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!!!! Warning !!!!....What Many "Minsters" Don't Tell You!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by arenamistica, May 22, 2007.

  1. arenamistica

    arenamistica New Member

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    ***There's more to Christianity than just believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth (this message was given to "church" of believers that had already went through the salavtion process/were already saved....see Romans intro...as well as the intro to many of the churches to which the Apostles addressed letters......i.e. the church as Ephesus.....Corinth...etc.). ***Many "ministers" (the ones who don't/are not operating in the Holy Ghost...I should say) don't tell you that once you understand that God the Father, Son(Jesus), Holy Ghost/Spirit are one (John 1:1-14, 1 John 5:7-8), that Jesus was God "in the flesh" who came to die for us (who also arose from the dead) that we through him might by saved, one MUST get baptized in Jesus name! ***Many "ministers" skip over Acts 2:38 (it reads...Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. , which is when Peter was telling people how to get saved/renew their relationship with God. (Peter was given the Kingdom Keys by God, himself).Many sure don't tell you this!!!John 3:5 -Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Jesus himself aka "God in the Flesh" even said this with his own mouth.)1 John 5:6-8: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.(Jesus got Baptized even though he didn't have to, he was an EXAMPLE for us!) So, God is truly a gracious God because he didn't just tell us how to get/be saved, he also showed us (by example).So, if your "preacher/minister" is not telling this....He/She might be a "false prophet!" It's God's way or no way! We've got to have it all (not just bits and pieces). Don't stay bound up with satan, Get Freedom as Christ intended, REAL Freedom that man can't take away! A "true" man or woman of God's teachings will "line up" with God's word! Make sure that yours does!***All scriptures taken from KJV Holy Bible.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Are you preaching that water baptism is the only way to be saved ?Matthew 3:6Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan RiverMar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost . Luk 3:16 John answered , saying unto [them] all , I indeed baptize you with water ; but one mightier than I cometh , the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose : he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire : Notice they in Mathew 3.6 they were confessing their sins and then being baptized. This was unheard of in a society of Jews. And Christ had not yet died for our sins. This was a period of transformation you could only atone through the Jewish Law or by water baptism.However as Luke and others tell us one mightier will come that does not need neither water nor Jewish law to Baptize. He will baptize with fire and the holy spirit.With the death of Christ repentance in his name and Baptism of the heart is the requirement. Water baptism is no longer necessary, though baptism is a wonderful way to confirm your belief and there is nothing wrong with it.It is not necessary to be saved
     
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I still think it's necessary to get baptized with water in Jesus (or Yahushua) name...because Christ was the first one to do so. But not water baptizing before repentance. It has to come after repentance.Matthew 3:13-17 - Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is nothing wrong with wanting water baptism Jag but to teach it is necessary for salvation is to say Christ didn't die for all just those who get water baptized.Remember the thief that died with Christ he was told he would see Christ again in heaven/paradise that very day. He was Not told to bad you aren't water baptized.
     
