Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

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WPM

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6. Conflating Jesus' parable regarding binding the strong man before his house (the demon-possessed man) can be broken into and his goods spoiled, with the ruler of the demons being bound for a thousand years in terms of what God allows him to do as he introduces lies in order to deceive human beings.

This is NOT a parable. He is illustrating what He is literally doing in their presence.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 records: unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (deo) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

This familiar discourse by our Lord came as a response to the crude scoffs of the religious Scribes (during His earthly ministry) dismissing Christ’s deliverance ministry as a work of Satan. Christ’s reply confirmed that the binding of Satan commenced 2,000 yrs ago and is not simply a future hope that will occur after the Lord’s return. He said: “No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.” Christ was firstly referring to the false charge that was laid at his door in relation to his assault on the demonic realm. Secondly, He was describing the subjugation of the “unclean spirits” as “when they saw him” they “fell down before him” in surrender.

Jesus said in the corresponding passage in Luke 11:20-22, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”

Here, Christ highlights the sovereign power of the kingdom of God and reveals how the “strong man” – Satan – and his kingdom of devils can only be defeated by One that is stronger than them, namely Himself – the Son of God. As we examine the gospels we discover, Satan was stripped everywhere that Christ confronted him. The Lord entered the devil’s house and took authority over him and spoilt His goods. Previously, Satan's grip on the nations was so strong and so embedded that the truth of God's Word could not penetrate through. The devil overwhelmingly controlled the Gentile nations.

Isaiah 61:1-2: “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn.”

It is no coincidence that Jesus read this Old Testament passage as His first message. This was deliberate and this was providential. It set the stage for what was about to come. He set out a marker! Isaiah 61:1 is Christ’s mission statement. Here He laid all His cards on the table. Here He confirmed His assignment. This embodied who He was and what drove Him during His ministry. This was Christ’s earthly task. This was His agenda. This is what He come to achieve. This was His goal. Jesus come to set man free. He was a liberator.
  • He didn’t want to leave man in a spiritual prison.
  • He didn’t want to leave him in darkness.
  • He didn’t want him to be a trophy of Satan’s assaults.
  • He didn’t want him to be broken-hearted.
These captives that He spoke about who were about to be liberated were you and me. His mission included binding up the brokenhearted.

Ephesians 4:8 says, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive.”

Hades had no more hold upon the Old Testament redeemed because the penalty had been paid for sin, and therefore death, Hades and Satan were stripped of their ugly power over them.

In an article on John Piper’s Desiring God website, fellow of theology at New Saint Andrews College Joe Rigney teaches: “Following his death for sin, then, Jesus journeys to Hades, to the city of death, and rips its gates off the hinges. He liberates Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, John the Baptist, and the rest of the Old Testament faithful, ransoming them from the power of Sheol … They had waited there for so long, not having received what was promised, so that their spirits would be made perfect along with the saints of the new covenant (Hebrews 11:39–40; 12:23).

He continues: “After his resurrection, Jesus ascends to heaven and brings the ransomed dead with him, so that now paradise is no longer down near the place of torment, but is up in the third heaven, the highest heaven, where God dwells.”

David Wilkerson said: “Jesus plundered the devil at Calvary, stripping him of all power and authority. When Christ rose victorious from the grave, he led an innumerable host of redeemed captives out of Satan's grasp. And that blood-bought procession is still marching on.”

Barnes Notes on the Bible says: "Man was held by Satan as a prisoner. His chains were around him. Christ rescued the captive prisoner, and designed to make him a part of his triumphal procession into heaven, that thus the victory might be complete."
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Your BIG-devil small-god Premil theology is exposed throughout the Word of God. I NEVER said Satan had free control from his prison cell. Where did you get that? He is currently held within the boundaries of God's spiritual prison restrained by spiritual chains. He is limited in his movement. He is under constant observation. He is subject to the rule of law (God's Word).
  • With the coming of Christ to this earth came the introduction of His spiritual kingdom.
  • With the introduction of His spiritual kingdom came a direct challenge to the power and influence of Satan on planet earth.
  • With the direct challenge to the power and influence of Satan on planet earth came the spiritual empowerment of the people of God to confront and overcome Satan and his demonic angels.
Agree. Also, the Premil doctrine misses or ignores the fact that the dragon, representing Satan, is bound with "a great chain". The word "great" there is translated from the Greek word "megas" which means "large" or "long". They change it into a small or short chain that makes him completely immobile and unable to do anything. But, "a great chain" implies that he is not completely incapacitated and immobilized, but rather is restrained to some extent, but not completely. His binding has nothing to do with preventing him from doing anything at all, it has to do with restraining his power that he had before in Old Testament times when he held the power of death (Heb 2:14-15) and had free reign, by God's permission, to do pretty much anything he wanted including keeping people in slavery to the fear of death and preventing them from hearing the word of God.
 

marks

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Read what he said again. He is saying that is all Premils bring to the table.
I hardly agree with that statement. The quickest skimming of this thread shows that false. Whether you agree with the points made, obviously there are many posts that offer that member's POV. To which you respond with insults.

