Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

Yes in no direct order of the ones they were aloud to eat from. They could choose one or 2 or 3 to eat from it was their choice just not of the knowledge tree. There was more trees than the knowledge tree and life tree in the garden.

As the verse so richly says, you need to rethink it.

Here's another one God didn't tell Adam what to name animals. Adam freely chose names he saw fit and it was so.

I'll ask again why the cross and for who if man's will is not their own. In your opinion God controls chosen the will of man, then why a need for a crucifixion?, Ark?, Divided sea?.

Genesis 3:22 isn't talking about one tree, it takes two to tango. Adam and Eve already ate of the knowledge tree can't eat of the tree of life and live forever in their physical form man. That's what the verse is saying its referencing of them already had eaten of the knowledge tree. If they chewed on both, live forever in physical form.

While post 1,259 addresses much of your post, BeyondET, this current post addresses your mid-post questions.

YOUR FIRST QUESTION: why a need for a crucifixion?

Lord Jesus says "the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many " (Matthew 20:28) and "many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14)

Now, let's look at the Apostle's prayer that mentions that God intimately ("Your hand") predestined "Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel" to do regarding the crucifixion:

“Sovereign Lord, You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, having spoken by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant,b our father David:

‘Why did the Gentiles rage,

and the peoples devise vain things?

The kings of the earth took their stand,

and the rulers were gathered together

against the Lord

and against His Christ.’

For in truth, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together in this city against Your holy servant Jesus whom You anointed, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose had determined beforehand to happen. And now, Lord, look upon their threats, and grant to Your servants to speak Your word with all boldness, in that You stretch out Your hand for healing and signs and wonders to take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” (Acts 4:24-30).

Clearly, Lord Jesus was crucified to redeem me. He is my Deliverer, and I have done nothing to deserve God's mercy, but by God's grace I am saved! PRAISE JESUS!

YOUR SECOND QUESTION: why a need for a Ark?

"YHWH saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5).

See "the thoughts of" man's "heart was only evil continually" - that sounds a lot like people who adulterate the Word of God - such as with free-will.

The evil thoughts of man's heart could include those people adding to the Word of God.

Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” (Jude 1:14-15), and know that Enoch was in the generation three before Noah.

And Enoch was prophesying about men, including men of today, who revile things which they do not understand, such as the Word of God; and the things which they know by instinct, such as adding concepts including free-will to the Word of God, by these things they are destroyed (Jude 1:10).

As to the Ark specifically, "YHWH said, 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.' But Noah found favor in the eyes of YHWH." (Genesis 6:7-8), so God had Noah build the Ark for specific (chosen) occupants (Genesis 6:13-22).

YOUR THIRD QUESTION: why a need for a Divided sea?

"Moses said to the people, 'Fear not, stand firm, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will work for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall never see again. YHWH will fight for you while you keep silent'" (Exodus 14:13-14).

"I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery" (Exodus 20:3).

The Word of God continues with "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:4), and a person saying "I chose Jesus, and because of my choosing then He must save me" has himself as a god before God because the person thinks he or she is a god controlling God.

As to the divided sea, it is written of God's love:

To Him who smote the Egyptians in their firstborn,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting,
​

And brought Israel out from their midst,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting,
​

With a strong hand and an outstretched arm,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
​

To Him who divided the Red Sea asunder,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting,
​

And made Israel pass through the midst of it,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting;
​

But He overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
​

To Him who led His people through the wilderness,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting;
​

(Psalm 136:10-15)
​

Furthermore, it is written of God's glory:

"Who caused His glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, Who divided the waters before them to make for Himself an everlasting name" (Isaiah 63:12).

God did it all in the deliverance from Egypt. Isreal was delivered while doing nothing.

We children of God are delivered (saved) by God's grace, for God's glory.

WE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE DELIVERED (SAVED) BY GOD'S GRACE FOR GOD'S GLORY. SEE POST 1,241 FOR HOW GOD CONVERTS US WHO WERE ONCE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE INTO THE CHILDREN OF GOD!

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

I openly share documents that God has me prepare, and I openly share this fact. If you had taken the time to read the opening post, then you would have known this! Apparently, your purported free-will lacks the ability to be comprehensive.

Why don't you go back to tell me which part of the first three paragraphs are copy and paste since you made the accusation?