  5. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    I love the story in Acts 8 of the Ethiopian eunuch who meets Phillip on the road and invites him into the carriage to tell him what the scriptures mean. After hearing, the eunuch spies some water along the road and asks, “What prevents me from being baptized?” So Phillip baptizes him right then. I think baptism is very important, and ought to be given to those who appropriately ask.Of course Jesus can save people like the thief on the cross. But I think baptism is the normal way to go. This passage is also nice:
    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Thou art correct that the thief was there to die with Christ...and Christ did indeed say that. [​IMG]Luke 23:42-43 - And he (the thief) said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.Now, now, Kriss, don't put words in my mouth. I never said that Christ didn't die for those that only baptizing with water.Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.He died for all of mankind.John 3:16-18 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.But the thing is...Our Lord Jesus Christ said these words...Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.And Peter repeat Matthew 28:19...inActs 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Acts 10:47-48 - (Peter saith) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Kriss, here is a study for you.http://www.biblestudysite.com/baptism.htmLovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.P.S. Thank you B. Acts 8 does indeed talk about an eunuch being baptized with water.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I wasn't putting words in your mouth Jag or aruging against baptism I agree with B' and you. I only am concerned that areana is preaching you cant be saved without water baptism. And that is not true.
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Kriss)
    I wasn't putting words in your mouth Jag or aruging against baptism I agree with B' and you. I only am concerned that areana is preaching you cant be saved without water baptism. And that is not true.
    Okay! As you are concerned with the area, that is preached...as I am very much concerned about the Word of God.Two questions...If we can get saved 'without' water baptizing, why in the world is there false baptizing such as Infant and Sprinking baptizing? I am so corcerned.Acts 1:5 - For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.Luke 20:4 - The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?Lovest thou so much in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Thats it Jag we have to be old enough to understand we are accepting Christ as our Lord and savior to have legitmate baptism. But it is not the Baptism that saves us, it is accepting Christ. Baptism is but the out ward promise/convenet we make to him. Thus if you accept Christ with all you heart and die before you are baptized you are no less saved than someone who is baptized. That is my only point.
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Kriss)
    Thats it Jag we have to be old enough to understand we are accepting Christ as our Lord and savior to have legitmate baptism. But it is not the Baptism that saves us, it is accepting Christ. Baptism is but the out ward promise/convenet we make to him. Thus if you accept Christ with all you heart and die before you are baptized you are no less saved than someone who is baptized. That is my only point.
    Okay Kriss... ... ... I get you. And I never said that Baptism itself saves...But only Christ. And you are right about believing and accept Christ will all thine heart.Acts 8:37 - And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour. [​IMG]P.S. Besides I never sought that this discussion was being an immature.2nd P.S. Everybody has a right of their own mind. [​IMG]
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Jag what are you talking about? I never said anything about immature. I was never arguing anything against what you said I was replying to Arena Post. anything I said to you was in the light of explaining what I was saying not condeming your opinion I honestley dont know where you got anything different
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Kriss)
    Jag what are you talking about? I never said anything about immature. I was never arguing anything against what you said I was replying to Arena Post. anything I said to you was in the light of explaining what I was saying not condeming your opinion I honestley dont know where you got anything different
    1. I never said that thou hast said that it was immature...But a few words of your last post (at the very beginning) just (to me) made it look like "it was going to be immature" sooner or later. So forgive me of that thought please.Sorry that that you wondered (or misled you) about that, how it got into me...2. It was an discussion, not an argument. [​IMG]3. That's fine and dandy.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Ok. long as you know I dont think any of your questions immature and you are right it was a just a discussion love thee:)
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I love thee too Kriss. [​IMG] I'm going to say something unrelated to this topic, but related to how it's great for members (well at least who desires truth)Psalm 133:1 - Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Amen Jag
     
  16. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    And decide they need to accept Christ , you give these no hope .. for they cannot be baptised... and what of those who are baptised because of family and church but never really follow the Word or even care about what it contains? Are they "saved"? the verseJohn 3:5 -Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ... when taken back to the original language really has nothing to do with Baptism... Christ is talking of being born in the flesh as all children are carried in a sac of water in their mothers womb rand the words "of the Sprit are a mistralation.. in the Masorah the words are from above... meaning coming from the Father... Our spirits come from the Father and are placed in the water of the flesh body...it has nothing to do with spiritual salvation...The verse John 3:16 says For God so loved the World that he gave His only begotten son, that whomsoever BELEVETH in Him should not perish but has everlasting life... ........Wheres the Baptising issue here? not mentioned at all...I was Baptised and so was my son recently, but do not think it was a necessarly part of our "salvation" it is a meaningful picture of following Christ and came from a tradition of the Jewish faith called the Mikvah with is what John was doing... a cleansing of the body to purify it form uncleanness... Christ had no sin, but he could be unclean...if he had touched an unclean thing... When he began his ministy.. it is appropriate that he be cleansed...it is mentioned in the Law in Deuteromony...and is still practiced today by both the conservative and Hassidic Jews...
     
  17. arenamistica

    arenamistica New Member

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    The thief on the cross was another situation. Jesus(God in the flesh) was on the cross but he had not died yet (therefore the law was still in effect...). This man's history is also unknown to us, he could have been a circumcised Jew who fell astray.... So, technically, the New Covenant didn't apply to him (he was still under the law). Remember Abraham...the Holy Bible says that his faith in God and the promise that God made to him/his seed was counted/applied to him as/for "righteousness". Abraham was under the law, which was continued on until Christ died on the cross and etc...***I hope this helps some..
     