Attributing to others what one does themself. Hmmm.

If you are OK with personal insults mixed into your sharing of your views, I ask you, what purpose does it serve? What do you gain with your insults to others?

Much love!
 

WPM

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7. Flatly ignoring the fact that those who are said to reign with Christ for a thousand years had been beheaded for their refusal to worship the beast which had ascended from the abyss, and instead asserting that it's referring to billions of Christians who reigned with Christ over a period of over 1,900 years before the beast had even ascended from the abyss.
  • The beast has been around for over 2000 years. No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or empire could fulfil that.
  • How can an evil leader literally be “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? Only a spirit can do that.
  • There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Revelation 17:8). Anytime it is mentioned it is shown it to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
  • The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
  • He embodies seven wicked kingdoms in history. No man can possibly accomplish that.
  • According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of man, not the number of a man.
  • What human being in history originated out of the sea?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I hardly agree with that statement.
It was a general statement, but I would agree it doesn't apply to literally all Premills.

If you are OK with personal insults mixed into your sharing of your views, I ask you, what purpose does it serve? What do you gain with your insults to others?
I haven't done that to you, so you don't need to worry about it. It's quite noticeable that you say nothing to them when they make insults which is clearly only because you agree with their pre-trib beliefs and/or their Premil beliefs.
 
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marks

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It's quite noticeable that you say nothing to them when they make insults which is clearly only because you agree with their pre-trib beliefs and/or their Premil beliefs.
Or it's because I'm not reading their posts.

You can accept that answer, or you can continue to declare I'm being intellectually dishonest. And we've already established you are OK with saying things like that. So there it is.

The question was more for you to think about. What do you gain through insults to others. You do in fact get a payoff. That's why people do what they do, it works for them on some level.

Fleshy ways bring fleshy results, and spiritual ways bring spiritual results.

Much love!
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Or it's because I'm not reading their posts.

You can accept that answer, or you can continue to declare I'm being intellectually dishonest. And we've already established you are OK with saying things like that. So there it is.

The question was more for you to think about. What do you gain through insults to others. You do in fact get a payoff. That's why people do what they do, it works for them on some level.

Fleshy ways bring fleshy results, and spiritual ways bring spiritual results.

Much love!
You don't read any of their posts? Why not? Anyway, I'm not talking about this issue with you anymore. Please address what I said in the second post of this thread. No one else seems to want to. You started to address a few things I said there a little bit, but then the discussion fizzled. I'm more than willing to continue that discussion free of insults if you're interested.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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  • The beast has been around for over 2000 years. No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or empire could fulfil that.
  • How can an evil leader literally be “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? Only a spirit can do that.
  • There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Revelation 17:8). Anytime it is mentioned it is shown it to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
  • The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
  • He embodies seven wicked kingdoms in history. No man can possibly accomplish that.
  • According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of man, not the number of a man.
  • What human being in history originated out of the sea?
Good post. Part of the reason that Premils misinterpret Revelation 20 is because they have a false understanding of the beast. It's not just a future entity but has been around for a long time already. They seem to ignore that John said the beast "was" before he wrote the book. Despite saying it "is not" at the time he wrote the book, John indicated that one of the heads "is" at that time, which represented the Roman empire. So, saying the beast "is not" while it was considered to be bound in the bottomless pit/abyss, did not mean that the beast was not active at all. It means that it's influence was restrained and that is how Satan's binding should be understood as well.

Also, it should be understood that if the beast is in the bottomless pit, as it was at the time John wrote the book, it only follows that the dragon, Satan, would be in the bottomless pit at the same time since the beast and Satan work together. The dragon gives the beast its power (Revelation 13:4). So, if the beast is restrained and in the bottomless pit/abyss, so is the dragon, Satan. When the beast ascends from the bottomless pit, so will the dragon.
 

Taken

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I agree, but you make it complicated with your convoluted interpretations.