You repeat your independence from Jesus.

I repeat my dependence on Jesus.

See that dependence is the blessing of God by reading the Word of God below?



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

The opening post would not have told me you keep notes and copy and paste from. But you like to turn things into something else freelancer.

 

[Kermos]

The opening post would not have told me you keep notes and copy and paste from. But you like to turn things into something else freelancer.

All your unfruitful divergence aside, my God has more for you.

You cast your independence from Jesus upon me, but I reject it.

I am dependent upon Jesus my Lord in all things.

See that dependence is the blessing of God by reading the Word of God below!

How clearer can I get, yes I have free will to shop what ever food I want in the grocery store, freely decide what kind of clothes to wear.

You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

All your unfruitful divergence aside, my God has more for you.

You cast your independence from Jesus upon me, but I reject it.

I am dependent upon Jesus my Lord in all things.

See that dependence is the blessing of God by reading the Word of God below!



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Some of what you say is because you live a comfortable life, not alot of worries about where your next meal will come. Starving children in the world are not born into horror because God wants them to starve to death by no means. You have alot to learn about the will of man. Certainly don't help feed the sheep more like a demeaning personality.

 

[Kermos]

Some of what you say is because you live a comfortable life, not alot of worries about where your next meal will come. Starving children in the world are not born into horror because God wants them to starve to death by no means. You have alot to learn about the will of man. Certainly don't help feed the sheep more like a demeaning personality.

Read the red letter text below, BeyondET, because Jesus covers your accusations. You know not the circumstances my Lord Jesus has me. You do not believe the Word of God about the will of man because you say man has a free will. I cast my worries on my Savior because He cares for me (1 Peter 5:7) even when the giants are closing in because my God is bigger, my Deliverer is coming!

How clearer can I get, yes I have free will to shop what ever food I want in the grocery store, freely decide what kind of clothes to wear.

You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

Read the red letter text below, BeyondET, because Jesus covers your accusations. You know not the circumstances my Lord Jesus has me. You do not believe the Word of God about the will of man because you say man has a free will. I cast my worries on my Savior because He cares for me (1 Peter 5:7) even when the giants are closing in because my God is bigger, my Deliverer is coming!



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

What you say about me doesn't bother me.

 

[Kermos]

What you say about me doesn't bother me.

That which the Christ and the Apostles say should be of grave concern, just read the below.

How clearer can I get, yes I have free will to shop what ever food I want in the grocery store, freely decide what kind of clothes to wear.

You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Rightglory]

That which the Christ and the Apostles say should be of grave concern, just read the below.



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Outside of scripture reality shows how erroneous your view might be.
Scripturally, Adam was indeed created with a will of his own. An independent will. The prayer of Jesus in the Garden before His arrest attests to the fact man has an independent will. Christ denied His will from His human natrue, in order to the Father's will.

Your whole theory makes God willing that Adam sin. It makes God forcing man to sin because man has no capacity for choice.
He becomes a mere robot, a mechanical being, even worse than animals who were given an instinct , a natural inclination.
Your text of Phil 2:13 says the opposite of what you want it to say.

The Holy Spirit is working in every single human being to do his will. That is the purpose of the Holy Spirit, calling all men to repentance. II Pet 3>9. He is not repenting mankind. Your view makes a mockery of what scripture teaches. Man is a moral, responsible being and will be held accountable for his actions. Your view denies a final judgment.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Your post shows that you do not understand scripture nor reality.

 

[Kermos]

Outside of scripture reality shows how erroneous your view might be.
Scripturally, Adam was indeed created with a will of his own.

If you had spent more effort you would have seen that I have written Adam had a will.

An independent will. The prayer of Jesus in the Garden before His arrest attests to the fact man has an independent will. Christ denied His will from His human natrue, in order to the Father's will.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Because Jesus is truly God, he explains to us mere humans that God converts us mere humans into children of God, it's called being born again, and it's a huge blessing from God (John 3:3-8).

See the Lord's word "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, "You must be born again." The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'" (John 3:3-8).

Prior to being born from above, mere humans cannot perceive the kingdom of God nor King Jesus (John 3:3-8), so your free-willians thoughts that a person can use their free-will to choose Jesus is false.

Your whole theory makes God willing that Adam sin.

