Walking In Faith By the Word of God!

[Johann]

The operative principle if you have missed it is, Jesus is the final authority.
It appears to me you never heard the presentation and have just assumed an outcome.
....and are you desirous of solutions or are you desirous of being objectionable?

The operative principle is Christ Jesus, Him crucified, Him resurrected, and don't forget the 13 Pauline epistles-the final authority.

1Co_1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Co_2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Anything else you want to add-before you send me another cultic video clip @quietthinker?

 

[marks]

I answer your question, even with a one word answer. Why can't you move forward in fellowshipping in the word of God. The Bible is from Genesis to Revelation, not staying stuck on Roman 4: 1-5. Time to move on. I agree with the verses, but it's more to understand, that you don't seem to.

If you agree with my synopsis on that passage your doctrine is deeply conflicted.

You preach a salvation that you earn through your works making God your debtor, which is flatly denied in that passage, in no uncertain terms.

You do not wish to look at that apparently, it will be to your own hurt.

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

If you agree with my synopsis on that passage your doctrine is deeply conflicted.

You preach a salvation that you earn through your works making God your debtor, which is flatly denied in that passage, in no uncertain terms.

You do not wish to look at that apparently, it will be to your own hurt.

Much love!

Well according to Paul in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

So, if you think that you do not have to do these Commandment to get in the Kingdom of God, then see what happens to you, if you start doing the opposite. And theres more to work on self, the fruits of the spirit as well.

 

[bro.tan]

Somone only fears what is true when they themself consist of a lie. Our Father has nothing to do with fear.

Let's see what happen to those who refuse the word of God and to keep his Commandments like Jesus says in (Matthew 19:16-19) but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

 

[bro.tan]

You MUST work to GET salvation?

Explain this one for me, since this is NOT what Scripture is saying.
Johann.

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20). This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12).


If you truly love God, then you will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must repent, give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Also you must work of the fruit of the Spirits. "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

 

[marks]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word

Yes it does, and it also says that salvation is by grace through faith, and NOT of works, so what are we to make of that?

We must do good works, and we are saved by grace through faith? There IS an answer, that doesn't deny the meaning of either passage.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

The operative principle is Christ Jesus, Him crucified, Him resurrected, and don't forget the 13 Pauline epistles-the final authority.

1Co_1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Co_2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Anything else you want to add-before you send me another cultic video clip @quietthinker?

Your response confirms to me that you didn't watch the presentation. If you had and you disagree, you would address that which you found objectionable. Instead, you choose to cast a poor light on it by labelling it with an unjustified pejorative. hmmmm

 

[Zachariah]

Let's see what happen to those who refuse the word of God and to keep his Commandments like Jesus says in (Matthew 19:16-19) but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

To work out your own salvation with fear and trembling means that we have to come to terms with our shadow self. Once we have done that the Holy Spirit comes down and gifts us eternal life. Heaven consists of no fear. It is only the lies and ego that cast a big shadow within the psyche that will haved to be dealt with before anyone is to experience salvation.

Sorry to break it to everyone but salvation takes inner work. Its a hard destructive proccess that not many people are willing to go through.

Reading a prayer will not give you salvation. This is a lie and takes easy to those who live in fear and lack in courage to work on themselves.

 

[Johann]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20). This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12).


If you truly love God, then you will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must repent, give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Also you must work of the fruit of the Spirits. "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

You said: "We MUST work to GET salvation--this is backwards-

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.


For we are His masterpiece, having been created in Moshiach Yehoshua for ma'asim tovim, which Hashem prepared beforehand, that the derech of our halakhah should be in them.[YESHAYAH 29:23; 42:7; 60:21;]

Are you in any ministerial work/outreach to the poor and disenfranchised?
You see, for me, going to a Church, listening to a sermon, shake hands with the pastor after-going home, kick off your shoes, and switch on the TV-is NOT a ekklesia.
So what is your vocation?

 

[Johann]

Your response confirms to me that you didn't watch the presentation. If you had and you disagree, you would address that which you found objectionable. Instead, you choose to cast a poor light on it by labelling it with an unjustified pejorative. hmmmm

You speak with a forked-tongue.

