Verses we don't get

[HammerStone]

Luke 12:10-12
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
As Mark 3 and Matthew 12 collaborate (in this case we have three witnesses about this) you have to ask in order to be forgiven. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was conditional, this who don't ever ask for salvation are not saved. Repentance is ours only when we first acknowledge our Father and what his Savior did on the cross for us. Christ didn't die so that all will be saved, Christ died so that whomsoever will is to be saved.Luke 12 bridges Mark 3 and Matthew 12 in a final statement that this applies to the time when you're delivered up. Just as Christ instructs us in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, we're not to premeditate what we say. If you deny the Holy Spirit and therefore blasphem it by not allowing it to speak through you, buddy, you're in a world of trouble because you've denied our Father just as the antichrist will.That's not a position you want to be in and that is the unforgivable sin. Forgiveness will be asked for, but not received if this is committed, and the Bible has a threefold witness on this so we'd be clear on that.

 

[Christina]

(Denver;30649)
Luke 12:10-12As Mark 3 and Matthew 12 collaborate (in this case we have three witnesses about this) you have to ask in order to be forgiven. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was conditional, this who don't ever ask for salvation are not saved. Repentance is ours only when we first acknowledge our Father and what his Savior did on the cross for us. Christ didn't die so that all will be saved, Christ died so that whomsoever will is to be saved.Luke 12 bridges Mark 3 and Matthew 12 in a final statement that this applies to the time when you're delivered up. Just as Christ instructs us in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, we're not to premeditate what we say. If you deny the Holy Spirit and therefore blasphem it by not allowing it to speak through you, buddy, you're in a world of trouble because you've denied our Father just as the antichrist will.That's not a position you want to be in and that is the unforgivable sin. Forgiveness will be asked for, but not received if this is committed, and the Bible has a threefold witness on this so we'd be clear on that.
Thank you Denver for you clear explanation of what Ive been saying hopefully will put a rest to this once and for all

 

[SealedEternal]

(Denver;30649)
Luke 12:10-12As Mark 3 and Matthew 12 collaborate (in this case we have three witnesses about this) you have to ask in order to be forgiven. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was conditional, this who don't ever ask for salvation are not saved. Repentance is ours only when we first acknowledge our Father and what his Savior did on the cross for us. Christ didn't die so that all will be saved, Christ died so that whomsoever will is to be saved.Luke 12 bridges Mark 3 and Matthew 12 in a final statement that this applies to the time when you're delivered up. Just as Christ instructs us in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, we're not to premeditate what we say. If you deny the Holy Spirit and therefore blasphem it by not allowing it to speak through you, buddy, you're in a world of trouble because you've denied our Father just as the antichrist will.That's not a position you want to be in and that is the unforgivable sin. Forgiveness will be asked for, but not received if this is committed, and the Bible has a threefold witness on this so we'd be clear on that.
That verse has nothing to do with blasphemy. Jesus is telling us that there is a time of great tribulation coming where His people will be severly persecuted but not to fear because if His Spirit is in us He will give us God's Word to speak as a judgment against them. It has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation or blasphemy. You're completely reading that into the text when there is no reason to do so.Blasphemy against God's Spirit was told to the Pharisees to be the unpardonable sin that they were committing. They were not Christians, the tribulation had not come, and they never had God's Spirit in their hearts. These two passages therefore are totally unrelated and you can't link them together to build a doctrine. That's just faulty Bible Hermeneutics, and you could invent virtually any doctrine you'd want to if you misuse scripture in this way.The Pharisees were denying the power of God's Spirit which is what Jesus defined as blaspheming His Spirit. This is the one sin that cannot be forgiven, which is obvious to anyone who understands the Gospel because God says that salvation is by the washing of regeneration of our hearts through the work of His Spirit in us. If one is do deny His Spirit therefore like the Pharisees, then there is no way for all of your other sins to be forgiven. Conversely if your heart is circumcized by God's Spirit, then every other sin you have ever committed will be forgiven you. It's not a difficult concept.SealedEternal

 

[Faithful]

