Walking The Line In Heaven

[Webers_Home]

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Getting into heaven is only half the battle; and actually the easy part. The
real challenge is staying. Naturally people would be on their best behavior at
first; but what's to keep them that way? and what's to prevent them from
being evicted? because if the wages of sin on earth is death (Rom 6:23) then
the wages of sin in heaven can't be any different.

†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?
Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

When I was a young man; thoughts like Jer 13:23 often crossed my mind;
even before I read the Bible one time for myself. I figured: okay, if today I
reform and become a God-fearing man, and will-powered myself into
keeping all the commandments; and somehow managed to make it to
heaven; I seriously doubt I could keep it up for eternity-- maybe for the rest
of my life; but certainly not forever. It would only be a matter of time before
I fell off the wagon and showed my true colors. No; one look at the Lord's
beatitudes as per Mtt 5:3-10 and I knew I was toast because the Bible's God
isn't interested in one's behavior nearly as much as He's interested in one's
personality.

Can the Ethiopian change the color of his skin or the leopard remove his
spots? The answer of course is no. So then what's to become of rank and file
pew warmers when it finally comes to the point where their personality
forces God to evict them?

Cliff
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[Templar81]

Sin cannot enter Heaven. Soanyone who might sin in Heaven wouldn't get in thee in the first palce.

I want to make myself very clear on this ONCE YOUA RE IN HEAVEN YOU CANNOT BE KICKED OUT, YOU ARE THERE FORVER.

The same applies to Hell. Once you are there you will NEVER leave.

 

[Hollyrock]

You CANNOT be evicted from Heaven because there is no sin there to become entangled in...only pureness of heart that was made clean by the BLOOD

 

[Warrior]

There is NO SIN in Heaven. Only Glory. We will not even be tempted there, there is No temptation in Heaven.

 

[Webers_Home]

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anyone who might sin in Heaven wouldn't get in thee in the first palce.

Well; if what you attest is true; then how is anybody to get in?

†. Mtt 19:17 . . there is none good but one, that is, God

†. Rom 3:10-20 . . As it is written: There is none righteous, no, not one;
there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They
have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; There is
none who does good, no, not one. Their throat is an open grave; with their
tongues they have practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips;
whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed
blood; destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they
have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know
that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that
every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before
God.

†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?
Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Cliff
/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Can the Ethiopian change the color of his skin or the leopard remove his
spots? The answer of course is no. So then what's to become of rank and file
pew warmers when it finally comes to the point where their personality works
forces God to evict them?

Outer darkness

But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out. Luke 13:27-28​

Well; if what you attest is true; then how is anybody to get in?

The new man is created in righteousness; the old sinful man must die.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:52-53​

 

[Templar81]

Through faith in Christ and dying with all of one's sins forgiven and then possibly after a lengthy period in Purgatory. Purgatory is made availabel to Chrsitians only.

The fact is that wether or not there is a Purgatory or not, it still stands that there is no sin in heaven and sin cannot enter there.

Rather like the Id in Freud's work, that part of our personality that causes us to sin, or that part of man which is animal like, will be dead and gone and what willl be left is our true selves, the self we would have been if man had not fallen from grace.

What I'm saying is that sin issomething that on Earth and in this life we cannot function without doing. Sin is everywhere but in Heaven and I mean the New Heaven specifically there will be no compulsion to sin as there is in this life and I don't think there would be the inclination.

Most importantly I want you to remember that in Revelations we are told that there is to be a New Heaven and a New Earth, "for the Old order of things has pased away." Right?

So why do we need a New Heven and a New Earth?

We know Earth is corrupted by Adaman and Eve's sin, causing us to live in a fallen world. In Heaven there was sin as well when Lucifer rebelled and caused a third of the Angels to rebel as well.

Also, the Devil has access to the throne of God in Heaven, which we can see in the Book of Job, because he is still technically an Angel but the New Heaven will not suffer him to enter.

The Old way of things was corrupted, even Heaven to a point was not perfect since rebellion was present there. This is why there needs to be a New Heaven and Earth. By the time the New Heaven and Earth are in place, there the devil and all those whom he has corrupted both man and Angel will be in the lake of fire, so in the New Order of things there will be no corrupting influence hence no sin.

 

[ttruscott]

Getting into heaven is only half the battle; and actually the easy part. The
real challenge is staying.

From the theological view of Pre-Conception Existence, everyone on earth has been kicked out of heaven already with the garden expulsion as a metaphor.

Much is made of Lucifer being tossed down from heaven but we were all there and those elect who had become sinners with him fell with him.

The difference with the new heaven is that our wills will not be free any more but constrained by the sanctification of the Holy Spirit in accord with our true free will decision to fulfil the purpose of GOD in our creaton.

Spiritual constrainsts limiting our free will consist of our commitment to GOD, our self constraint to fulfill HIS prpose for our creation and our commitment to love.