Share
Tweet
Share
Pin

False Gospel + Fake Jesus = Brian Zahnd
Series : Past Livestreams & Misc. Topical Teachings |Duration : 1:12:04
Listen Online
Download
Lesson Overview
I recently read Brian Zahnd’s book “Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God” and discovered one of the most blasphemous works I’ve ever read. This video is an analysis of some key issues relating to the false gospel and fake Jesus of Brian Zahnd. Please do not be dulled by his use of poetry or shamed by his constant misrepresentation of biblical Christianity. Brian Zahnd is a rhetorician and poet more than a theologian or pastor but I’m going to try and bring clarity to exactly where his gospel goes wrong and why his Jesus is really just a mirror image of Brian Zahnd rather than the true Jesus.

John wrote, "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10). The doctrine of the atonement is a beautiful word of God that brings forth praise in the heart of every Christian who looks upon the cross and sees the love of the Father displayed in His Son Jesus Christ who laid down His own life and shed His blood for our sins.

Brian Zahnd doesn't think so. He's quite sour over it, preaching that it makes God out to be a monster. Consider the implications of that -- If the doctrine of the atonement is biblical, Zahnd says God is a monster. How can Zahnd worship God if he thinks Him monstrous? Is he willing to hinge his own salvation on this issue?

Now, I've only read the first chapter since that's what his publisher has made available online ahead of the book's release. Lest anyone think I'm being unfair limiting my judgment to one chapter, the chapters in the table of contents happen to be titles of articles Zahnd has written on his blog: Jesus Is What God Has to Say, Who Killed Jesus?, Closing the Book on Vengeance, etc. I doubt the rest of the book says anything I haven't read or heard him say somewhere else.

From Jonathan Edwards to George MacDonald

Apparently Zahnd used to be quite the fundamentalist and his inspiration was Jonathan Edwards. He even made his own handwritten copy of Edwards' sermon Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God. That's dedication. But then turning to criticize the sermon, Zahnd is on his way to calling God a sadistic juvenile by page three, and a merciless torturer and keeper of an eternal Auschwitz by page five.

Now a far cry from Edwards, Zahnd's opinions on divine punishment are heavily influenced by the late George MacDonald, of whom Zahnd gives glowing praise. MacDonald likewise hated the doctrine of the atonement and taught that Jesus atoned for sins simply by defeating evil (known as the Christus Victor theory). He also believed that hell was not a place God sends people to, but a fire he uses to purify the heart of a hardened sinner just as a doctor uses fire to cauterize an infectious wound.

Zahnd quotes MacDonald's repudiation of Edwards believing that the Puritan's teaching was not Christ-like: "From all copies of Jonathan Edwards' portrait of God, however faded by time, however softened by the use of less glaring pigments, I turn with loathing. Not such a God is he concerning whom was the message John heard from Jesus, that he is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

According to Zahnd, God can't be a God who destroys sinners because that's too dark and God is light. He craftily pieces together fragments from Jeremiah, Paul, John, David, Hosea, Solomon, Job, and Hebrews. He insists, "The Old Testament is a journey of discovery," and "The Old Testament gives us many (and often contradictory) options." In between he says, "The Bible itself is on the quest to discover the Word of God."

Ah, and there's the fault in Zahnd's doctrine. The Bible is not on a quest to discover the word of God -- the Bible is the word of God. All Scripture is breathed out by God (2 Timothy 3:16). The God on the right side of the book is the same God as the one on the left side of the book. Jesus Christ is the God of Leviticus. He is the God who delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt and destroyed those in the wilderness who did not believe (Jude 1:5). He was not idly standing by while He watched His angry dad reign down fire on Sodom and Gomorrah but was active in that judgment (Genesis 19:24).

Is this being "pejorative?" @quietthinker?
I have some problems when the substitutionary atonement of Jesus and the wrath of God is being "denied" yes?

I was reminded of this yet again while reading Brian Zahnd’s Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God (see a detailed review of the book by Derek Rishmawy here). Throughout the book, as Zahnd made his case for rejecting the idea of God’s wrath and retribution against sin, I kept making notes of where the Bible contradicted his theological assertions and interpretations of Scripture, until it became clear that pointing out missed verses and hermeneutical missteps would make no difference. He had rejected the Bible as the “final authority,” saying that giving it that kind of authority would be “an act of idolatry”:

If we want to make the Bible our final authority, which is an act of idolatry, we are conveniently ignoring the problem that we can make the Bible say just about whatever we want.

