Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

[Grailhunter]

I have no need to use a Carnal Mind and collaborate with other men, to know where My Lord God Almighty IS and Why.

Matt 12:
[50] ...my Father which is in heaven...

John 14:
[20]...I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:
[23] Jesus ... said ...my Father ... we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Glory to God,
Taken

So again, You can't answer the question.

 

[Taken]

We must remember that the OT prophets wrote exactly what they received by revelation from God, no more, no less.

BINGO...and precisely, why it is important to stay in context OF their (OT) limited knowledge and often times very limited understanding.
Men learning after the Fact, then trying to
Posthumously pretend people were Called and Titled during their life-time can only be Verified, by the culprits.

That is the Mormon view of Mary's pregnancy - that the Father came down and had sex with her, resulting in the pregnancy.

Can say WHAT Mormon view is: but on this forum, a self-proclaimed catholic teacher had said: (not indicating a sex act), but that Mary's egg was fertilized with God, and that is HOW Jesus IS (according to him), a Human, with Mary's DNA..lol

The virgin birth was necessary for Jesus to be our sinless substitute for sin, because the seed of the earthly father bore the "sin line" that made ordinary people sinners.

That is True...but ALSO, Jesus came to FULFILL the Law...not only Mosaic Law...but man's Civil Law. The king OF the Jew HAD to BE a Jew, To lawfully sit in king Davids everlasting Throne.

Jesus had to Be out of Faithful servant Abraham's Stock line of Faithful Servants...
To king David...to Joseph, from the House of David...and Mary Joseph's Betrothed Virgin, also faithful...making the offspring of that Marriage...a son, lawfully Entitled to sit in king Davids Throne....
A preparation...
Legally Related to Faithful Abraham;
Entitled to Land Promised to Abraham AND his faithful descendants.
Legally Related to king David, through Joseph's, line out of the House of David.
Legally related to Mary, as a Birth mother.

The blood line was through Joseph, and that is why they had to go to Bethlehem for the Roman census, and also fulfil the prophecy that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem.

Typically...Gentile's account their bloodline through the Males...and Jews through the Females.
God accounts mankind...through Christ...(male or female...as All human blood is equally tainted/corrupt).
...But Also...Mary and Joseph were no Longer Betrothed...Joseph and his "Espoused wife"...traveled to Bethlehem as man and wife to be counted in the census of Joseph's household.
A Faithful Jewish Betrothed female and male would never Travel together or live together...
And immediately we Full well know Mary did not return to Her parents home...Mary and Joseph and the singular child Jesus, (not other children) fled to Egypt (a very long grueling trip there and back)...and remained there until Herod's Death.

The word "Christian" was actually a derogatory word given to believers who appeared to be "little Christs".

Not sure calling men Christ followers ( Christians) was meant by all as derogatory...but it certainly was a Name, established by non-believers about others who were FOLLOWING and Promoting Jesus' teachings.

The thing about prophecy is that there is no actual time limit to it.

Agree...
Gods time is infinite...and created things are temporary...waiting.

Most mainstream Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics view the church as those who have received Christ as Saviour and who are born again, and not the man-made denominational structures. Therefore the church is not the building or the denomination, but the people who fellowship in them. It is the RCC, LDS, and JWs who link their faith with their "only true church". So you will find that in the majority of Protestant denominations the essentials of the gospel of Christ are the same, and any differences are to do with history, culture, tradition, and styles of worship which are not prerequisites to genuine conversion to Christ.

Well said...and even with all the different Churches...the MEMBERS disagree on particular things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Paul Christensen]

No. That is the Mormon view of Mary's pregnancy - that the Father came down and had sex with her, resulting in the pregnancy. The Scripture says that the Holy Spirit "overshadowed" her.
I am not pressing the issue now. Point being...end result she was impregnated by someone other than Joseph.
Begot...is defined in the scriptures....conceived is defined in the scriptures....son is defined in the scriptures. No miraculous words used in the scriptures....no transporter to zap Him in. But I do not really care.

There is a lunatic theory that Jesus was conceived by someone prior to Joseph and he was Jesus' step father. Total twaddle, and makes a liar out of the angel who told her that the conception was a miracle done by the Holy
Spirit. Unless one accepts the virgin birth of Christ through a miracle of God then one has no foundation for salvation because it is an essential for believing the gospel. So if you don't believe what the angel said to Mary, then you can't believe that Jesus is God/man and therefore are still in your sins. It's not me who says that, it is clear in the Scriptures as one of the foundations of the gospel of Christ.

