Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

[St. SteVen]

(if you meant to stray off topic and include something beyond homosexuality).

Actually the intention of this topic is to talk about MORE than homosexuality.

From the OP:

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:
(note: we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to understand them)
I'm not an expert by any stretch; but this is what I have learned to date.

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.

Again, we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to UNDERSTAND them
in order to have any meaningful relationships with LGBTQ humans.

Discussion questions:
Please use the terminology laid about above in the discussion, thanks.

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

 

[Behold]

Okay, I am not a cheerleader for things that God abhors (if you meant to stray off topic and include something beyond homosexuality). What gave you that idea?

Because in all our correspondence, ive not read where you've clearly stated that a Castrated or otherwise Transgender, is not God's Creation.
Ive not read that you've said they are mentally ill.

I stated it and you came running to ME....

If you notice your #12 post, you are "Undecided" ... and that means you are not in agreement with God, who is very decided.

So, if "silence is consent" (undecided) then you are the Man.

Once you take a position that isn't...>"not sure".. then we can agree that you are not a "cheerleader". @RedFan

Let us know....
And until then, the main Cheerleader will keep giving you their "Likes'..

And im sure you appreciate that... @RedFan .

 

[RedFan]

Actually the intention of this topic is to talk about MORE than homosexuality.

From the OP:

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:
(note: we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to understand them)
I'm not an expert by any stretch; but this is what I have learned to date.

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.

Again, we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to UNDERSTAND them
in order to have any meaningful relationships with LGBTQ humans.

Discussion questions:
Please use the terminology laid about above in the discussion, thanks.

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

Correct. So, what gave you the idea that I am a cheerleader for ANYTHING that God abhors?

 

[Behold]

Correct. So, what gave you the idea that I am a cheerleader for ANYTHING that God abhors?

He believes this about you, because your #12 post said you are unsure what you believe.. you are "undecided".

So, He is giving you LIKES because He perceives as does everyone else that you are a cheerleader on His Thread. @RedFan

Im not giving you any of those......

Can you understand why, yet?

Think on that.

 

[RedFan]

If you notice your #12 post, you are "Undecided" ... and that means you are not in agreement with God, who is very decided.

So, if "silence is consent" (undecided) then you are the Man.

Once you take a position that isn't...>"not sure".. then we can agree that you are not a "cheerleader". @RedFan

Let us know....

I am undecided on whether homosexuality is something one is born into or something one freely chooses as a lifestyle. Has God "decided" which is the case? "Is He very decided?" You'll have to show me that one! I'm not aware that God has taken sides on this fascinating biological question.

 

[MA2444]

trivia question time .
if genitals does not define gender
then why does removing and altering them affirm gender . talk about delusion indeed .
something has went bad wrong my friend .
So lets make a simple statement .
GOD does not make mistakes .
what he created us in the womb , male or female
is what we are to the tomb . its really that simple , lest we be as many and try and call GOD a liar and redifine
what humanity deems themselves to be . its insanity my friend , all out reprobation .

Amen, Brother! God made it so easy for us slow learner humans to be able to identify the women. They...look like women. They are very different. There is no confusion! There is only women and men. That's how it works! Duh, lol. I wonder if this is part of the great lie that God allows to envelop the people from scripture?

Online it seems so, but on the street? Not so much! I think they lie about their numbers online. They know that more numbers gets them closer to its a normal thing, lol.

 

[Augustin56]

Every human being has rights, given them by God, regardless of whether they are great sinners or not. Every human being is made in the image and likeness of God, regardless of their state in life.

