Virgin Mary is the Woman in Genesis 3:15
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
If your asking what comes next? Or what are we to do? I am multi-denominational, I attend many churches. What are we to do? Study the scriptures but analyze the character of Christ, what He said and what He did. Then do that over and above all else. Do what is right knowing that you are going to fail sometimes, but have confidence that with Christ as your guide, you will get better at doing right. We are not of the law, just being a good boy only serves your desire to go to heaven. While you here on earth you should be in the service of Christ. Love people like He loved and loves people. The son that takes up the profession of the Father, has a closer relationship to Him. Christianity is a simple religion, its the application that you have to practice.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
You are a radical psuedo-schismatic traditionalist Catholic and don't know what you are talking about.
Luke did not think so. . . I've talked to the higher court already. Read the first sentence.
You should be careful what you say a Catholic should be. And Luke had a very nice Rosary in his pocket!
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My Dad used to question if there was a God.. so he would say to me its better to believe just in case.. kind of like you going to every Church just in case? You shouldn't have a faith like that. B/c God knows it. Find the right Church.
These Marian apparitions only come from God.. she is doing it to lead you there.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
When the Israelites fell into idolatry, God punished them for it, like a parent discipling their children. .
History records a lot of horrible things Protestants did. It's a stupid nowhere discussion.
Wrong. Luther objected the actions of one or two sinful Catholics, and blamed it on doctrine. The Protestant Revolt is a red herring to the discussion.
History records a lot of horrible things Protestants did. It's a stupid nowhere discussion.
Not understanding is not the same as refusing to understand.
The Bible says the exact opposite; I gave dozens of Scriptures indicating her queenship, which you are blind to. All the things you listed you "do not believe" are inventions of Protestant modernist liberals and atheists of the mid 18th century, which sparked the Fundamentalist movement in the first place. Before that, all Protestant denominations accepted the early reformist teachings about Mary, which you reject. You object "the Vatican" but don't prove anything. Just typical airhead assertions.
You cannot deal with post # 173 so instead you come up with a bunch of post-enlightenment-era modernist crap.
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I know what hes saying praying to Mary is Idolatry? That's the case Jews make.. I call it devotion.
Whomever said this,
Wow man.. that's terrible. You shouldn't be believing in Jesus, either then. Nothing you have said suggest Jesus was anything other than an ordinary person.
Someone mentioned Luther?
He got caught red handed trying to change the bible to Faith alone. Even Jesus says you need to liveth (his direct words) and believth to never die and go straight to heaven. If its just faith you die and have to wait how long? But I don't know what happens when you mess with Bibles. Or lead half the Church away.. Or invent new ways to make it to heaven.
Whomever said this,
Wow man.. that's terrible. You shouldn't be believing in Jesus, either then. Nothing you have said suggest Jesus was anything other than an ordinary person.
Someone mentioned Luther?
He got caught red handed trying to change the bible to Faith alone. Even Jesus says you need to liveth (his direct words) and believth to never die and go straight to heaven. If its just faith you die and have to wait how long? But I don't know what happens when you mess with Bibles. Or lead half the Church away.. Or invent new ways to make it to heaven.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
When the Israelites fell into idolatry, God punished them for it, like a parent discipling their children.
That would be true, but they worshipped Asherah for most of their Old Testament history.
Protestants have a different approach to Christianity....they are not going recognize a lot of what happened with Miriam before or after the covers of the Bible. Fundamentalism is a methodology of defining religious beliefs. There is a lot of Catholic history that is incredibly wonderful...but history is like the 5 O' clock news, you do not get the good news a lot of the times. So history records a lot of the horrible things that the Catholic Church did.
History records a lot of horrible things Protestants did. It's a stupid nowhere discussion.
Protestants were not butchering men and women by the thousands.
Lutheranism and Protestantism was a rejection of Church corruption and opulence and an historical rejection of the notion that a Church of Christ could do the evil things it did. It was time for a reform and that was Luther's initial intent, it just got out of hand. Eventually the Catholic Church reformed itself and today is better than ever. Of course I am talking about the priests and the Catholics in the pews, I have no use for the Vatican, it has had it head up its tail from the get go.
Wrong. Luther objected the actions of one or two sinful Catholics, and blamed it on doctrine. The Protestant Revolt is a red herring to the discussion.
No you are wrong he was not looking to present charges on a couple people. Sometimes you need to look into what you are trying to discuss. Look the at Martin Luther’s 95 Theses that he nailed on the door of the castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany on October 31, 1517.
The Protestants do not have near the blood on their hands that the Catholic Church does, maybe because they never had the power to be tempted to do such evils.
History records a lot of horrible things Protestants did. It's a stupid nowhere discussion.