  18. arenamistica

    arenamistica New Member

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    If God's Word says it....that we must be baptized (immersed in water) in Jesus Name, then we must do it. If God says that there is no other way (which he did/does), be assured that there's no other way. That's where a lot of people go wrong...when they look to their own/man's wisdom which has no place in the things that pertain to God. Jesus (God in the flesh) knew that the Jews were very studious and had a lot of knowledge regarding the Law, but this was their "shortcoming" because they were so "smart" many of them didn't/still don't recognize Jesus, the Lord God Almighty (the Creator of the Law) in the Flesh.Jesus spoke simply and plainly, because he regards the socially "disadvantaged" (who many times suffer with respect to education so most likely they would not understand the complex "theories" that "men" put out there regarding salvation which DO NOT coincide with God's Word...) just as well as those that have and/or are "advantaged" (the disadvantaged probably even more so because he said that its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a "rich" man to enter into his kingdom).***Didn't Nicodemus ask Jesus very "clearly" and directly about being re-born by entering/re-entering into his/the mother's womb? John 3:1-36 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. ***Man's "womb" theory used as a "substitute" for the God Required "Water baptism in Jesus Name" is OUT (man's womb" theory goes against scripture)>,
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Betchevy)
    And decide they need to accept Christ , you give these no hope .. for they cannot be baptised... and what of those who are baptised because of family and church but never really follow the Word or even care about what it contains? Are they "saved"? the verseJohn 3:5 -Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ... when taken back to the original language really has nothing to do with Baptism... Christ is talking of being born in the flesh as all children are carried in a sac of water in their mothers womb rand the words "of the Sprit are a mistralation.. in the Masorah the words are from above... meaning coming from the Father... Our spirits come from the Father and are placed in the water of the flesh body...it has nothing to do with spiritual salvation...
    It does make sense that it (John 3:5) wasn't talking about water baptism at all...because John 3:6 admittedly that "water" is flesh. So, you are right in saying that we are in a sac of water in our mother's womb.John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.However, I believe that somewhere in the OT...Psalm 51:10 to be exact...Psalm 51:10 - Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.Even though David wrote that, I believe that to be with God...we must have a clean heart and a right spirit, to please Him. For without the right spirit...we wouldn't have that faith in Him. But without faith...Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.(Betchevy)
    The verse John 3:16 says For God so loved the World that he gave His only begotten son, that whomsoever BELEVETH in Him should not perish but has everlasting life... ........Wheres the Baptising issue here? not mentioned at all...
    Again, you are right that the Bastism wasn't mentioned at all...however that BELIEVETH some people take that word as in "If Christ did get baptized, we should do it too." In short BELIEVETH means following Him and do His will.I Peter 3:18-22 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.So if we get baptized in Jesus (or Yahushua) name, do we not have a good conscience towards God? I think so...but only people who gets water baptized who does follow Him and love the Word (for great spiritual growth)...not for those (and false baptizing, such as Infant and Sprinkling) for sit around doing nothing and don't know the Word and/or pretends to say that I know Him. In fact, how many today here wants to follow and loves Him? I say not many.(Betchevy)
    I was Baptised and so was my son recently, but do not think it was a necessarly part of our "salvation" it is a meaningful picture of following Christ and came from a tradition of the Jewish faith called the Mikvah with is what John was doing... a cleansing of the body to purify it form uncleanness... Christ had no sin, but he could be unclean...if he had touched an unclean thing... When he began his ministy.. it is appropriate that he be cleansed...it is mentioned in the Law in Deuteromony...and is still practiced today by both the conservative and Hassidic Jews...
    It is a meaningful picture to follow Christ. I got two words. Praise Yahweh. [​IMG] (or as our English Bible use, the LORD.)Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour. [​IMG]
     
  20. arenamistica

    arenamistica New Member

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    [/QUOTE (John 3:5) wasn't talking about water baptism at all...because John 3:6 admittedly that "water" is flesh. So, you are right in saying that we are in a sac of water in our mother's womb.[/QUOTE]The passage below opposes the "sac of water"/"mothers womb" theory.John 3:1-36 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.If you believe in "water baptism" in Jesus Name is necessary (and it is), as Acts 2:38 (as well as various other books in the Bible), stand up for it...don't "bow" to the suggestions of satan.For example, the OT Law required sacrificial offerings to be carried out by priests right? There was a process....the priest could enter the tabernacle without "washing" himself (via water in the laver) . If he (the priest) decided to enter the "Holy of Holies" without doing this step, God would have probably killed him on the spot! The same thing applies today except that God has given us his Grace and Mercy (which essentially gives us time ...provided that "death" does not try to step in and "take people out" (God FORBID) who have yet to complete/have not completed the process as God had intended it to be...."death" can't truly harm the "righteous"). However, God will still punish those who do not obey His Word completing this process as He has specified (an even exemplified himself) when he comes back again!
     
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