Here's a prime example of how you make scripture more complicated than it is. You're trying to say that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is not the second coming of Christ. Yes, it is.
IF you actually Stayed IN CONTEXT of what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS ( instead of what your Carnal Mind IS interpreting… YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND…

It IS “The Son of man” that was Sent to Earth.
It IS “The Son of man” …while ON Earth… First Called By God… the Son of God….
* BECAUSE … God Said “HE” would be Called the “Son of God”…
Luke 1:35
Matt 3:17

And BECAUSE …
God said He Would BE A Father To Him… And HE (Jesus) would BE to God, A Son.
Heb 1:5

That Holy THING… called The Word of God, called The Son of Man, called the Lamb of God, called Jesus, called the Lord, called the Son of God, called The Christ, called God…(etc.)
… is Revealing to the Reader…
The Effects “OF” THE Lord God Almighty’s Omni-Presence…
AND …
bY “WHAT name / God IS “Called”… WHEN “He IS Accomplishing “Particular Works”.


In Thes 4: 15, 16, 17…
Pay attention…
The Lord… descends from Heaven…
(not called Christ
( not called the Lamb,
( not called God,
(not called the Son of man,
( not called the Son of God,

Names and Titles IN Context Matter.

You can call Donald Trump… Donald, Mr. President… but NOT call Him Dad or Grandpa…but others CAN.

He who shall “Return to Earth “IS” the Son of Man (with Power, with His Angles and with His Raptured Saints).

It must Be the Son of Man who “Returns To Earth…”… or ALL eyes of Earthly men, Would NOT be Able TO See Him!

The Lord Descends From Heaven to the Clouds…
Why rewrite the Text And say…the Son of man has returned to the Earth?
He doesn’t APPEAR until …
Rev.14:14
For all to See sitting on a White Cloud…
Still has not stepped ON Earth/ Returned To Earth.

The Lords holy servant sounds the Alarm , signal, Trump, Summoning those IN Christ Up to meet the Lord in the Air.

Are you worried About Those (unConfessed) Believers (Not IN Christ)…((not being summoned up?)
No worry…
IF they believe IN Jesus…
IF their Body Dies During the Trib…
God will Bring them , With Him…
1 Thes 4:14
First Resurrection.





1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
No.
1 Thes 14:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.



What a bunch of unintelligible, indecipherable gibberish. You need to learn to communicate more clearly and stop making everything so complicated.
Your own words show How You corrupt the Context and Change Scripture…

Of course the Facts would THUS make no sense to you.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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IF you actually Stayed IN CONTEXT of what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS ( instead of what your Carnal Mind IS interpreting… YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND…

It IS “The Son of man” that was Sent to Earth.
It IS “The Son of man” …while ON Earth… First Called By God… the Son of God….
* BECAUSE … God Said “HE” would be Called the “Son of God”…
Luke 1:35
Matt 3:17

And BECAUSE …
God said He Would BE A Father To Him… And HE (Jesus) would BE to God, A Son.
Heb 1:5

That Holy THING… called The Word of God, called The Son of Man, called the Lamb of God, called Jesus, called the Lord, called the Son of God, called The Christ, called God…(etc.)
… is Revealing to the Reader…
The Effects “OF” THE Lord God Almighty’s Omni-Presence…
AND …
bY “WHAT name / God IS “Called”… WHEN “He IS Accomplishing “Particular Works”.


In Thes 4: 15, 16, 17…
Pay attention…
The Lord… descends from Heaven…
(not called Christ
( not called the Lamb,
( not called God,
(not called the Son of man,
( not called the Son of God,

Names and Titles IN Context Matter.

You can call Donald Trump… Donald, Mr. President… but NOT call Him Dad or Grandpa…but others CAN.

He who shall “Return to Earth “IS” the Son of Man (with Power, with His Angles and with His Raptured Saints).

It must Be the Son of Man who “Returns To Earth…”… or ALL eyes of Earthly men, Would NOT be Able TO See Him!

The Lord Descends From Heaven to the Clouds…
Why rewrite the Text And say…the Son of man has returned to the Earth?
He doesn’t APPEAR until …
Rev.14:14
For all to See sitting on a White Cloud…
Still has not stepped ON Earth/ Returned To Earth.

The Lords holy servant sounds the Alarm , signal, Trump, Summoning those IN Christ Up to meet the Lord in the Air.

Are you worried About Those (unConfessed) Believers (Not IN Christ)…((not being summoned up?)
No worry…
IF they believe IN Jesus…
IF their Body Dies During the Trib…
God will Bring them , With Him…
1 Thes 4:14
First Resurrection.
LOL. What a bunch of incoherent nonsense. Wow. But, thanks for proving my point that your doctrine is not based on clear, straightforward scriptures.

Your own words show How You corrupt the Context and Change Scripture…

Of course the Facts would THUS make no sense to you.
Why are you afraid to address any of the passages I referenced in the second post of this thread? If you think I'm supposedly corrupting the context and changing scripture, then how about you show how those scriptures I use to support my doctrine should be interpreted?