This is a topic you do not want to press me on…
In 1231 Pope Gregory the IX officially initiated the Inquisitions and the processes known as auto-da-fe.....torture! The Inquisition or Inquisitors, were a large body of clergy and monks that served in several countries. They were trained by the Church, they were funded by the Church, and under complete control of the Church. Just a few years later Pope Gregory offered the services of the Inquisitors to the witch hunters. In 1244 at the Council of Narbonne he ordered that in the sentencing of heretics, no husband should be spared because of his wife, nor wife because of her husband. Children were allowed to be tortured and killed as young as nine and a half years. Many times children were forced to watch their parent die. If one were to live through the torture they usually faced being burnt at the stake. The reasoning that the Church leaders had for this style of execution was that they weren’t killed from loss of blood (Even though they might have lost much blood during the torture that did not count.) The source of this idea came from the Gospel of John, 15:6 “If anyone does not abide not in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
By far the cruelest aspect of the inquisitional system was the means by which confessions were wrought; the torture chamber and the cruel devices therein. Most of the Inquisitors were the Dominican and Franciscan monks that Satan had preconditioned for this task. It is hard to say the human condition or mental state of these otherwise devout men of God. Satan had brainwashed them into thinking that misery, pain, and suffering was a path to salvation or that even misery and suffering was what Christ desired for His followers. So in their minds the hideous evil that they would commit was the will of God. In their minds they had saved the people they tortured and killed. Torture remained a legal option for interrogators from 1252 when it was sanctioned by Pope Innocent IV until 1917 when the Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect. Pope Innocent IV authorized indefinite delays to secure confessions, giving Inquisitors as much time as they wanted to torture the accused. Although the letter of law forbade repeating torture, Inquisitors easily avoided this rule by simply continuing torture, calling any interval a suspension. In 1262 Inquisitors and their assistants were granted the authority to quietly absolve each other from crime of bloodshed or loss of life. They simply explained that the tortured had died because the devil broke their necks.
The Inquisitors invented many forms of torture, the rack and the strappado were used to dislocate joints. Various devices were used to stretch the victims body and various types of presses were used to smash body parts, joints, and bones. In some instances presses were used to suffocate people. Various devices were used to excoriate the skin, in strips, patches, or chucks. Fillet knives, Pinchers, pliers, corkscrews, and scissors many times fresh from the coals were used extensively on the breasts and genitals. Other types of pinchers and scissors were used for pinching the flesh or the removal of body parts. Several apparatuses were designed for burning, branding, boiling, and roasting, body parts or whole individuals. One of the most well known of the torture devices was the “witch’s chair” a large metal chair covered in spikes that was heated by a fire beneath it. The victim was stripped and secured tightly in the chair by straps or bars that forced the points of the metal into their skin and then the seat of the chair was heated until it was red hot. At this point the victim would thrash around in agony ripping their skin from their body as they were cooked alive. Some chairs were made of wood in which case the seat would open to an open flame or hot instruments of torture.
All of the instruments of torture were blessed by a priest and many of the instruments of torture were inscribed with the motto “Glory be only to God.” The methods of torture were only limited to the imagination of the Inquisitors. For females the targets of the body were generally the breasts, buttocks, and genitals. Many were tortured and raped, their tongues were then cut out so that they could not scream to the crowd what evilness the Inquisitors had done to them. Then the reason given for removing their tongues was said to prevent them from blaspheming the name of the LORD or casting a spell.
In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII issued the Bull Summis Desideranter, authorizing two Dominican Inquisitors, Heinrich Kramer and Jakob Sprenger, to systemize the procedures for the interrogation of witches. Two years later in 1486, they produced a manual called the Malleus Maleficarum, which is Latin for The Hammer Of Witches. The Church financed and supervised the publishing of the manuals that were ordered and sent out to all Inquisitors. This manual was published with 14 editions between 1486 and 1520, and at least 16 other editions between 1574 and 1669. All editions were printed under the supervision and the authority of the Church and distributed by the Church to the Inquisitors.
All in all millions were tortured and murdered.
But still what does all this mean now? Denying history is just the way of the ignorant. As I said the Church today is fantastic. It is part of a system of forgiveness. So forgiven it is. They learnt from their mistakes and have a whole new attitude towards women.
But they did not get it right either. Protestantism immediately started fracturing and now we have something over 30,000 renditions of what the Bible means. So no one denomination is perfect, rather living in metaphorical glass houses.
The history of Miriam is very elegant and wonderful and most of all miraculous! Her shrines are a testament to all the good she is. Well documented and inspiring stories. I agree with all that, love her so much. But...always a but...You are not going to find her history in the Old Testament, your not going to find the story of her parents in the New Testament, and you are not going read how she became an intercessor for humanity in New Testament. So it is illogical for you to think they should understand.