The Pharisees were denying the power of God's Spirit which is what Jesus defined as blaspheming His Spirit. This is the one sin that cannot be forgiven, which is obvious to anyone who understands the Gospel because God says that salvation is by the washing of regeneration of our hearts through the work of His Spirit in us. If one is do deny His Spirit therefore like the Pharisees, then there is no way for all of your other sins to be forgiven. Conversely if your heart is circumcized by God's Spirit, then every other sin you have ever committed will be forgiven you. It's not a difficult concept.SealedEternal
The Pharisee was actually accusing the Holy Spirit of being evil. Because they accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil.As it was the Holy Spirit of God that gave him the power, they were accusing the Holy Spirit of being unholy in power. Blasphemy.But we see Christ says that he casts out demons by the power of Gods Holy Spirit. And then proceeds to warn them of blasphemy not being forgiven if you say evil things against the Spirit.You need to know whether it is a Spirit of truth or error teaching you.So you can check by the word of God. For the Spirit never teaches anything contrary to truths defined by himself in scripture. Jesus actions were good so the things he did could only have been from God. Why would Satan want you to be healed or well? It is clear from day one that satan wants man to suffer by being seperated from God.Some people harden their hearts to Christ and the truth. But true worshippers as Christ taught are born of Spirit and Truth. Jesus clearly saying, " I am the way, the truth and the life, No one comes to the Father but by me." We see King David could by obeying the Law receive circumcision of the heart. Deuteronomy 30:6. But we see he believed in the Messiah and that God was his salvation. So David said," Restore unto me the Joy of thy salvation and take not thy Holy Spirit from me." Christ has entered into the Holy of Holies as the sacrifice for our sins which seperated us from God. He is the only way to come to the Father and receive the Spirit of Truth. He says, " My words are Spirit and they are life."So clearly in obeying Christ we are obeying God. Deut 18:15-21.Gods teaching through his Spirit be it in the bible or through the Son are all from God. The Spirit in us is God teaching us and enabling us to live lifes that rely not on the old way of obeying an outward law. But the new way of Gods Spirit living within us and the fruit which he gives us enabling us to live as God has called us and not the flesh.We can come to others with hell/fire and water. Or we can come to others in the love and truth of God through Jesus Christ. A gentle answer quietens anger. We are not here to show our knowledge of scripture. We are here to share the love and fellowship the knowledge of truth and the Spirit brings us in Christ. We want to love God and others and the word is a sure foundation in Christ. Lets go on in peace and love sharing the truth as those who have found the only way to love God and others. The living word made flesh, Jesus Christ. If he is your Lord then honour him by livng in love and peace.Faithful.

 

[SealedEternal]

(Faithful;30760)
We can come to others with hell/fire and water. Or we can come to others in the love and truth of God through Jesus Christ. A gentle answer quietens anger. We are not here to show our knowledge of scripture. We are here to share the love and fellowship the knowledge of truth and the Spirit brings us in Christ. We want to love God and others and the word is a sure foundation in Christ. Lets go on in peace and love sharing the truth as those who have found the only way to love God and others. The living word made flesh, Jesus Christ. If he is your Lord then honour him by livng in love and peace.
To some degree I agree, but at the same time only one position can be true and conversely the other is a lie. The idea that there can be many contradictory truths and that it is unimportant to scripturally battle it out and find God's truth is what has caused the confusion of today of hundreds of false religions all claiming to be Christianity. Jesus on the other hand said that the true ekklesia (church) are one body under Him, and His apostles and followers always dealt with disagreements immediately until they found the truth so that the unity of true believers would never be broken. Paul in fact harshly rebuked the Corinthian believers because they were starting to split into factions over doctrinal differences.Some here are using a logical fallacy and type of false attribution called contextomy in debate, where a passage is removed from its surrounding context and attempted to be applied to a completely different context where there is no correlation. They essentially claim that because Jesus said blasphemy against God's Spirit is the unpardonable sin, and He said in an entirely different context that His Spirit will tell us what to say when His children are arrested during the great tribulation, that blasphemy against His Spirit must be referring to not allowing His Spirit to speak through you in the great tribulation. This is obviously fallacious since the context of His blasphemy statement was to unregenerate Pharisees who were not in the great tribulation. They were accused of this sin because they were denying the power of God's Spirit in Jesus performing miracles, and attributing His work to Satan. Therefore blasphemy against God's Spirit must be the denial of the power of God's Spirit who is the one we are told throughout the Bible is the one who regenerates our wicked hearts and makes us children of God. This makes sense then in the context to explain why all other sin and blasphemy is forgivable since His Spirit is the one who sanctifies us from those things, but denying the Spirit would cut one off from being saved of these other sins.God's Spirit telling His children what to say when we are persecuted by ungodly followers of Satan during the tribulation has nothing to do with salvation or blasphemy and nothing in the context of either passage has even the slightest indication of a correlation. To therefore take two completely unrelated passages and attempt to unite them and create a new doctrine from them is faulty Bible Hermeneutics and one of the ways that false docrines are created, which in time create new factions and further divide what professes to be "Christianity" into hundreds of religions with contradictory doctrines, so that unbelievers assume that the Bible is undiscernable and open to anyones private "interpretation."I happen to think that Christianity is one faith under Him and that He has explained Himself clearly enough so that those who truly want the truth will find it.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