That being said, here are the errors I see being accepted by our society:

1. Homosexuality is not an identity of a person. Sex activity is a decision (unless one is being raped, of course). Sexual attraction still gives us a choice to react to it or not. That's why one cannot condone adultery just because one married spouse is attracted to someone outside of their marriage. We are not animals, driven by instinct to react to every stimulus that comes across our path. We have been given the gifts of intellect and free will by which we can think and choose what is right and good.
2. It is neither cruel nor wrong to disgree with someone else's choices. The bottom line is truth and morality. Either it is, or it isn't.
3. Love is not agreeing with another so that they might "feel good" about themselves. If that were true, Jesus would have never called out sinners. And He did throughout the New Testament.
a. Love is willing the good of the other, as other. Period. And what is the ultimate good? Eternal life with God in heaven. Everything else
is ground clutter. If you love someone, you want what is best for them. If they get upset because you point out the truth to them, too
bad.
4. The two main drivers of human behavior are 1) the need to be loved and 2) the fear of rejection. Humans will do all sorts of crazy things that are destructive to themselves and others, for these two reasons. Then they'll rationalize them, trying to use reason to explain why wrong is right and right is wrong. My wife was sitting in the mall one day, watching people go by. This young man with a purple Mohawk haircut and ear and face piercings all over walked by. She stared at him, surprised. He stopped and asked her, "What are you looking at?" She said, "Oh, really? You did all this to yourself so that nobody would notice you?!" They both laughted and we strolled off.

 

[Behold]

I am undecided on whether homosexuality is something one is born into or something one freely chooses as a lifestyle.

Lady Gaga is going to give you a "like".... @RedFan

Here is what i can tell you.

God is against homosexuality.

So, you dont have to figure out why the person is living a sexuality that is unnatural.
All you have to do, is take God's position, as your own, and then from that place of perspective, treat anyone as you would want to be treated, but never believe that you are to tolerate all they do...

See that distinction?
Draw that line and stay there.

We are to LOVE< but that does not me we are to TOLERATE everything.

What dont we tolerate?
We dont tolerate what God rejects...

So, the clique' is... "we love the sinner, but we hate and do not tolerate their sin".

 

[MA2444]

The issue is that Forums and "modern christianity" are filled with too many people whose opinion is their God.
And that is why they post Threads that assault the bible and accuse anyone who isn't FOR "Gay rights" and "Transgenderism" as a...
= hater.

This is the typical behavior of someone or anyone who is "secular"= carnally minded....... instead of heavenly minded or "right" minded.

"Right" as in, How the NT teaches us to discern God's perspective regarding all things..

Oh I know. I asken him thatbecause if he answered it, it would either lead us to...they want to reclassify being homo as not sinful behavior or...!!!

 

[Wrangler]

Do you want being homosexual to be reclassifyed as a non sin?

Or is it a sin?

@St. SteVen, I’m not sure you answered this basic question.

I have always seen ‘free’ health care as a major pathway to evil on the public front. And I have always recognized normalizing sexual immorality as a major pathway to evil on the private front.

It is clear you have become a sin apologist, adopted the cultural Marxist mindset that this group of sinners get a pass due to victim status. Sad.

I don’t know what happened to you but you’ve taken the Adversary’s kool aid.

 

[MA2444]

But this sidesteps the reality of those who discover that they have a condition called same-sex attraction.
Something they didn't ask for. They discovered it about themselves. Which indicates that they were indeed born with it.

.
Same sex attraction is brought on by a ment illness which had it's roots in demonic spirits enticing them to committ sins. The people entertained these thoughts and open the door to demonic possession and habitual sin. Which leads to delusions that it is ok so to more mental illness. All because they entertained the thought of it.

And they wont admit it, but most times someone who was gay abused them when they were very young and their subconscious retained that info for later consideration of what just happened and was that normal?

So they got some of the homesexual residue on them and later on it grew.
You mention recently that some are "homophobic"...

You are not a homo. Why is that? Did you laugh at them in the face and say not me boy?! No wonder you're not a homo. You didn't get any on you. Neither did I! So call me homophobic if you wish. It's probably like everything else evil on the planet, Addictive. So...Ewww! Dont get any on you! Don't let 'em in! That's how we must be to guard our heart from such foolishness and evil. You bet I'm homophobic! Get it away! Get it AWAY!!!!

I dont find it offensive to be called homophobic any more. That's me!

 

[St. SteVen]

Correct. So, what gave you the idea that I am a cheerleader for ANYTHING that God abhors?

I'm not claiming that at all.
Sorry for the miscommunication.
I'm glad that you joined the discussion.

/

 

[RedFan]

I'm not claiming that at all.
Sorry for the miscommunication.
I'm glad that you joined the discussion.