Clearly, Zahnd was measuring his theology by a completely different standard than I was, making it impossible for either of us to correct the other. But what standard? In the very last chapter, I got my answer:

But it wasn’t primarily reading theologians like Hans Urs von Balthasar, Henri Nouwen, and Stanley Hauerwas that led me away from an angry-God theology; it was mostly mystical experiences in prayer. As I learned to directly experience the presence of God in contemplative prayer—or sitting with Jesus, as I describe it—I have come to know God as love and light. I have seen the face of God in Jesus....

John, who lived so much longer than all the other apostles and seems to have climbed higher than them all, says, “This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.” There was a time when I thought the darkness of anger, violence, and retribution cast a sinister shadow upon the face of God, but having learned to sit with Jesus in contemplative prayer, I have discovered by my own experience that what John said is true: God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. God is the eternal light of self-giving love. There is no darkness. No anger. No violence. No retribution. Only love.



Unfortunately, it’s much easier to make your contemplative vision say whatever you want than it is to make the objective and public words of the Bible say whatever you want. And this is exactly what Zahnd does. He begins not with the Bible, but with what he calls the “living Christ,” who is not the Jesus depicted in the Bible (for Zahnd ignores or rejects even some of Jesus’ words in the New Testament), but rather his idea of Jesus, which he developed by “directly experience[ing] the presence of God in contemplative prayer.”

--but your "way out" is-NO! I don't endorse his teachings!
Later
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Your response confirms to me that you didn't watch the presentation. If you had and you disagree, you would address that which you found objectionable. Instead, you choose to cast a poor light on it by labelling it with an unjustified pejorative. hmmmm

--which mean you "endorse" his teachings.
Johann.

 

[quietthinker]

You speak with a forked-tongue.

Share
Tweet
Share
Pin

False Gospel + Fake Jesus = Brian Zahnd
Series : Past Livestreams & Misc. Topical Teachings |Duration : 1:12:04
Listen Online
Download
Lesson Overview
I recently read Brian Zahnd’s book “Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God” and discovered one of the most blasphemous works I’ve ever read. This video is an analysis of some key issues relating to the false gospel and fake Jesus of Brian Zahnd. Please do not be dulled by his use of poetry or shamed by his constant misrepresentation of biblical Christianity. Brian Zahnd is a rhetorician and poet more than a theologian or pastor but I’m going to try and bring clarity to exactly where his gospel goes wrong and why his Jesus is really just a mirror image of Brian Zahnd rather than the true Jesus.

John wrote, "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10). The doctrine of the atonement is a beautiful word of God that brings forth praise in the heart of every Christian who looks upon the cross and sees the love of the Father displayed in His Son Jesus Christ who laid down His own life and shed His blood for our sins.

Brian Zahnd doesn't think so. He's quite sour over it, preaching that it makes God out to be a monster. Consider the implications of that -- If the doctrine of the atonement is biblical, Zahnd says God is a monster. How can Zahnd worship God if he thinks Him monstrous? Is he willing to hinge his own salvation on this issue?

Now, I've only read the first chapter since that's what his publisher has made available online ahead of the book's release. Lest anyone think I'm being unfair limiting my judgment to one chapter, the chapters in the table of contents happen to be titles of articles Zahnd has written on his blog: Jesus Is What God Has to Say, Who Killed Jesus?, Closing the Book on Vengeance, etc. I doubt the rest of the book says anything I haven't read or heard him say somewhere else.

From Jonathan Edwards to George MacDonald

Apparently Zahnd used to be quite the fundamentalist and his inspiration was Jonathan Edwards. He even made his own handwritten copy of Edwards' sermon Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God. That's dedication. But then turning to criticize the sermon, Zahnd is on his way to calling God a sadistic juvenile by page three, and a merciless torturer and keeper of an eternal Auschwitz by page five.

Now a far cry from Edwards, Zahnd's opinions on divine punishment are heavily influenced by the late George MacDonald, of whom Zahnd gives glowing praise. MacDonald likewise hated the doctrine of the atonement and taught that Jesus atoned for sins simply by defeating evil (known as the Christus Victor theory). He also believed that hell was not a place God sends people to, but a fire he uses to purify the heart of a hardened sinner just as a doctor uses fire to cauterize an infectious wound.

Zahnd quotes MacDonald's repudiation of Edwards believing that the Puritan's teaching was not Christ-like: "From all copies of Jonathan Edwards' portrait of God, however faded by time, however softened by the use of less glaring pigments, I turn with loathing. Not such a God is he concerning whom was the message John heard from Jesus, that he is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

According to Zahnd, God can't be a God who destroys sinners because that's too dark and God is light. He craftily pieces together fragments from Jeremiah, Paul, John, David, Hosea, Solomon, Job, and Hebrews. He insists, "The Old Testament is a journey of discovery," and "The Old Testament gives us many (and often contradictory) options." In between he says, "The Bible itself is on the quest to discover the Word of God."

