Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

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MA2444

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You've missed my point. Yes, the Bible declares homosexual acts sinful. Everyone agrees with that. But as far as I can tell, it is silent on whether homosexuals are born that way or freely choose to be that way. (If you have a passage to the contrary, please share it. Otherwise, I remain uncertain on the answer.)

Umm, ok. They did freely choose to be that way in rejection of God's truth. That's in Romans 1

Romans 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:.../KJV

It does not give any exceptions to gays, or to trans or to anyone. They are without excuse. They know it is sinful and yet the choose of their own will to do those activities. So they werent born gay. There were not born trans Those are excuses that they try to get us to believe, but the aint gonna fly with God. Because when we now what to do to do the right thing and we choose not to, then it is sin to us.

They were not born like that. It is a choice and perhaps environmental.
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen

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My wife was sitting in the mall one day, watching people go by. This young man with a purple Mohawk haircut and ear and face piercings all over walked by. She stared at him, surprised. He stopped and asked her, "What are you looking at?" She said, "Oh, really? You did all this to yourself so that nobody would notice you?!" They both laughted and we strolled off.
LOL
That's great. Thanks for sharing it.

/
 

RedFan

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Umm, ok. They did freely choose to be that way in rejection of God's truth. That's in Romans 1

Romans 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:.../KJV

It does not give any exceptions to gays, or to trans or to anyone. They are without excuse. They know it is sinful and yet the choose of their own will to do those activities. So they werent born gay. There were not born trans Those are excuses that they try to get us to believe, but the aint gonna fly with God. Because when we now what to do to do the right thing and we choose not to, then it is sin to us.

They were not born like that. It is a choice and perhaps environmental.
I have to disagree with your interpretation here. The question is not whether they are "without excuse," but whether they were born homosexual. Both could be true. (Per Romans 9:20, does the clay say to the Potter "why did you make me thus?")
 
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Behold

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Seeing people as "People" instead of some faceless enemy is a good start, though.

Christians are not homo-phobic, .. we are homo-nauseous.

Listen.

God gives ALL the free will to decide your sexual behavior.
But that does not give you the right to try to force your SEUXAL behavior as a "must accept me".

And if the LAW of a country says differently, then that does not make it RIGHT.. It only makes it LEGAL.

In the USA, the Texas Supreme court "legalized sodomy" (homosexual male sex) in 2003-2004.
That didnt Change God's viewpoint.

Christians can not accept what God does not permit.

This is not "hate speech".

This is TRUTH.

America and Israel are highly tolerant of Gay Sex Practitioners.

There are many countries in this world that will kill you LEGALLY. = for having a perverted sexuality such as child molesting, bestiality, homosexuality.... or similar.
They dont view Gay Sex Acts or Child Rape, or any of this, as a "choice" or a "ethnic group" or a "civil right'.
They view you as a perverted immoral deviant, and they will put you to death, Legally, and they dont ask you how you "" feel about it"" as they are about to cut off your head or burn you alive or flay your skin off.


Wake up = cheerleaders.

God is watching your "opinions"..

Believe it.
 
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RedFan

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God gives you the free will to decide your behavior.
I think everyone on this site agrees with this statement. My particular question was not about behavior, but about whether one is born with whatever sparks same-sex attraction. It is certainly possible that one could be born with it, yet choose not to act in accordance with it for fear of flaunting God's commandment -- which is addressed solely to the behavior, not the innate proclivity.
 
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Behold

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It is certainly possible that one could be born with it,

A baby in a crib wants sodomy?

Really?

"born that way"?

Im not certain if you are able to really think clearly, regarding.......what you keep redundantly saying @RedFan

So, i'll leave you to it.

And we dont need you to come back and say.."well, what i meant was, when they are about 8, 12, 14"..

Geez.
 
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Behold

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My particular question was not about behavior, but about whether one is born with whatever sparks same-sex attraction.

The GAY Agenda


1.) "“The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights. To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference""""

2. ) “The Overhauling of Straight America” as the “bible” of the homosexual agenda.'"

3. ) “almost any behavior begins to look normal if you are exposed to enough of it . . . The way to benumb raw sensitivities about homosexuality is to have a lot of people talk a great deal about the subject in a neutral or supportive way . . . Constant talk builds the impression that public opinion is at least divided on the subject, and that a sizable segment accepts or even practices homosexuality.
“And when we say talk about homosexuality, we mean just that. In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed .""

4.) '""When we are exposed to anything repeatedly, it becomes routine and normal. What initially might shock someone eventually can become acceptable. And acceptability is the ultimate goal. What at one time was highly offensive to the vast majority of Americans is now no big deal. They’ve been lulled into complacency."""