The bloodline was through Joseph,

You funny...Joseph was not His father....no prophecy about step-son, but if you do not care about prophecy, that is your
issue.

We know that Joseph was not His father, but everyone else believed that he was, except maybe Elizabeth. So as far as the couple were concerned, Joseph was of the line of David and therefore had to travel to Bethlehem for the census and therefore the prophecy about the Messiah being born in Bethlehem was fulfilled.

I just wonder how much of the Bible you have actually studied other than your favourite passages? I have my doubts from your responses.

The thing about prophecy is that there is no actual time limit to it.

You said a mouthful there, all of the Apostles in the NT thought they were living in the last days....their bad. That is an important point of understanding. How many other things did they get wrong? But the OT has rules regarding prophecies and what happened did not play out anything like the sequence told in prophecies.

The last days started with the day of Pentecost, and will continue until the end of the church age, which only God the Father knows when. The fact is that every successive generation of believers thought they are living in the last days which will end in their lifetime But there has to be certain events that were prophesied that have to happen, and before 1948, no one had any idea that the prophecy about the Jews returning to Israel was going to be fulfilled, and yet in 1948, Israel became a nation again for the first time since its destruction in AD70.

But I guess, doing a comprehensive study of Biblical prophecies and reading subsequent history to see how they were fulfilled is beyond many religious people who haven't got the inclination to study the Bible any deeper than those parts that agree with their personal doctrine.

Most mainstream Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics view the church as those who have received Christ as Saviour and who are born again, and not the man-made denominational structures.

Please show me a denomination that does not have a man's name as who founded it. The name of some of them are the name of the man that started it. You can tap dance on that all you want and historically we can look up the man's name that started the denomination...with Bible in hand...with no historical connection to the early Church. The are organizations that start up 1500 plus years after Christ.

You missed my point. The organisations are not the church. The true church is invisible, and the man-made structures are just the scaffolding to contain the true church. It doesn't matter whose name is on the front gate of the church, when there are no believers present, it is just an empty building - an empty, lifeless shell.

I have been associated with Anglican, Baptist, Pentecostal, Charismatic and Presbyterian churches, along with small groups meeting in hired halls and first story rooms above shops. In all these environments I have found Christian believers who share exactly the same essential gospel beliefs. It is the same when I worked for a paint company, and they packaged their paint in tins with different brand names on them, but exactly the same paint in them. So it is not the brand of church that one goes to, it is whether they hold to the essentials of the gospel of Christ.

The church bishop got together in the 4th Century and worked out what were the essentials of the gospel - because of the invasion of heresies - Arianism, Gnosticism, and others. They came up with the Nicene Creed which they believed contained the essentials of the gospel of Christ. Anyone who did not hold to the Nicene Creed was recognised as a heretic and not accepted as a genuinely converted believer. It is the same today. This is why JWs, LDS, and SDAs are not considered part of the mainstream of true Christian faith, but are pseudo-christian cults.

[qote]The word Christian does not appear in the Old Testament.
The word "Christian" was actually a derogatory word given to believers who appeared to be "little Christs".
This is an irrelevant statement. The point is that the whole scenario were pagans take the reins of the Church is that last thing prophesied in the OT.[/QUOTE]
Well, you said it about the word Christian, and I responded to it by telling you the origin of the word. But now, observance of the Nicene Creed is the evidence of a true converted believer in Christ, people outside of it may be never so religious and wear the "christian" badge, but they are not saved.

 

[Taken]

So again, You can't answer the question.

Again? LOL.
Scripture reveals a suitable answer, and was quoted to you.

If Scripture is not Acceptable to you...I'm passing that off as your dilemma, not mine.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Total twaddle...

Ever notice how quickly the glaring difference can be observed between one speaking from a Spiritual perspective and another with a Carnal perspective?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dcopymope]

Ever notice how quickly the glaring difference can be observed between one speaking from a Spiritual perspective and another with a Carnal perspective?

Glory to God,
Taken

Yep

Carnal Mind - Someone that can't see the forest for the tree's.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No. That is the Mormon view of Mary's pregnancy - that the Father came down and had sex with her, resulting in the pregnancy. The Scripture says that the Holy Spirit "overshadowed" her.

Can say WHAT Mormon view is

Actually not.
"Mormons" believe Mary was a virgin.

That is the Mormon view of Mary's pregnancy - that the Father came down and had sex with her, resulting in the pregnancy.

No! You and I just went over this thoroughly!

 

[Grailhunter]

Actually not.
"Mormons" believe Mary was a virgin.

No! You and I just went over this thoroughly!