The Bible says the exact opposite; I gave dozens of Scriptures indicating her queenship, which you are blind to. All the things you listed you "do not believe" are inventions of Protestant modernist liberals and atheists of the mid 18th century, which sparked the Fundamentalist movement in the first place. Before that, all Protestant denominations accepted the early reformist teachings about Mary, which you reject. You object "the Vatican" but don't prove anything. Just typical airhead assertions.
You are dead wrong. What you present is all wishful thinking.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I know what hes saying praying to Mary is Idolatry? That's the case Jews make.. I call it devotion.
Praying is different than worshiping. Most Catholics do not worship Miraim.
Whomever said this,
Now although I do believe and know how she became an intercessor for Mankind...and works effectively as an "agent" of God, I do not believe in the immaculate conception of Miriam, I do not believe she was a virgin after conceiving Christ, I do not believe she was a virgin after delivering the baby Yeshua, and I do not believe that she remained a virgin the rest of her life..
Wow man.. that's terrible. You shouldn't be believing in Jesus, either then. Nothing you have said suggest Jesus was anything other than an ordinary person.
Yeshua is a God…Miriam is not. Simple as that.
Someone mentioned Luther?
He got caught red handed trying to change the bible to Faith alone. Even Jesus says you need to liveth (his direct words) and believth to never die and go straight to heaven. If its just faith you die and have to wait how long? But I don't know what happens when you mess with Bibles. Or lead half the Church away.. Or invent new ways to make it to heaven.
Luther? At that time the Church was corrupt. No perfect solution. No perfect outcome. As far as the scriptures…what changes do you think you are noting?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I know but people will only listen to if its a sentence or more. So learn to be like Jesus and make it simple.
I have no idea who this Miriam is. If its your nick for Mary I'm just going to say ..that's between u and Jesus.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Again, an airhead assertion with no proof.
As we all know and as many of our well established textbooks have argued for decades, the Inquisition was one of the most frightening and bloody chapters in Western history, Pope Pius XII was anti-Semitic and rightfully called “Hitler’s Pope,” the Dark Ages were a stunting of the progress of knowledge to be redeemed only by the secular spirit of the Enlightenment, and the religious Crusades were an early example of the rapacious Western thirst for riches and power. But what if these long held beliefs were all wrong?
In this stunning, powerful, and ultimately persuasive book, Rodney Stark, one of the most highly regarded sociologists of religion and bestselling author of The Rise of Christianity (HarperSanFrancisco 1997) (WHO IS NOT EVEN CATHOLIC) argues that some of our most firmly held ideas about history, ideas that paint the Catholic Church in the least positive light are, in fact, fiction. Why have we held these wrongheaded ideas so strongly and for so long? And if our beliefs are wrong, what, in fact, is the truth?
In each chapter, Stark takes on a well-established anti-Catholic myth, gives a fascinating history of how each myth became the conventional wisdom, and presents a startling picture of the real truth. For example,
- Instead of the Spanish Inquisition being an anomaly of torture and murder of innocent people persecuted for “imaginary” crimes such as witchcraft and blasphemy, Stark argues that not only did the Spanish Inquisition spill very little blood, but it was a major force in support of moderation and justice.
- Instead of Pope Pius XII being apathetic or even helpful to the Nazi movement, such as to merit the title, “Hitler’s Pope,” Stark shows that the campaign to link Pope Pius XII to Hitler was initiated by the Soviet Union, presumably in hopes of neutralizing the Vatican in post-World War II affairs. Pope Pius XII was widely praised for his vigorous and devoted efforts to saving Jewish lives during the war.
- Instead of the Dark Ages being understood as a millennium of ignorance and backwardness inspired by the Catholic Church’s power, Stark argues that the whole notion of the “Dark Ages” was an act of pride perpetuated by anti-religious intellectuals who were determined to claim that theirs was the era of “Enlightenment.”
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01F57R0LO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
You are baiting me to post the entire Protestant Inquisition page, which I don't have to do. It's thoroughly documented featuring Protestant and secular historians while you regurgitate anti-Catholic polemics. People who want the truth are not afraid to read it like you are.
Protestant Inquisitions: “Reformation” Intolerance & Persecution
I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN OVERVIEW
II. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
III. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
IV. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Since you repeatedly ignore everything I post, arrogantly assert false histories with egotism, ideologies and unfair biased presentation of history, evade the topic you refuse to deal with red herrings, the best I can do is put you on ignore. Your version of the Inquisition is the same as the Seventh Day Adventists, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Ku Klux Klan. You are a waste of screen space. Good bye.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
lol Mary comes from the Latin Maria as the mother of Christ. The Church had issues with the name Miriam. Comes from Aaron's sister that chastised Moses for marrying a Pagan woman. God struck her with leprosy for a while. The Hebrew name means...bitterness or rebellion. Mary or Maria is a little better...sea of rebellion .... and a variant of that was placed in the scriptures, but not her actual name.