Ah, and there's the fault in Zahnd's doctrine. The Bible is not on a quest to discover the word of God -- the Bible is the word of God. All Scripture is breathed out by God (2 Timothy 3:16). The God on the right side of the book is the same God as the one on the left side of the book. Jesus Christ is the God of Leviticus. He is the God who delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt and destroyed those in the wilderness who did not believe (Jude 1:5). He was not idly standing by while He watched His angry dad reign down fire on Sodom and Gomorrah but was active in that judgment (Genesis 19:24).

Is this being "pejorative?" @quietthinker?
I have some problems when the substitutionary atonement of Jesus and the wrath of God is being "denied" yes?

I was reminded of this yet again while reading Brian Zahnd’s Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God (see a detailed review of the book by Derek Rishmawy here). Throughout the book, as Zahnd made his case for rejecting the idea of God’s wrath and retribution against sin, I kept making notes of where the Bible contradicted his theological assertions and interpretations of Scripture, until it became clear that pointing out missed verses and hermeneutical missteps would make no difference. He had rejected the Bible as the “final authority,” saying that giving it that kind of authority would be “an act of idolatry”:

If we want to make the Bible our final authority, which is an act of idolatry, we are conveniently ignoring the problem that we can make the Bible say just about whatever we want.

Clearly, Zahnd was measuring his theology by a completely different standard than I was, making it impossible for either of us to correct the other. But what standard? In the very last chapter, I got my answer:

But it wasn’t primarily reading theologians like Hans Urs von Balthasar, Henri Nouwen, and Stanley Hauerwas that led me away from an angry-God theology; it was mostly mystical experiences in prayer. As I learned to directly experience the presence of God in contemplative prayer—or sitting with Jesus, as I describe it—I have come to know God as love and light. I have seen the face of God in Jesus....

John, who lived so much longer than all the other apostles and seems to have climbed higher than them all, says, “This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.” There was a time when I thought the darkness of anger, violence, and retribution cast a sinister shadow upon the face of God, but having learned to sit with Jesus in contemplative prayer, I have discovered by my own experience that what John said is true: God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. God is the eternal light of self-giving love. There is no darkness. No anger. No violence. No retribution. Only love.



Unfortunately, it’s much easier to make your contemplative vision say whatever you want than it is to make the objective and public words of the Bible say whatever you want. And this is exactly what Zahnd does. He begins not with the Bible, but with what he calls the “living Christ,” who is not the Jesus depicted in the Bible (for Zahnd ignores or rejects even some of Jesus’ words in the New Testament), but rather his idea of Jesus, which he developed by “directly experience[ing] the presence of God in contemplative prayer.”

--but your "way out" is-NO! I don't endorse his teachings!
Later
Johann.

Unpersuasive Johann. Did Jesus ever talk of those who were opposed to him in this manner? Therein is the litmus test of the spirit which one operates by.

 

[Johann]

Unpersuasive Johann. Did Jesus ever talk of those who were opposed to him in this manner? Therein is the litmus test of the spirit which one operates by.

Guess you have never read the Pauline epistles, now did you @quietthinker?

The very wrath of God is presently abiding on any and everyone who is opposed to Jesus, yes?


Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Eph_5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Col_3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

-If you endorse Brian's teachings, you would disagree with these Scriptures, no?

Just an afterthought-when Jesus traversed the earth, sinners were very "comfortable" with Jesus-AFTER the resurrection-are sinners still comfortable, or are they hiding?

Later
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Are you stumped @quietthinker?

 

[quietthinker]

Guess you have never read the Pauline epistles, now did you @quietthinker?

The very wrath of God is presently abiding on any and everyone who is opposed to Jesus, yes?


Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Eph_5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Col_3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

-If you endorse Brian's teachings, you would disagree with these Scriptures, no?

Just an afterthought-when Jesus traversed the earth, sinners were very "comfortable" with Jesus-AFTER the resurrection-are sinners still comfortable, or are they hiding?

Later
Johann.