Hey Jane Doe!!
lol Since we have no videos or schematics, and I believe Yeshua is the true Son of God, and bloodlines are apparently important. I just go with the biblical definitions of the words. conceive....begot...and Son. Which are more clear and consistent with the storyline than the mystical - metaphysical explanations. Besides that the scriptures do not use any mystical terms to describe the event

The mystical - Metaphysical conjectures sets the stage for.... she a virgin before she conceive, she was a virgin during her pregnancy, she was a virgin after delivering Yeshua, and she was a virgin the rest of her life, when the phrase "virgin Mary" does not appear in the scriptures.

The whole zap thing, there is no loss or sacrifice....God could zapped 2 million women and had a 2 million messiah army.
And if He lost any, no big deal, they are just zaps, He can make more.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hey Jane Doe!!
lol Since we have no videos or schematics, and I believe Yeshua is the true Son of God, and bloodlines are apparently important. I just go with the biblical definitions of the words. conceive....begot...and Son. Which are more clear and consistent with the storyline than the mystical - metaphysical explanations. Besides that the scriptures do not use any mystical terms to describe the event

Which kind of sets the stage for.... she a virgin before she conceive, she was a virgin during her pregnancy, she was a virgin after delivering Yeshua, and she was a virgin the rest of her life.

The whole zap thing, there is no loss or sacrifice....God could zapped 2 million women and had a 2 million messiah army.
And if He lost any, no big deal, they are just zaps, He can make more.

LDS Christian view:
Mary was virgin before her pregnancy, during the pregnancy, through Christ's birth, but not after her wedding with Joseph.

There doesn't have to be sex involved for Christ to be the literal Son of the Father. Heck, nowadays, even us lame humans can cause a child to be conceived without the mother having sex. God can do much more.

 

[Grailhunter]

LDS Christian view:
Mary was virgin before her pregnancy, during the pregnancy, through Christ's birth, but not after her wedding with Joseph.

There doesn't have to be sex involved for Christ to be the literal Son of the Father. Heck, nowadays, even us lame humans can cause a child to be conceived without the mother having sex. God can do much more.

I am ok with your belief. Like I said no videos....just going with the well established biblical terms.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I am ok with your belief. Like I said no videos....just going with the well established biblical terms.

I'm just clarify LDS Christian views here.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm just clarify LDS Christian views here.

And you did so well. Thanks. God Bless You.

 

[Taken]

I believe Yeshua is the true Son of God, and bloodlines are apparently important.

Humans have put the importance on Blood LINES.

God has put the importance on BLOOD...it is the LIFE of the BODY, and is ALL corrupt, and ALL Sentenced to DIE.

The mystical - Metaphysical conjectures sets the stage for.... she a virgin before she conceive, she was a virgin during her pregnancy,

Before her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.
During her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.

she was a virgin after delivering Yeshua, and she was a virgin the rest of her life,

Nothing whatsoever say that.

However Scripture does reveal she had 4 boys and at least 2 girls with her on 3 occasions, wanting to speak to Jesus...and those children were called Jesus' siblings.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Actually not.
"Mormons" believe Mary was a virgin.

No! You and I just went over this thoroughly!

I know. I was just giving him a tweak to see what might jump out at me!

 

[Grailhunter]

Humans have put the importance on Blood LINES.

God has put the importance on BLOOD...it is the LIFE of the BODY, and is ALL corrupt, and ALL Sentenced to DIE.



Before her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.
During her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.



Nothing whatsoever say that.

However Scripture does reveal she had 4 boys and at least 2 girls with her on 3 occasions, wanting to speak to Jesus...and those children were called Jesus' siblings.

I believe Yeshua is the true Son of God, and bloodlines are apparently important.
Humans have put the importance on Blood LINES
God has put the importance on BLOOD...it is the LIFE of the BODY, and is ALL corrupt, and ALL Sentenced to DIE.
I believe if you go ahead and read the OT you will see an emphasis on bloodlines and an emphasis on the bloodline and frequent references for lineage of the bloodline from David to Yeshua.

Before her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.
A lot of women were virgins before they had sex.

During her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.
This one you will have to give wording for....not just that Joseph did not have sex with here during her pregnancy but like "and she remained a virgin after Yeshua was conceived....or remained a virgin during her pregnancy."