It is there for whoever wants to read it. No harm, no foul if you do not want to read it. Truth no matter how hard it is to face, still has its benefits. The alternative is to put your head in the sand. Like I said the wonderful things that the Catholic Church has done over the centuries, a lot of that gets lost in history. In a lot of ways the Marian apparitions show the heart of Christianity.
The topic is about Mary appearing and showing people where to the real Church is.
The topic is about the "Virgin Mary is the women in Genesis 3:15. And she is not.
On the other hand if you want to talk about Marian apparitions it is an awesome topic!
These topics are inspirational and awe inspiring.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
People are forever wanting to re-write history. It does not work.Again, an airhead assertion with no proof.
As we all know and as many of our well established textbooks have argued for decades, the Inquisition was one of the most frightening and bloody chapters in Western history, Pope Pius XII was anti-Semitic and rightfully called “Hitler’s Pope,” the Dark Ages were a stunting of the progress of knowledge to be redeemed only by the secular spirit of the Enlightenment, and the religious Crusades were an early example of the rapacious Western thirst for riches and power. But what if these long held beliefs were all wrong?
In this stunning, powerful, and ultimately persuasive book, Rodney Stark, one of the most highly regarded sociologists of religion and bestselling author of The Rise of Christianity (HarperSanFrancisco 1997) (WHO IS NOT EVEN CATHOLIC) argues that some of our most firmly held ideas about history, ideas that paint the Catholic Church in the least positive light are, in fact, fiction. Why have we held these wrongheaded ideas so strongly and for so long? And if our beliefs are wrong, what, in fact, is the truth?
In each chapter, Stark takes on a well-established anti-Catholic myth, gives a fascinating history of how each myth became the conventional wisdom, and presents a startling picture of the real truth. For example,
In the end, readers will not only have a more accurate history of the Catholic Church, they will come to understand why it became unfairly maligned for so long. Bearing False Witness is a compelling and sobering account of how egotism and ideology often work together to give us a false truth.
- Instead of the Spanish Inquisition being an anomaly of torture and murder of innocent people persecuted for “imaginary” crimes such as witchcraft and blasphemy, Stark argues that not only did the Spanish Inquisition spill very little blood, but it was a major force in support of moderation and justice.
- Instead of Pope Pius XII being apathetic or even helpful to the Nazi movement, such as to merit the title, “Hitler’s Pope,” Stark shows that the campaign to link Pope Pius XII to Hitler was initiated by the Soviet Union, presumably in hopes of neutralizing the Vatican in post-World War II affairs. Pope Pius XII was widely praised for his vigorous and devoted efforts to saving Jewish lives during the war.
- Instead of the Dark Ages being understood as a millennium of ignorance and backwardness inspired by the Catholic Church’s power, Stark argues that the whole notion of the “Dark Ages” was an act of pride perpetuated by anti-religious intellectuals who were determined to claim that theirs was the era of “Enlightenment.”
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01F57R0LO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
You are baiting me to post the entire Protestant Inquisition page, which I don't have to do. It's thoroughly documented featuring Protestant and secular historians while you regurgitate anti-Catholic polemics. People who want the truth are not afraid to read it like you are.
Protestant Inquisitions: “Reformation” Intolerance & Persecution
I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN OVERVIEW
II. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
III. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
IV. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Since you repeatedly ignore everything I post, arrogantly assert false histories with egotism, ideologies and unfair biased presentation of history, evade the topic you refuse to deal with red herrings, the best I can do is put you on ignore. Your version of the Inquisition is the same as the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses. You are a waste of screen space. Good bye.
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Mr grail,
Don't not tell me other names for Mary.. lalalala.
Jesus called her The Woman at the cross. Jesus said it not me, and you can't undo what Christ has done. She is the her seed...Church vs the Thy seed
Don't not tell me other names for Mary.. lalalala.
Jesus called her The Woman at the cross. Jesus said it not me, and you can't undo what Christ has done. She is the her seed...Church vs the Thy seed
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
lol It is biblical linguistics. A lot you can learn from looking at the texts in their native language. And it is a very deep topic.
Well you're are only doing that to mock her? I would be worried.. you a thy thing.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I don't know Mary by any other name and refuse to know her by any other name. . . Maria, yeah.. but not what you said.
The video should be prooof enuf..everyone wanted to see what its like. She had the most beautiful made of light cloud like dress I have ever seen! God's power must be unimaginable.
The video should be prooof enuf..everyone wanted to see what its like. She had the most beautiful made of light cloud like dress I have ever seen! God's power must be unimaginable.
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