The Lord's word in John 3:3-8 is not the my theory, that is the Word of God!

A person's will that is unconverted by God is the person's will being free from God; in other words, the person has a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) for the Apostle Peter wrote "The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

The self-willed person daringly revile the Word of God by claiming to choose the Word of God unto salvation.

The Word of God says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so even "coming to God" is the wrought in God!

Man wickedly claims to choose Jesus, such people heart's steal the glory of God in the salvation of man.

It makes God forcing man to sin because man has no capacity for choice.
He becomes a mere robot, a mechanical being, even worse than animals who were given an instinct , a natural inclination.

Interesting you say that it becomes a natural inclination for man to sin based upon the Word of God that I have quoted repeatedly, and the Apostle Paul wrote something very specific about the natural man:

"natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14).
​

Again, I proclaim to you that a person must be born again with a will bound to God to understand the things of the Spirit of God!

Your text of Phil 2:13 says the opposite of what you want it to say.

Your writing does not change the fact that the Apostle Paul wrote that a Christian's will is governed and controlled and bound to God "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

I say Paul says what Paul says. You say Paul does not say what Paul says.

The Holy Spirit is working in every single human being to do his will. That is the purpose of the Holy Spirit, calling all men to repentance. II Pet 3>9. He is not repenting mankind. Your view makes a mockery of what scripture teaches. Man is a moral, responsible being and will be held accountable for his actions. Your view denies a final judgment.

Your post shows that you do not understand scripture nor reality.

I have repeatedly written that a person is accountable to God for that person's own sin; however, I also have repeatedly written that God saves people from the wrath of God through the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ. This means that you have been a bearer of false witness against me.

God grants repentance to people (Acts 11:18), and apart from this of God causing a person to repent, then a person cannot repent. In 2 Peter 3:9, is referring to God being patient for every single one of God's chosen people to repent according to the Power of God to the glory of God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Rightglory]

If you had spent more effort you would have seen that I have written Adam had a will.



Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Because Jesus is truly God, he explains to us mere humans that God converts us mere humans into children of God, it's called being born again, and it's a huge blessing from God (John 3:3-8).

See the Lord's word "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, "You must be born again." The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'" (John 3:3-8).

Prior to being born from above, mere humans cannot perceive the kingdom of God nor King Jesus (John 3:3-8), so your free-willians thoughts that a person can use their free-will to choose Jesus is false.



The Lord's word in John 3:3-8 is not the my theory, that is the Word of God!

A person's will that is unconverted by God is the person's will being free from God; in other words, the person has a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) for the Apostle Peter wrote "The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

The self-willed person daringly revile the Word of God by claiming to choose the Word of God unto salvation.

The Word of God says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so even "coming to God" is the wrought in God!

Man wickedly claims to choose Jesus, such people heart's steal the glory of God in the salvation of man.



Interesting you say that it becomes a natural inclination for man to sin based upon the Word of God that I have quoted repeatedly, and the Apostle Paul wrote something very specific about the natural man:

​

"natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14).​

​

Again, I proclaim to you that a person must be born again with a will bound to God to understand the things of the Spirit of God!



Your writing does not change the fact that the Apostle Paul wrote that a Christian's will is governed and controlled and bound to God "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

I say Paul says what Paul says. You say Paul does not say what Paul says.



I have repeatedly written that a person is accountable to God for that person's own sin; however, I also have repeatedly written that God saves people from the wrath of God through the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ. This means that you have been a bearer of false witness against me.

God grants repentance to people (Acts 11:18), and apart from this of God causing a person to repent, then a person cannot repent. In 2 Peter 3:9, is referring to God being patient for every single one of God's chosen people to repent according to the Power of God to the glory of God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

First, being "born again" does not change man's will. It is free and independent from the will of God. Being Born Again, is man accepting the offer of God to repent and be baptized. Man is just as free in ;will before and after "being born again. Man, a Christian, submits his will to the will of God. Man is just as free later to reject God. Show me a text that says man's will changes and then is governed by the Holy Spirit. Phil 2:13 does not do this. The Holy Spirit cannot change man's will, can only influence it. That some men actually have a different will from other men, makes for a duality of existence in mankind. None of your texts show that phenomenon.

