Unpopular Opinions

[Sigma]

ohhh, I see, you want your pop corn instant gratification ameliorated ...

If it's not a problem for you to simply say whether you accept or reject that the Messiah is God Incarnate then you'll do it. If it is a problem for you, then you won't. It's that simple.

 

[quietthinker]

If it's not a problem for you to simply say whether you accept or reject that the Messiah is God Incarnate then you'll do it. If it is a problem for you, then you won't. It's that simple.

I see you have it all figured out!

 

[Sigma]

I see you have it all figured out!

Yea and clearly it's a problem for you to simply say whether you accept or reject that the Messiah is God Incarnate. Hopefully you'll reach a point where you can.

 

[BlessedPeace]

God does not kill

Who could ever have that wrong opinion having read the Bible?

 

[XFire]

Yea and clearly it's a problem for you to simply say whether you accept or reject that the Messiah is God Incarnate. Hopefully you'll reach a point where you can.

I would say Jesus is the Messiah. But not God the Father. And if you want to use the word Incarnate then that's ok. But please rise up to what and who the Bible says you are. In Jesus's own words in John 10 34..36. And he states that the scripture can not be broken.
Also remember that Jesus himself in matt 28.18. Did not receive all power in heaven and earth until after the resurrection. And even with that Jesus still does not know the day of his return. Only God the Father.

With that said. If Jesus is God incarnate and God is not a liar titus 1.2. Then why was Jesus tempted. Luke 4.1,,13, then in luke 18.19 Jesus himself states that he is not God.

So let's see. You have rev 3 14, heb 2.7that states Jesus was made. You have Jesus himself state he is not God.

God can not lie. Sigma. Please quit listening to the pulpit and read the actual words in the kjv. Or the vulgate..

And there brother and sisters is why you do not have to have sound doctrine for salvation. You only have to believe in the atonement and God's love for you. Anything else is religion and legalism.

 

[Sigma]

I would say Jesus is the Messiah. But not God the Father. And if you want to use the word Incarnate then that's ok. But please rise up to what and who the Bible says you are. In Jesus's own words in John 10 34..36. And he states that the scripture can not be broken.
Also remember that Jesus himself in matt 28.18. Did not receive all power in heaven and earth until after the resurrection. And even with that Jesus still does not know the day of his return. Only God the Father.

With that said. If Jesus is God incarnate and God is not a liar titus 1.2. Then why was Jesus tempted. Luke 4.1,,13, then in luke 18.19 Jesus himself states that he is not God.

So let's see. You have rev 3 14, heb 2.7that states Jesus was made. You have Jesus himself state he is not God.

God can not lie. Sigma. Please quit listening to the pulpit and read the actual words in the kjv. Or the vulgate..

And there brother and sisters is why you do not have to have sound doctrine for salvation. You only have to believe in the atonement and God's love for you. Anything else is religion and legalism.

The one God is a Triune God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I didn't say Jesus the Son is the Father, I said He's God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit are God.

In Jn. 1:1 we read,

'In beginning was the Word"
"Ἐν (In) ἀρχῇ (beginning) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"the Word was with God"
"καὶ (and) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God),..."

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

We read Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus the Messiah was God Incarnate: Jesus, the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33). Therefore, God didn't create Jesus, because He didn't create Himself, as God is eternal.

Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

In Jn. 8:58, first Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? My answer is, as He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, the Pharisees understood Jesus again was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

Jesus's apostle, Thomas, even called Him "God": "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

 

[XFire]

Ok let's start with John 1.1.

In the beginning was the Word,

What is the vers in the Bible that backs that up. Rev 3.14. Jesus is the first creation of God.

and the Word was with God,

Yes Jesus was with God As he made the heavens and the earth.

and the Word was God.

Yes. Jesus was heir apparent as he sits at the right had of God the Father.

Jesus is the alpha and omega-- the first and the last.
again the ref is rev 3.14.

And as far as three in one you should read John 14.20, 23. Remember God made us all in His image. And like any good father He wants us to be like Him. We only have 2 rules for being like him. The 1 & 2 comnandment.

You are holding to Catholics dogma that the HS proceeds from the father and the son.

 

[Sigma]

and the Word was God.

Yes.

You claim to agree the Word is God, yet you deny that Jesus (the Word) is God, even though we read in Scripture that the Word is God:

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

Jesus, the Word made flesh and the Messiah, is God Incarnate.

