Unpopular Opinions

[Sigma]

I didn't think this was a discussion thread. It's called 'Unpopular opinions'.

It seems Jesus being God Incarnate is an unpopular opinion, but there's proof He is.

 

[Sigma]

@XFire,

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

We read Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus the Jesus the Messiah was God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

In Jn. 10:22-36, the Pharisees said Jesus will be stoned for blasphemy, because like you they didn't believe Him when He said He's God. However, despite that threat, Jesus didn't deny He called Himself God because He is.

I understand you've been taught Jesus the Messiah isn't God Incarnate, so I don't expect you to immediately accept that He is, but we clearly read God is the Word, and that the Word became flesh: Jesus, and thus Jesus is God Incarnate. It's right there in black and white. It doesn't get any simpler or clearer. Therefore, your interpretation of the verse where you believe Jesus said He's not God is wrong.

 

[XFire]

No that isn't straight forward proof. John cal Jesus God. And at the time the book of John was written Jesus had been ressurected and all power was given him. But in Jesus own words, before the resurrection Jesus refused to call himself God.

Jesus is/was the heir to the throne of God. And he sits with God on the throne as evidence by Stephen the martyr. And we are joint heirs to the throne of God as per Jesus's words.

@XFire,

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

We read Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus the Jesus the Messiah was God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

In Jn. 10:22-36, the Pharisees said Jesus will be stoned for blasphemy, because like you they didn't believe Him when He said He's God. However, despite that threat, Jesus didn't deny He called Himself God because He is.

I understand you've been taught Jesus the Messiah isn't God Incarnate, so I don't expect you to immediately accept that He is, but we clearly read God is the Word, and that the Word became flesh: Jesus, and thus Jesus is God Incarnate. It's right there in black and white. It doesn't get any simpler or clearer. Therefore, your interpretation of the verse where you believe Jesus said He's not God is wrong.

I am catholic. I was raised with more of man's traditions than most people.

 

[Sigma]

But in Jesus own words, before the resurrection Jesus refused to call himself God.

False. At no point in Scripture does Jesus refuse to call Himself God, and there's at least two instances where Jesus called Himself God prior to His resurrection:

Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? As He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

 

[XFire]

Wow. Let's start with John 10.34..36. Even here he states the scripture can not be broken. Then since God can not be tempted or he is a liar. Titus 1.2 how is Jesus God since he was tempted 40 days in the wilderness. So this verse refuses the argument that Jesus is God incarnate. Jesus also states only God is good matt 10.18. Mark 1:12 13. And then there is rev 1.1..
Then there is where Jesus states he is the alpha and omega (the first and the last), also he states he is the beginning. Let's see then. Mark 10.6, heb 2.7, John 1.1..3, then col 1.15 which all lead back to rev 3.14. Jesus calling himself the "Beginning of the creation of God"

I am finished with this thread. For all those offended by what I have written: please read the scriptures in the KJV. And I pray that you will belive the words in the Bible over the word from the pulpit.

 

[Sigma]

Wow. Let's start with John 10.34..36. Even here he states the scripture can not be broken. Then since God can not be tempted or he is a liar. Titus 1.2 how is Jesus God since he was tempted 40 days in the wilderness. So this verse refuses the argument that Jesus is God incarnate. Jesus also states only God is good matt 10.18. Mark 1:12 13. And then there is rev 1.1..
Then there is where Jesus states he is the alpha and omega (the first and the last), also he states he is the beginning. Let's see then. Mark 10.6, heb 2.7, John 1.1..3, then col 1.15 which all lead back to rev 3.14. Jesus calling himself the "Beginning of the creation of God"

I am finished with this thread. For all those offended by what I have written: please read the scriptures in the KJV. And I pray that you will belive the words in the Bible over the word from the pulpit.

Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? As He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

Even the Pharisees understood Jesus called Himself God, because they repeated what He did, which is call Himself God! Then they responded by attempting to stone Him for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death), because they didn't believe Him.

Therefore, all your interpretations of the verses where you believe it means Jesus is not God must be wrong, because I've shown Jesus called Himself God, even before the resurrection like you want.