In fact man has two strong forces arrayed upon his will. One is Satan constantly work to hold man in his fold. The other is the Holy Spirit trying to entice man away from Satan. Satan works harder against Christians in order to win them back. God cannot force man to believe as you think Acts 11:18 says.

Also, II Pet 3:9 is NOT referencing what you call God's chosen people. It refers very clearly 'all of mankind. Why would God need to call those who have already believed.

You clearly have an underlying theory you are trying to impose over scripture.
You have failed to prove you theory "Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either."

 

[Kermos]

First, being "born again" does not change man's will. It is free and independent from the will of God. Being Born Again, is man accepting the offer of God to repent and be baptized.

Your sayings are discord from Lord Jesus Christ's sayings!

You say that a person must accept by choosing to be "born", yet being born is something that a person cannot choose nor control nor acquiesce.

See that my Lord says "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'" (John 3:3-8) which means that no person has input regarding being born from above (born again) within His larger sayings of "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, "You must be born again." The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'" (John 3:3-8).

The Spirit of God goes where the Spirit of God goes according to God's sovereignty; however man has no control of the situation which is the Spirit of God causing a person to be born again.

You are dead wrong.

Man is just as free in ;will before and after "being born again. Man, a Christian, submits his will to the will of God. Man is just as free later to reject God. Show me a text that says man's will changes and then is governed by the Holy Spirit. Phil 2:13 does not do this. The Holy Spirit cannot change man's will, can only influence it. That some men actually have a different will from other men, makes for a duality of existence in mankind. None of your texts show that phenomenon.

Here is the Word of God showing that our Christian's gracious Benefactor, that is God, controls all aspects of man's salvation and man does nothing - man does not even do the work of choosing Jesus.

1. Our gracious Benefactor produces
   1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
      AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
   2. beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
      "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
   3. beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
   4. beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
   5. beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)
      AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus' words with thier saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
   6. beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)
      AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7, see the phrase "love is from God" meaning God is the source of true love)
      AND John expands with his writing of "God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him" (1 John 4:16, see the phrase "one who abides in Love" is equivocated with "one who abides" "in God" which extends from God's exclusivity with "God is Love")
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You wrote "Phil 2:13 does not do this" which is true because the verse does not manipulate man's will, yet GOD DOES MANIPULATE MAN'S WILL PRECISELY AS PAUL RECORDED IN PHILIPPIANS 2:13.

In fact man has two strong forces arrayed upon his will.

That does not change the fact that Jesus controls who is saved and remains saved from the wrath of God as scripturally demonstrated above. You are dead wrong.

Continued to post #1,292

 

[Kermos]

Continued from post #1,291

One is Satan constantly work to hold man in his fold. The other is the Holy Spirit trying to entice man away from Satan. Satan works harder against Christians in order to win them back. God cannot force man to believe as you think Acts 11:18 says.

Whoa, you wrote "God cannot force man to believe as you think Acts 11:18 says", yet the Apostles glorified God saying "God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) thus the Apostles declared that God controls repentance in people.

You are dead wrong.

Also, II Pet 3:9 is NOT referencing what you call God's chosen people. It refers very clearly 'all of mankind. Why would God need to call those who have already believed.

Notice, 2 Peter 3:9 contains no indication that man controls repentance.

Furthermore, the Apostle Peter's second letter is addressed to believers (2 Peter 1:1), and this impacts when Peter wrote "you" in the letter.

When Peter wrote "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then rhe "patient toward you" is the same as "patient toward the persons of the Assembly of God" which limits the "all" to be reference to persons that are or will be the Assembly of God. God has been patient with persons that are already in the Assembly of God, and God is being patient with persons that will enter the Assembly of God. Only persons that God chooses and predestines and foreknows enter the Assembly of God as children of God!

You are dead wrong.

You clearly have an underlying theory you are trying to impose over scripture.
You have failed to prove you theory "Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either."

Your writing utterly and completely lacks scripture citation that states that man has a free-will to choose Jesus, so that means free will is just your imagination.

I do not present a theory. Truly, it's the Word of God. But your thoughts are out of accord with the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Truly, God had me show that Adam was not imparted freewill based upon scripture, but that would require you to be proactive and go back in the thread to read.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Rightglory]

Your sayings are discord from Lord Jesus Christ's sayings!

You say that a person must accept by choosing to be "born", yet being born is something that a person cannot choose nor control nor acquiesce.