 

[XFire]

Jesus was heir. So he grew up to be God, Jehova. As we are destined to do the same

 

[Sigma]

Jesus was heir. So he grew up to be God, Jehova.

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

You claim to agree Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word called God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate. Therefore, Jesus didn't grow up to become God for He always was God, as God is eternal: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

 

[quietthinker]

Who could ever have that wrong opinion having read the Bible?

Those who read but don't understand or should I say, know Jesus the Christ

 

[PossibleThrowawayAccount]

In general being a Christian is my unpopular opinion in this godless age. I got a bunch most, if not all, of you guys will disagree with:

• Every living thing (including animals and plants) will be resurrected.
• Those in Hell will eventually be freed (universal reconciliation). Christians will be rulers of non-Christians.
• Gays and lesbians go to Heaven if they are Christians.
• God doesn't like me
• God knew all along that man would sin. Space is endless because of how big the new earth will be.
• Trans people will be resurrected in a body of the gender they identify (and the good ones are resurrected)
• There are still intimate relationships in Heaven along with books, televisions, sports and cars.
• Christian suicide victims go to Heaven.
• Priests and religious leaders will be judged the harshest because they should have known better.
• We don't have guardian angels.
• Mother Angelica was the only televangelist who wasn't crooked and will be canonized someday.
• Moses didn't write all of the Torah but likely orally composed some of it.
• Non-Christian husbands/wives share their Christian spouse's salvation if they are not anti Christian.
• God is responsible for everything, good and bad, that happens to us. Yet at the same time Satan rules the world.
• Jesus refused to name Judas as a betrayer early on because the disciples would have killed him.
• The anti-christ will be a muslim.
• Church has no importance these days and many are corrupted.
• Psalms only had one author.
• The Old Testament is of little importance to us but is an important prologue to the NT.
• The NIV is the best translation of the Bible.
• The Bible may have some errors.
• The virgin Mary had more children after Jesus.
• Young earth creationism.

 

[XFire]

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

You claim to agree Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word called God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate. Therefore, Jesus didn't grow up to become God for He always was God, as God is eternal: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

But again. That is not what the scripture says. Jesus himself states that he is the first creation of God. And Jesus himself says he is not God. And yes he is the Messiah.
I have to believe the words on the page over the theories of man.

 

[Sigma]

Jesus himself states that he is the first creation of God. And Jesus himself says he is not God.

That's not what Scripture says. This is what Scripture says:

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

We read Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus the Jesus the Messiah was God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? My answer is, as He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

 

[XFire]

You have taken the scripture interpretation to be fat. That is another tradition of man from he 8 or 9th century. I stand on what my Savior says. And if we want to split hairs. The book of revelation was dictated whereas the book of John is inspired. That eats it was his words that John could remember.

Brother please come out of denominational theories that only hide the truth fr I m God's children.

 

[Chains Broken]

Non-Christian husbands/wives share their Christian spouse's salvation if they are not anti Christian.

I really hope so. It would be so difficult otherwise.

 

[Sigma]

I stand on what my Savior says.

If that were true, you wouldn't reject Jesus's words that I've quoted where He called Himself God. The same Jesus said to be "the Word made flesh" (Jn. 1:14), the same Word said to be God in Jn. 1:1. The same Jesus said to be God by His apostle, Thomas: "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

 

[XFire]

If your still quoting John 1.1. 3. Those aren't Jesus's words. Those are Johns.

In John 20 28. Thomas called him God. And yes at that time he was due to Matt 28.18. Also. Please remember that the book of John wasn't completed til around 90ad. I also believe that is why we don't have 4 synopsis Gospels as John probably read the other 3 and didn't need to duplicate it again.

 

[Pearl]

Note: refusing to answer speaks volumes.

I didn't think this was a discussion thread. It's called 'Unpopular opinions'.

 

[Sigma]

If your still quoting John 1.1. 3. Those aren't Jesus's words. Those are Johns.

I didn't say they're Jesus's words. John wrote them, but the words came from God, and again we read:

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

We read Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus the Jesus the Messiah was God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? My answer is, as He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

The same Jesus said to be God by His apostle, Thomas: "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

I've given simple and straightforward proof where Jesus called Himself God and others called Him God, because He is God Incarnate.