Johann, who are you a witness of/ to? an angry wrathful God. Do you threaten your unbelieving neighbours with hell fire and brimstone under the guise of being God's witness? Is that the 'good news' you purvey?.....cuz it sure sounds like it. Even a brother who attempts to present Jesus (the witness of God) you run into the ground. What is it with you?

 

[Johann]

Johann, who are you a witness of/ to? an angry wrathful God. Do you threaten your unbelieving neighbours with hell fire and brimstone under the guise of being God's witness? Is that the 'good news' you purvey?.....cuz it sure sounds like it. Even a brother who attempts to present Jesus (the witness of God) you run into the ground. What is it with you?

So you disagree, not with me, but the Scriptures?
So, if I understand you correctly, you conveniently "skip" the wrath and Hell of a holy YHVH, and stay with the 4 gospel accounts?
Or is this a wrong "assumption" on my part?

2Ti 2:14 These things remind them of, testifying fully before the Lord—not to strive about words to nothing profitable, but to the subversion of those hearing;
2Ti 2:15 be diligent to present thyself approved to God—a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;

--or are we "selective" in the studying of Scripture-

What is your gospel to a lost and dying world-"God is all love" and that's it?

Waiting-this is getting interesting.
Johann.

 

[Episkopos]

So you disagree, not with me, but the Scriptures?
So, if I understand you correctly, you conveniently "skip" the wrath and Hell of a holy YHVH, and stay with the 4 gospel accounts?
Or is this a wrong "assumption" on my part?

2Ti 2:14 These things remind them of, testifying fully before the Lord—not to strive about words to nothing profitable, but to the subversion of those hearing;
2Ti 2:15 be diligent to present thyself approved to God—a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;

--or are we "selective" in the studying of Scripture-

What is your gospel to a lost and dying world-"God is all love" and that's it?

Waiting-this is getting interesting.
Johann.

Is your "For God so hated the world" any better?

 

[Johann]

Is your "For God so hated the world" any better?

Non sequitur @Episkopos.

 

[Episkopos]

You speak with a forked-tongue.

Share
Tweet
Share
Pin

False Gospel + Fake Jesus = Brian Zahnd
Series : Past Livestreams & Misc. Topical Teachings |Duration : 1:12:04
Listen Online
Download
Lesson Overview
I recently read Brian Zahnd’s book “Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God” and discovered one of the most blasphemous works I’ve ever read. This video is an analysis of some key issues relating to the false gospel and fake Jesus of Brian Zahnd. Please do not be dulled by his use of poetry or shamed by his constant misrepresentation of biblical Christianity. Brian Zahnd is a rhetorician and poet more than a theologian or pastor but I’m going to try and bring clarity to exactly where his gospel goes wrong and why his Jesus is really just a mirror image of Brian Zahnd rather than the true Jesus.

John wrote, "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10). The doctrine of the atonement is a beautiful word of God that brings forth praise in the heart of every Christian who looks upon the cross and sees the love of the Father displayed in His Son Jesus Christ who laid down His own life and shed His blood for our sins.

Brian Zahnd doesn't think so. He's quite sour over it, preaching that it makes God out to be a monster. Consider the implications of that -- If the doctrine of the atonement is biblical, Zahnd says God is a monster. How can Zahnd worship God if he thinks Him monstrous? Is he willing to hinge his own salvation on this issue?

Now, I've only read the first chapter since that's what his publisher has made available online ahead of the book's release. Lest anyone think I'm being unfair limiting my judgment to one chapter, the chapters in the table of contents happen to be titles of articles Zahnd has written on his blog: Jesus Is What God Has to Say, Who Killed Jesus?, Closing the Book on Vengeance, etc. I doubt the rest of the book says anything I haven't read or heard him say somewhere else.

From Jonathan Edwards to George MacDonald

Apparently Zahnd used to be quite the fundamentalist and his inspiration was Jonathan Edwards. He even made his own handwritten copy of Edwards' sermon Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God. That's dedication. But then turning to criticize the sermon, Zahnd is on his way to calling God a sadistic juvenile by page three, and a merciless torturer and keeper of an eternal Auschwitz by page five.

Now a far cry from Edwards, Zahnd's opinions on divine punishment are heavily influenced by the late George MacDonald, of whom Zahnd gives glowing praise. MacDonald likewise hated the doctrine of the atonement and taught that Jesus atoned for sins simply by defeating evil (known as the Christus Victor theory). He also believed that hell was not a place God sends people to, but a fire he uses to purify the heart of a hardened sinner just as a doctor uses fire to cauterize an infectious wound.