We do ok with these self constraints here, what will make a huge difference in the new earth when our sanctification / commitment is pure?

Peace, Ted

 

[Templar81]

I think we will ahve free will. I think God always wants us to have free will, be it on earth or in heaven. We won't ave the capacity to sin because thre won't be any sin to commit. I'm sure we ill have free will always.


I say need because sometimes in order to do the right thing we might have to sin meaning that there are situations in which sin is unavoidable but the sin is neccessary for the greater good.

 

[Angelina]

Well; if what you attest is true; then how is anybody to get in?

By faith in Jesus. Our righteousness is not our own...we stand in the righteousness of Christ. it is a gift from God along with salvation.

Blessings!!! :)

 

[Webers_Home]

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The new man is created in righteousness; the old sinful man must die.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall
sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on
immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:52-53

That's the Twinkie Defense: in other words while non-Christians are going
about saying the Devil made them do it; Christians are going about saying
their body made them do it; viz: it's just more buck-passing.

Cliff
/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's the Twinkie Defense: in other words while non-Christians are going
about saying the Devil made them do it; Christians are going about saying
their body made them do it; viz: it's just more buck-passing.

What you wrote makes no sense.

 

[Templar81]

Most non-Christians don't even believe in the Devil (except for the Muslims who are deinately in league with him).

 

[Webers_Home]

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That's the Twinkie Defense: in other words while non-Christians are going about saying
the Devil made them do it; Christians are going about saying their body made them do it;
viz: it's just more buck-passing.

What you wrote makes no sense.

"Twinkie defense" is a derisive label for an improbable legal defense. It isn't
a recognized legal defense in jurisprudence, but rather a catchall term
coined by reporters during their coverage of the 1979 trial of defendant Dan
White for the murders of San Francisco city supervisor Harvey Milk and
mayor George Moscone. White's attorney argued that his client was suffering
from diminished capacity at the time of the killings from depression and
eating too much junk food. Reporters covering the trial thus coined the term
Twinkie Defense.

I borrowed the term as a colloquialism to categorize the numbers of
Christians who sincerely believe their bodies to be the cause of their
propensity to sin rather than themselves. So the new bodies described in
1Cor 15:52-53 will, to their way of thinking, prevent them from sinning and
getting evicted from heaven. However, if human nature's propensity to sin
were remedied by merely switching to a different body, then a miraculous
birth from above about which the Lord spoke at John 3:3-8 would be
unnecessary. What the Lord describes isn't a birth of body, but a birth of
spirit. So then it's not a switch from one body to another body, but actually
a switch from human nature to a nature that's divine.

†. 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to
life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and
virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious
promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature.

Divine nature not only doesn't sin; it can't sin.

†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed
remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Cliff
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[ttruscott]

Cliff wrote:

Divine nature not only doesn't sin; it can't sin.

I contend that the Divine and the holy cannot sin because THEY WILL NOT SIN! Their inability is due to a perfect commitment to the loving relationship they share and not to a robotic cleansing of the bugs in their decision making program.

 

[mark s]

That which is born of God sins . . . not.

We have a new nature created patterned after God in righteousness and true holiness. We still have the old nature that sins. Get rid if the old nature . . . did I hear someone say 'resurrection'? . . . and you get rid of the sin.

No more sin. Ever.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I borrowed the term as a colloquialism to categorize the numbers of
Christians who sincerely believe their bodies to be the cause of their
propensity to sin rather than themselves. So the new bodies described in
1Cor 15:52-53 will, to their way of thinking, prevent them from sinning and
getting evicted from heaven. However, if human nature's propensity to sin
were remedied by merely switching to a different body, then a miraculous
birth from above about which the Lord spoke at John 3:3-8 would be
unnecessary. What the Lord describes isn't a birth of body, but a birth of
spirit. So then it's not a switch from one body to another body, but actually
a switch from human nature to a nature that's divine.

Right. Well I think you are a hammer looking for a nail. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. You apparently had something you wanted to say, and instead of just saying it misconstrued what I said to in order to make your point. If you will actually be honest with yourself and look at what I said, you will find that you are reading into my words what you wanted to find.

 

[Foreigner]

I have had one conversation on this topic in the past.

The person felt that since Lucifer was able to choose free will and Sin, that is a danger for those of us who will go to heaven.

I pointed out that angels are different from us and that God will actually have us stand in judgment of the angels.

When we get to heaven we will be TRANSFORMED and sin won't ever be a part of us again.

 

[Templar81]

No it won't. The Angels that are loyal to God have never fallen so there aren't any issues there.

Lucifer and his Angels however had full knowledge of God and unlike Adam and Eve knew exactly what they were choosing and what they were doing. They made a definate decision to rebel against God and they can never be reconciled as a result., so there is no forgiveness for them. Some peopel think that the devil can eventually go back to being an Archange of Light but this just can't happen.