt to INCLUDE me with YOUR confusion, is on you, not me.
I have already spoken for myself, expressly regarding, SIN and TRESPASSES.
I have already spoken for myself, expressly regarding, MY one on one relationship WITH God....that has NOTHING to do with OTHER men.
My relationships with OTHER people...are as well is one on one.
My relationship with YOU, is scant. I do not know you. And your speaking FOR me, is not landing on an impressive note.
I do not require a commentary, or what means what and when.
I am familiar with Gods ORDER and WAY.
So? When was “SINLESS”, at ANY TIME the topic of discussion or EVEN MENTIONED ?
That is FUNNY. You are done arguing a POINT that was never mentioned or discussed.
Johann
Well-Known Member
οτε
ημεν
G1510
V-IXI-1P
G3753
γαρ
G1063
CONJ
γάρ
assigning a reason
εἰμί
I exist Notice the Verb, Imperfect indicative, if you will.
Struggling with Sin
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? - Certainly not! But in order that - sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment - sin might become - utterly sinful. 14 - We know that - the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to - sin. 15 - - I do not understand what I do. For - what I want to do, - I do not do. But what I hate, - I do. 16 And if - I do what - I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17 - In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is - sin living in me that does it. 18 - I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my - flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but - I cannot carry it out. 19 For - I do not do the good - I want to do. Instead, - I keep on doing the evil - - I do not want to do. 20 And if I do - what - I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is - sin living in me that does it. 21 So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do - good, - - evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in - God’s - law. 23 But I see another law at work in my - body, warring against the law of my - mind and - holding me captive to the law - of sin - that dwells within - - me.2 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this - body - of death? 25 Thanks be - to God, through Jesus Christ our - Lord! So then, with my mind I - serve the law of God, - but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Before you shout this is the unregenerate Paul, think twice, nay, three times
I concur with Paul, the renewed man.
J.
This video for those who are struggling
Johann
Well-Known Member
God gives us the power, through His Grace, and never by our self effort, to exist in this evil world free from its power to deceive and liberated from its ability to control our mind.
If our body was "reborn" we would not be getting a new eternal body, later.
WE get a new body, because our born again Spirit has to have its correct body, and the "body of death" that is "dead because of sin" is not the correct body.
The body is dead because of sin, and if we are born again, then this "flesh" is crucified with Christ. and we are to "reckon" or esteem it dead.
And your verse that is Paul, is his teaching that continues.....
He does not stop there with "woe is me"..., as there he is only diagnosing the issue in himself.....and he then goes on to provide the solution by explaining and teaching that the "captivity" he was suffering, was based on him trying to be good and do right, vs, yielding to the power of Christ which then became his walk with God in the Spirit as this...= "Christ always gives me the Victory".
Paul is careful to say "always", so that we understand that when we DO submit to the right mind of Faith, then we find we can "always" have the Victory." over the flesh, the world and the devil.
Who am i?
Im what God has recreated me to be, as a new creation (Spiritually) same as any other believer.
My 2nd Birthday started my eternal life in Christ. This life is the real me, same as any other born again believer.
Your verse is not talking to the born again, as All the born again are become "the righteousness of God" "In Christ" having been "made righteous" by God, and are already born again into the Kingdom of God, which is IN THEM.
Luke 17:21
Johann
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Made righteous from their OLD sins!
“…he was purged from his old sins.” (2 Peter 1:9)
Not made righteous regardless of unrighteous acts moving forward!
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)
Man, wake up!
And?
I have not in the slightest indicated I am struggling with Sin.
Clearly by, through, of the Power of God, God forgave my Sin Against God.
Clearly by, through, of the Power of God, IN me, I have Overcome, defeated, can no more EVER Again Sin Against God.
Paul was BOTH a JEW under Jewish Law and A Roman citizen under Gentile Roman Law.
I have zero difficulty distinguishing when Pauls SPEECH is applicable to A JEW, under Jewish Law or a Gentile NOT under Jewish Law.
I have NO wonderment of my own Standing...Jew or Gentile!
IF you are confused of your own Standing...that would be accountable to you.
IF you think you SIN “according to” Mosaic/Jewish Law...then that APPLIES to you, not me.
MY sin Against God “WAS” disbelief, and “corrupting my flesh and my soul” Because of my having been naturally born in Disbelief.
Christ the Lord Jesus OFFERED me, “according to His WAY”, and “His ORDER” a GIFT expressly for me, THAT should I elect to TAKE that GIFT, I have RECEIPT of that GIFT, FOREVER.
I have been expressly clear, I have TAKEN and RECEIVED the Gift Christ the Lord Jesus offered, and NO, I do not struggle or ever again commit Sin Against God.
I have been expressly clear, all credit is DUE to Gods POWER.
I have never indicated self power, changed me or maintains me.
Christ has obtained "eternal redemption" for all the born again.
"Obtained = eternal redemption"........ = forever.
Hebrews 9:12