Zahnd quotes MacDonald's repudiation of Edwards believing that the Puritan's teaching was not Christ-like: "From all copies of Jonathan Edwards' portrait of God, however faded by time, however softened by the use of less glaring pigments, I turn with loathing. Not such a God is he concerning whom was the message John heard from Jesus, that he is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

According to Zahnd, God can't be a God who destroys sinners because that's too dark and God is light. He craftily pieces together fragments from Jeremiah, Paul, John, David, Hosea, Solomon, Job, and Hebrews. He insists, "The Old Testament is a journey of discovery," and "The Old Testament gives us many (and often contradictory) options." In between he says, "The Bible itself is on the quest to discover the Word of God."

Ah, and there's the fault in Zahnd's doctrine. The Bible is not on a quest to discover the word of God -- the Bible is the word of God. All Scripture is breathed out by God (2 Timothy 3:16). The God on the right side of the book is the same God as the one on the left side of the book. Jesus Christ is the God of Leviticus. He is the God who delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt and destroyed those in the wilderness who did not believe (Jude 1:5). He was not idly standing by while He watched His angry dad reign down fire on Sodom and Gomorrah but was active in that judgment (Genesis 19:24).

Is this being "pejorative?" @quietthinker?
I have some problems when the substitutionary atonement of Jesus and the wrath of God is being "denied" yes?

I was reminded of this yet again while reading Brian Zahnd’s Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God (see a detailed review of the book by Derek Rishmawy here). Throughout the book, as Zahnd made his case for rejecting the idea of God’s wrath and retribution against sin, I kept making notes of where the Bible contradicted his theological assertions and interpretations of Scripture, until it became clear that pointing out missed verses and hermeneutical missteps would make no difference. He had rejected the Bible as the “final authority,” saying that giving it that kind of authority would be “an act of idolatry”:

If we want to make the Bible our final authority, which is an act of idolatry, we are conveniently ignoring the problem that we can make the Bible say just about whatever we want.

Clearly, Zahnd was measuring his theology by a completely different standard than I was, making it impossible for either of us to correct the other. But what standard? In the very last chapter, I got my answer:

But it wasn’t primarily reading theologians like Hans Urs von Balthasar, Henri Nouwen, and Stanley Hauerwas that led me away from an angry-God theology; it was mostly mystical experiences in prayer. As I learned to directly experience the presence of God in contemplative prayer—or sitting with Jesus, as I describe it—I have come to know God as love and light. I have seen the face of God in Jesus....

John, who lived so much longer than all the other apostles and seems to have climbed higher than them all, says, “This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.” There was a time when I thought the darkness of anger, violence, and retribution cast a sinister shadow upon the face of God, but having learned to sit with Jesus in contemplative prayer, I have discovered by my own experience that what John said is true: God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. God is the eternal light of self-giving love. There is no darkness. No anger. No violence. No retribution. Only love.



Unfortunately, it’s much easier to make your contemplative vision say whatever you want than it is to make the objective and public words of the Bible say whatever you want. And this is exactly what Zahnd does. He begins not with the Bible, but with what he calls the “living Christ,” who is not the Jesus depicted in the Bible (for Zahnd ignores or rejects even some of Jesus’ words in the New Testament), but rather his idea of Jesus, which he developed by “directly experience[ing] the presence of God in contemplative prayer.”

--but your "way out" is-NO! I don't endorse his teachings!
Later
Johann.

We know with all the silly rhetoric of condemning a person in an entirety...like...you have a fake Jesus or false gospel....that usually this means a person is going too far in the other direction.

What people generally lack is a proper balance.


Zahnd is right about God's mercy, but wrong in his view about God's judgment and the value of the bible-especially the OT.

Winger is correct in his critique of Zahnd's reading of the OT, but is unable to see beyond what a smug dogmatic view of God's mercy can tolerate.

 

[Zachariah]

We know with all the silly rhetoric of condemning a person in an entirety...like...you have a fake Jesus or false gospel....that usually this means a person is going too far in the other direction.

What people generally lack is a proper balance.


Zahnd is right about God's mercy, but wrong in his view about God's judgment and the value of the bible-especially the OT.

Winger is correct in his critique of Zahnd's reading of the OT, but is unable to see beyond what a smug dogmatic view of God's mercy can tolerate.

Agreed. Both body and spirit must be present and in balanced for true intelligence and wisdom.