However Scripture does reveal she had 4 boys and at least 2 girls with her on 3 occasions, wanting to speak to Jesus...and those children were called Jesus' siblings.
You are right. They are debating this here. All things being normal...Mary's Children.
The scriptures do not say anything about....
Joseph being a widower
Joseph being married before
Joseph having other children
Joseph having adopted children
Joseph having other wives.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I believe Yeshua is the true Son of God, and bloodlines are apparently important.
Humans have put the importance on Blood LINES
God has put the importance on BLOOD...it is the LIFE of the BODY, and is ALL corrupt, and ALL Sentenced to DIE.
I believe if you go ahead and read the OT you will see an emphasis on bloodlines and an emphasis on the bloodline and frequent references for lineage of the bloodline from David to Yeshua.

Before her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.
A lot of women were virgins before they had sex.

During her pregnancy, revealed a Virgin.
This one you will have to give wording for....not just that Joseph did not have sex with here during her pregnancy but like "and she remained a virgin after Yeshua was conceived....or remained a virgin during her pregnancy."

However Scripture does reveal she had 4 boys and at least 2 girls with her on 3 occasions, wanting to speak to Jesus...and those children were called Jesus' siblings.
You are right. They are debating this here. All things being normal...Mary's Children.
The scriptures do not say anything about....
Joseph being a widower
Joseph being married before
Joseph having other children
Joseph having adopted children
Joseph having other wives.

I had to have a chuckle about your comment about "a lot of women were virgins before they had sex". What about the ones who weren't? I thought all women and men were virgin before they had sex. However, just a very minor point in a post I thoroughly support!

 

[Grailhunter]

I had to have a chuckle about your comment about "a lot of women were virgins before they had sex". What about the ones who weren't? I thought all women and men were virgin before they had sex. However, just a very minor point in a post I thoroughly support!

lol When you get into the details of sex on a Christian forum...things go south pretty quick.
In adult study groups, when the topic turns to sex, I go get a cup of coffee and wait for someone to get whacked.
There is a general view, whether they will admit it or not....that sex is anti-holy, anti-religion, dirty, nasty, and evil. Which is one of the reason that they cannot get their heads around God having a Son. And the Catholic beliefs of the perpetual virginity of Mary....and the celibacy of Priests and Nuns....

 

[Paul Christensen]

lol When you get into the details of sex on a Christian forum...things go south pretty quick.
In adult study groups, when the topic turns to sex, I go get a cup of coffee and wait for someone to get whacked.
There is a general view, whether they will admit it or not....that sex is anti-holy, anti-religion, dirty, nasty, and evil. Which is one of the reason that they cannot get their heads around God having a Son. And the Catholic beliefs of the perpetual virginity of Mary....and the celibacy of Priests and Nuns....

It shows that God had a sense of humour when He designed sex!

Also, "sex" could very well be what a Dutch man carries his coal home in!

Concerning the Catholic view of it, I think there is a lot of guilt attached to it, because church history shows that fornication between priests and nuns, and adultery between priests and the wives of church-goers were common place, and most popes had illegitimate children. When Martin Luther visited Rome in the belief that going to the centre of the church would reassure him of the sanctity of the faith, and found homosexuality and prostitution rife, he became deeply disillusioned with the church and saw the corruption and rottenness at the hard core of it.

So, those who were involved in the homosexuality, fornication and adultery, would have felt dirty, because their consciences would have perceived the conflict between what was pure and clean in God's sight and what they were actually doing. There is the incident where the husband told his wife to be careful of a certain priest in town because he had a habit of making sexual advances to the married and single women and tricking vulnerable women into sexual encounters.

 

[Taken]

I believe if you go ahead and read the OT you will see an emphasis on bloodlines and an emphasis on the bloodline and frequent references for lineage of the bloodline from David to Yeshua.
[/QUOTTE]

Agree: Gods Emphasis is on Israel (people) and the 12 Tribes, from Abraham/NOT Abram.

Disagree Bloodline, moreso was ISRAEL/12 Tribes....Divided (set apart) from Gentiles.

This one you will have to give wording for....not just that Joseph did not have sex with here during her pregnancy but like "and she remained a virgin after Yeshua was conceived....or remained a virgin during her pregnancy."

Isa 7

1. [14] Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isa.62

1. [5] For as a young man marrieth a virgin, Band as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Matt 1:

1. [23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1

1. [27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
2. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Matt 1:

1. [25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

The scriptures do not say anything about....
Joseph being a widower
Joseph being married before
Joseph having other children
Joseph having adopted children
Joseph having other wives.

Agree.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This particular prophecy...whose wife was she? That word for virgin means young maiden.

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Again young maiden.
This is an old debate of biblical definitions. You are not going to get into a discussion of hymens in the Bible.

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
This one is interesting...as Mary defines her own condition.
But God and Mary could have spent days together and she still would not have "Known a man."