Your reasoning defies logic sealed if one accepts that the Holy spirit is different than just belief If one must have acceptance(belief) and repentance before the Holy spirit comes to one How can an unbeliever deny what is not offered them (the holy spirit)Steps one and two have to be completed before step 3 can be achived

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30777)
Your reasoning defies logic sealed if one accepts that the Holy spirit is different than just belief If one must have acceptance(belief) and repentance before the Holy spirit comes to one How can an unbeliever deny what is not offered them (the holy spirit)Steps one and two have to be completed before step 3 can be achived
Unbelievers deny God's Spirit all the time, which is why they remain unbelievers. It is His Spirit that comes into us and teaches us as well as renewing our hearts and sanctifying us to God so that we are no longer enslaved to our sin and may become children of God. God's Spirit would have saved the Pharisees from their enslavement to sin had they seen His works and believed, but they instead denied Him and attributed His works to Satan. Jesus came first to the Jews and preached His gospel of repentance and enterance into the New Covenant Kingdom of God. He performed His miracles and preached the Gospel to them, but most of them rejected Him and some even blasphemed His Spirit. They could have repented of their sin of blaspheming Christ in the flesh, but once they rejected His Spirit, there remained no other means of salvation for them. That is why this sin is unpardonable while every other is forgiven, because it is through the Spirit of God working in us that we are sanctified and saved from every other sin.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

Unbelievers deny Christ altoghther if we are forgiven all blashemes except that of the Holy spirit then the denial of the Holy spirit is something different. Something only offered to the true believer. An unbeliever is not offered the Holy spirit So therefore can not deny what is not offered them.The Holy spirit is Only offered to the believer that is what sets it apart Anyone can claim to believe in Christ but if one has not truly repented andhas changed their heart then then the Holy spirit is not in them /has not been offered them so therefore can not be denied. One can not deny what has not been offeredyour explanation is putting the Holy Spirit on the same level as belief Belief is only the first step and it alone does not bring the Holy spirit.

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30785)
Unbelievers deny Christ altoghther if we are forgiven all blashemes except that of the Holy spirit then the denial of the Holy spirit is something different. Something only offered to the true believer.
You're beginning with a false pretext because it was the Pharisees who were the ones Jesus said were committing this sin. Is it your claim that the Pharisees were born again children of God?
An unbeliever is not offered the Holy spirit So therefore can not deny what is not offered them.The Holy spirit is Only offered to the believer that is what sets it apart Anyone can claim to believe in Christ but if one has not truly repented andhas changed their heart then then the Holy spirit is not in them /has not been offered them so therefore can not be denied.
That's another false pretext. Only those who trust in Christ are able to receive Him, but He comes to unbelievers as well:Acts 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

(SealedEternal;30787)
You're beginning with a false pretext because it was the Pharisees who were the ones Jesus said were committing this sin. Is it your claim that the Pharisees were born again children of God?That's another false pretext. Only those who trust in Christ are able to receive Him, but He comes to unbelievers as well:Acts 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.SealedEternal
No you are under a false pretext this verse is not about the Phariseesand I grow tired of your false accusations that I am saying something I am not to avoid what I am saying THIS VERSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PHAISEES so your argument is groundlessI also never said that Christ doesnt come to unbelievers he obviously does again smoke and mirrors to avoid the question.I said first the Holy spirit must be offered to be denied God often comes to unbelievers to make them believers so that they will believe upon him repent from their sins and then receive the Holy Spirit.God does not just go around trying to instill the Holy spirit on non believers. So that it is deniend so that he can then accuse them of the unforgivable sin.God would never do such a thing it defeys Gods very nature

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30788)
No you are under a false pretext this verse is not about the Phariseesand I grow tired of your false accusations that I am saying something I am not to avoid what I am saying THIS VERSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PHAISEES so your argument is groundless
Matthew 12:24-32 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons ."And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. "Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[Squeak]

(kriss;30788)
God often comes to unbelievers to make them believers so that they will believe upon him repent from their sins and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Sorry Kriss, not jumping into the debate, I'm just curious how God comes to unbelievers to make them believers? I would think it is the Holy Spirit that stirs people somehow to make them believers. Just wondering how God goes about this if it isn't the Holy Spirit?