5.) """Where we talk is important, The average American household watches over seven hours of TV daily. Those hours open up a gateway into the private world of straights, through which a Trojan horse might be passed . . .
“So far, gay Hollywood has provided our best covert weapon in the battle to desensitize the mainstream. Bit by bit over the past ten years, gay characters and gay themes have been introduced into TV programs and films . . . On the whole the impact has been encouraging.”

6.)'"When conservative churches condemn gays, there are only two things we can do to confound the homophobia of true believers. First, we can use talk to muddy the moral waters. This means publicizing support for gays by more moderate churches,"""

7.) “In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be cast as victims in need of protection,” @St. SteVen

8.) "If gays are presented, instead, as a strong and prideful tribe promoting a rigidly nonconformist and deviant lifestyle, they are more likely to be seen as a public menace that justifies resistance and oppression. For that reason, we must forego the temptation to strut our ‘gay pride’ publicly when it conflicts with the Gay Victim image,”
“It almost goes without saying that groups on the farthest margin of acceptability such as NAMBLA [the North American Man-Boy Love Association, which as its name suggests promotes adult-child homosexual sex] must play no part at all in such a campaign: suspected child-molesters will never look like victims . . .

9.) “At a later stage of the media campaign for gay rights . . . it will be time to get tough with remaining opponents. To be blunt, they must be vilified . . . Our goal here is twofold. First, we seek to replace the mainstream’s homophobia with shame and guilt. Second, we intend to make the anti-gays look so nasty that average Americans will want to dissociate themselves from such types”

10.) ""You say we all lead lives you don’t respect. But you’re just frightened. You think that we’ll corrupt your kids if our agenda goes unchecked. Funny, just this once, you’re correct.”
“We’ll convert your children – happens bit by bit, quietly and subtly and you will barely notice it…”
“Just like you’re worried, they’ll change their group of friends, you won’t approve of where they go at night. And you’ll be disgusted when they start finding things online that you kept far from their sight…”
 

Michiah-Imla

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ignorance about LGBTQ issues

“…I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.” (Romans 16:19)

There’s no further need to learn about “LGBTQ issues” other than the simple fact that it is wickedness and an abomination.
 
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RedFan

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A baby in a crib wants sodomy?

Really?

"born that way"?

Im not certain if you are able to really think clearly, regarding. about what you keep saying @RedFan

So, i'll leave you to it.

And we dont need you to come back and say.."well, what i meant was, when they are about 8, 12, 14"..

Geez.
Obviously a baby has a sexual attraction to neither same-sex nor opposite-sex. But whatever it is that sparks such attractions at puberty had to be either innate, or freely chosen. I don't know which. The Bible doesn't tell us which. Most psychologists lean toward innate. But I don't know.
 
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Debp

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Notice the term "LGBTQ humans" in the topic title. I need to remind Christians that these people are human. - Sigh. :(
Because they are typically treated by Christians as subhuman.

I treat all of my neighbors and others I have contact with in the same way.
I love my neighbor as myself as Jesus taught us.

However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with sinful lifestyles.

You seem to think that agreeing with God's Word is abusive. You either agree with the Bible, God's Word....or you don't.

What do you think of God's Word? That seems to be the crux of the matter here.
 
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Behold

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Obviously a baby has a sexual attraction to neither same-sex nor opposite-sex. But whatever it is that sparks such attractions at puberty

Your question is , again, not well thought out.

First, you are presuming that everyone who is a homosexual, started at "puberty."
So, that is your assumption, that allows you to keep not facing the facts.
IN fact, there are many who were "straight", and decided that they wanted to have a "fluid sexuality".

Miley Cyrus
Lady Gaga
Kristan Stewart
Christopher Hitchens.
David Bowie


The list of "i wanted to see what its like".....is EPIC.

Some remain, and some depart.

And i'll tell you again..

= Gays don't reproduce, they Recruit.

Now, i would say that you are not a person who goes to a Gym, @RedFan
If you do, or if you will later, you'll find in any gym = Gay girls who wear a shirt that says...

"I love Pink"..

And they are looking for "Straights"..

As in the Gay world, their #1 agenda, their greatest Lust, is to "turn a straight person".
This means to lead them into a gay sex act(s), to seduce them, so that they become .....

See it?

Now, you and @St. SteVen , are having some fun, as carnality is like that, but, im telling you.
He is only here with "click bait" Topics, and you are just "helping out">

God is not mocked.
Believe it.
 
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MA2444

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I have to disagree with your interpretation here. The question is not whether they are "without excuse," but whether they were born homosexual. Both could be true. (Per Romans 9:20, does the clay say to the Potter "why did you make me thus?")