/

My misunderstanding.

 

[Wrangler]

Actually the intention of this topic is to talk about MORE than homosexuality.

From the OP:

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:

It’s a mistake to use the terms of one’s opponent as it indicates you’ve already lost.

 

[St. SteVen]

Good post, thanks.

I had the thought earlier that I need to follow up on.
They cherry-pick that one scripture out of a chapter of scripture.
I wonder if they oblige themselves to the rest of that chapter. ???

/

Here's a gem. See below. Verse 22 is the standard Clobber verse.
But look at this. It seems to allow for polygamy provided it is not your wife's sister.

Leviticus 18:18 NIV
Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have
sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

/

 

[MA2444]

I am undecided on whether homosexuality is something one is born into or something one freely chooses as a lifestyle. Has God "decided" which is the case? "Is He very decided?" You'll have to show me that one! I'm not aware that God has taken sides on this fascinating biological question.

God is very decided. It's in

Leviticus 18:5-24 (The whole chapter really)
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:.../KJV

It speaks on all sorts of sexual immorality here. Even abortion and homosexuality. I hope that's what you wanted.

God created us in His image. God does not make mistakes. Demonic possession and mental illness are rampant because we live in a fallen world. God didnt make them Homo's. Sin did that.

 

[RedFan]

God is very decided. It's in

Leviticus 18:5-24 (The whole chapter really)
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.

6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:.../KJV

It speaks on all sorts of sexual immorality here. Even abortion and homosexuality. I hope that's what you wanted.

God created us in His image. God does not make mistakes. Demonic possession and mental illness are rampant because we live in a fallen world. God didnt make them Homo's. Sin did that.

You've missed my point. Yes, the Bible declares homosexual acts sinful. Everyone agrees with that. But as far as I can tell, it is silent on whether homosexuals are born that way or freely choose to be that way. (If you have a passage to the contrary, please share it. Otherwise, I remain uncertain on the answer.)

 

[MA2444]

The thing that jumped out to me in the OP was the term Gender Dysphoria. I had to google that one.

Dysphoria:
dys·pho·ria dis-ˈfȯr-ē-ə plural dysphorias. : a state of feeling very unhappy, uneasy, or dissatisfied. Paradoxically, chronic cocaine use eventually leads to dysphoria—a depressed, low-energy state characterized by flattened emotions, a lack of interest in sex, and physical immobility..../

So...Gender Dysphoria is what then? A state of feeling unhappy, uneasy, or disatisfied with ones own gender?

When would being disatisfied with ones gender be triggered? I;m not sure of the underlying condition here. Is the young man afraid of rejection from girls? Why be scared of girls? They usually dont bite, lol.

I dont get it. It does sound ike a mental illness. A lack of confidence or self esteem. They teach them to strut now, even if their fat & ugly. They make movie stars out of fat chicks now! SO maybe the girls are more intimidating to the youth nowadays?

Unhappy, uneasy and disatisfied. Is that a confusion? I think it is. I suppose that it dont even have to be about girls. Some kids dont like how strict their parents are and may use it as an oppurtunity to be rebellious to them in revenge of some imagined growing pains that they had.
Oh yeah, I'll get you back mom. I'm a girl now and you cant stop me!

 

[Behold]

homosexuals are born that way or freely choose to be that way.

Gays dont reproduce, they Recruit.

What does that show you?

Ever read this partial verse ????

1.) " but deliver us from evil".

And this one.

2.) "Be in the world but not of it".

See those 2. ??????????

The are out to get you, and homosexuality is one of the end results of it once they have you.

 

[Lambano]

LOL - Thanks.
Do you think this topic might help readers to understand these issues better?
They seem to struggle with even the most basic definitions.
The previous thread showed that posters were assuming homosexual behavior of those with gender dysphoria.
Clearly two different things. They seem to want to view LGBTQ as a singular thing.

/

If you're trying to raise their consciousness, first, you have to get people to actually give a $#*!.

Seeing people as "People" instead of some faceless enemy is a good start, though. Hence my comment about Homo Sapiens had a secondary purpose beyond self-amusement. See question #1.