 

[Christina]

Again Sealed you use this to avoid the subject Jesus spoke the same thing in Mark 3 You are not rightly diving the Word the fact unbelievers were in his presence does not mean he was talking Just to them he was teaching US all as well as them To try to confine Jesus's teaching to just the few in his presence at the time virtully would make half of his teaching irrevant. Would you have us believe when he was just speaking to the Aspostles that it was only to them and not teaching to us all?

 

[Christina]

(Squeak;30793)
Sorry Kriss, not jumping into the debate, I'm just curious how God comes to unbelievers to make them believers? I would think it is the Holy Spirit that stirs people somehow to make them believers. Just wondering how God goes about this if it isn't the Holy Spirit?
God can do whatever he likes He can speak to one he can arrange circumstances to cause one to cry out , he caused Paul to go blindEven Christ himself did not receive the Holy spirit untill he was baptised by John and then the Holy spirit came on him in the form of a dove.God can call in many ways my point in this particular argument is that he didnt give his Holy spirit to the ones that were trying to kill Christso if he didnt offer it how could they deny it.

 

[Faithful]

Why?What can either hope to accomplish when the truth of God is to be shared gently in a manner of love?No man is sent by God to force feed his Children.1 John 2:27 (King James Version)27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.Do you think that those who drink milk can be force fed meat?Or do you think they drink milk because they don't want meat?The truth is a mighty weapon when it is the sword of the Spirit and man receiving his words from the Spirit as well as his understanding.How can you bring meat in any form to milk drinkers?The truth is every man will learn at his own pace. Whilst what we may say is true, we have no right to tell milk drinkers they are milk drinkers as if they were claiming to be meat eaters.Look at the fruit of the Spirit SealedEternal and Kriss and tell me which of these your posts amplifies most?Faithful.:naughty:

 

[Jordan]

(Faithful;30800)
Why?What can either hope to accomplish when the truth of God is to be shared gently in a manner of love?No man is sent by God to force feed his Children.1 John 2:27 (King James Version)27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.Do you think that those who drink milk can be force fed meat?Or do you think they drink milk because they don't want meat?The truth is a mighty weapon when it is the sword of the Spirit and man receiving his words from the Spirit as well as his understanding.How can you bring meat in any form to milk drinkers?The truth is every man will learn at his own pace. Whilst what we may say is true, we have no right to tell milk drinkers they are milk drinkers as if they were claiming to be meat eaters.Look at the fruit of the Spirit SealedEternal and Kriss and tell me which of these your posts amplifies most?Faithful.:naughty:
I have to agree with Faithful 100% on this one. What is love? Is it telling the Truth by force? or Is it telling the Truth by love? If by force, then there is no love in you, as the Pharisees did...remember they brainwashed the people into doubt and what they did they choose? They chose Barabbas, and crucified our Christ. God does not force people to be with Him. We should do the same by not forcing scriptures down unto people's throat. God is the only Judge here.I'm going to remind myself of this scripture.I Corinthians 14:38 - But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Christina]

If all followed your thinking the truth would never be taught to anyone we would all just let all beliefs go Satan would love thatNO truth just everyman spouting his own thoughts. This is not church its a study /teaching site we debate and discuss scripture if one thinks a false hood is being taught this is the place to debate it. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ and because of that I will debate a false teaching to at the very least show two sides of an argument so the reader can pray on it and know the answerLetting one stay in darkness does not show love I am not talking to a new student but one who thinks he has all knowledge the debate must be taylored to the persons in the debate

 

[Jordan]

(kriss;30808)
If all followed your thinking the truth would never be taught to anyone we would all just let all beliefs go Satan would love thatNO truth just everyman spouting his own thoughts. This is not church its a study /teaching site we debate and discuss scripture if one thinks a false hood is being taught this is the place to debate it. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ and because of that I will debate a false teaching to at the very least show two sides of an argument so the reader can pray on it and know the answerLetting one stay in darkness does not show love
I agree with you 100% too, it doesn't mean God force it on everyone. He gave us a free will. Did He not? Showing people the Truth by force also does not show love either. Am I right?JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Christina]

yes Jag agreed but if someone is still willingly participating in the debate that is not forced if it turns to just name calling or one decides to drop out then yes its time to end it but if two or more are still willing to discuss it than is not forced especially if it leads to one learning a truth exhausting yes but not forced and hopefully worth the effort put forth

 

[Job one]

I do not question that Christ through the power of the atonement took upon him the sins of all mankind.I think the big problem is the lack of understanding the conditions which allow the atonement to be effective individually. In other words the atonement in each individuals life is conditional on "faith in the Lord Jesus Christ" and secondly "repentance".