God created mankind in His image. God did not make people to be gay. We all live in a fallen and corrupt world and so it is the result of sin in the world and not God that they are gay.

Why does God get blamed for everything? Peeople like to blame God. Aint it just aint so Brother.

Besides, if God did make some people gay, then why would He tell them in Leviticus that being gay is wrong? God dont do that sort of thing, He is a holy and just God.
 

RedFan

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Besides, if God did make some people gay, then why would He tell them in Leviticus that being gay is wrong? God dont do that sort of thing, He is a holy and just God.
God making people gay and therefore with a proclivity to sinfulness is exactly the concern I am wrestling with -- and that Paul alluded to in telling the Romans that the clay doesn't ask the Potter "why did you make me this way?" You need to acknowledge that our "holy and just God," as you put it, is the same God who punishes children and grandchildren and great grandchildren for the sins of a father (Ex. 34:7, Num. 14:18, Deut. 5:9). There are some things we just can't understand about God's intentions for particular people. Ask Job..
 
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St. SteVen

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I treat all of my neighbors and others I have contact with in the same way.
I love my neighbor as myself as Jesus taught us.

However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with sinful lifestyles.
That's good. I agree.

You seem to think that agreeing with God's Word is abusive. You either agree with the Bible, God's Word....or you don't.

What do you think of God's Word? That seems to be the crux of the matter here.
There are plenty of others making LGBTQ a black and white issue.

Contrary to the knee-jerk reactions to my posts and topics, I am not suggesting that we swing wide the doors
of the church to allow the LGBTQ community behave as they wish in our houses of worship.

I am asking that we lower the draw bridge, remove the gators from the moat, and stop shooting arrows at them while they approach.
The church has made enemies with these people whom they don't know personally, and frankly know nothing about.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Shouldn't that come into play here?

We seem to be putting a western Christian conservative social culture above our need to reach the world.

Have you read the gay Christian response to how the church uses the Bible against them?
Do a search on Clobber Verses. < Link. Or listen to them testify to Christ. Are they Christians, or not?

Not everyone agrees with your biblical views on the subject. Did you know that?
Here's the gay Christian perspective on the Clobber Verses in the Bible. (No, I'm not gay. - sigh)

What are the clobber passages? Stop shaming LGBTQ people with the Bible.

Article intro quote:
"LGBT people have suffered from being metaphorically clobbered over the head with the Bible for a very long time,
and sometimes the harassment has erupted in deathly violence. There are 7 passages in the Bible that have provided
so-called ammunition for homophobic people to shame us. They use these biblical texts to tell us that we are broken,
less-than, perverted, degenerate, and abominations, etc. Over time, these passages have become known as
the “clobber passages.” It is past time for these practices and habits to stop."

/
 
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Lambano

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Why does God get blamed for everything? Peeople like to blame God. Aint it just aint so Brother.
God making people gay and therefore with a proclivity to sinfulness is exactly the concern I am wrestling with -- and that Paul alluded to in telling the Romans that the clay doesn't ask the Potter "why did you make me this way?"
Is this an accurate description of what we naturally are?

We are filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. We are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. We are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; we invent ways of doing evil; we disobey our parents; we have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

We ALL have a proclivity to sinfulness, whether it's sexual sin or some other sins. The Reformers got the Depravity thing right; just watch the 11:00 news. Or read some of the posts on this forum. I hope nobody is under the delusion that mankind is inherently good and doesn't need a savior.

So, have you ever asked, "Why are we the way we are?" Yeah, sentient clay does ask the Potter, "Why have you made me thus?"
 
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amigo de christo

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Lady Gaga is going to give you a "like".... @RedFan

Here is what i can tell you.

God is against homosexuality.

So, you dont have to figure out why the person is living a sexuality that is unnatural.
All you have to do, is take God's position, as your own, and then from that place of perspective, treat anyone as you would want to be treated, but never believe that you are to tolerate all they do...

See that distinction?
Draw that line and stay there.

We are to LOVE< but that does not me we are to TOLERATE everything.

What dont we tolerate?
We dont tolerate what God rejects...

So, the clique' is... "we love the sinner, but we hate and do not tolerate their sin".
exactly my friend .
the question is not whether they born that way or not
the question is DO GOD APPROVE OF THE SIN . and the answer ..........NO .
keep it simple . You see this idea they were born that way
clouds the mind and makes it seem so evil for one to try and correct them . But its a snare is all this is to confuse .
SO the question is not how one was born or why one do as he do .
the question is DO GOD APPROVE OF IT . and that makes it real easy for us to correct and not approve of the behavoir .
Any behavoir that is contrary to GOD is behavoir we cannot try and make seem okay or good .
 
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