See that my Lord says "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'" (John 3:3-8) which means that no person has input regarding being born from above (born again) within His larger sayings of "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, "You must be born again." The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'" (John 3:3-8).

The Spirit of God goes where the Spirit of God goes according to God's sovereignty; however man has no control of the situation which is the Spirit of God causing a person to be born again.

You are dead wrong.

I think we are hung up on the meaning of words. You use "causing" and scripture uses "influence". A vast difference in meaning.

Here is the Word of God showing that our Christian's gracious Benefactor, that is God, controls all aspects of man's salvation and man does nothing - man does not even do the work of choosing Jesus.

1. Our gracious Benefactor produces
   1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
      AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
   2. beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
      "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
   3. beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
   4. beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
   5. beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)
      AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus' words with thier saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
   6. beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)
      AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7, see the phrase "love is from God" meaning God is the source of true love)
      AND John expands with his writing of "God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him" (1 John 4:16, see the phrase "one who abides in Love" is equivocated with "one who abides" "in God" which extends from God's exclusivity with "God is Love")
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

You wrote "Phil 2:13 does not do this" which is true because the verse does not manipulate man's will, yet GOD DOES MANIPULATE MAN'S WILL PRECISELY AS PAUL RECORDED IN PHILIPPIANS 2:13.

If you really believe that God causes man to believe and that God causes man to think differently, the how do you answer that man, a believer still sins. Your theory makes God not just the author of a believers sin, but is actively doing the sinning, since God controls the will of a believer. You clearly have not thought your theory through. It is not at all consistent with scripture.

That does not change the fact that Jesus controls who is saved and remains saved from the wrath of God as scripturally demonstrated above. You are dead wrong.

Again. you clearly make God the author of sin in a believer, as well as God actually sinning. There is no text in all of scripture that says a man is saved, past tense, as an individual in his lifetime. It is consistantly portrayed as a journey. A life long journey of being faithful in all things. Living unto God constinually and that striving is all man's responsibility, otherwise there is no need for a judgement. Why would
God need to judge Himself.

Continued to post #1,292

 

[Rightglory]

Continued from post #1,291



Whoa, you wrote "God cannot force man to believe as you think Acts 11:18 says", yet the Apostles glorified God saying "God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) thus the Apostles declared that God controls repentance in people.

You are dead wrong.

you just proved me correct. What the text says is that God granted repentance to the Gentiles as well as Jews. God does not repent for either one. Making it available does not make God the active agent in repentance. He does not control it, but by His work of redemption, offers it. Eph 2:13-18. He is speaking about making one man, not keeping two, Jew and Gentile. It does not mean he "saved" "repented" "converted" all men. You are misusing the meaning of words, which is why you totally misunderstand

Notice, 2 Peter 3:9 contains no indication that man controls repentance.

Furthermore, the Apostle Peter's second letter is addressed to believers (2 Peter 1:1), and this impacts when Peter wrote "you" in the letter.

When Peter wrote "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), then rhe "patient toward you" is the same as "patient toward the persons of the Assembly of God" which limits the "all" to be reference to persons that are or will be the Assembly of God. God has been patient with persons that are already in the Assembly of God, and God is being patient with persons that will enter the Assembly of God. Only persons that God chooses and predestines and foreknows enter the Assembly of God as children of God!

You are dead wrong.

Ah Ha, now we have the truth. Predestination. The greatest fallacy of John Calvin. God actually predestined that Christ would redeem the world, not specific persons. That is what all those texts I cited, which you have not responded to yet. They all refute your theory, "John Calvin's theory.
II Pet 3:9 makes God very capricious. If one is predestined to salvation, to belief, are they not predestined from eternity. Why is
God waiting for them to believe so as not to perish. So according to your view, God permits believers to wallow in sin for various time periods, then at some unexplained reason He decides to kick in His predestination of that person.
There is absolutely no limitation upon Christ's work of redemption. Again, I cited earlier many texts that address this issue. You have yet not responded to them.
The text categorically denies the whole theory of predestination.

Your writing utterly and completely lacks scripture citation that states that man has a free-will to choose Jesus, so that means free will is just your imagination.

The whole of scripture implies it. It never uses the phrase "free will" but does use the word will. The most emphatic statement that man has a free will is Jesus's prayer in the Garden. Christ is submitting His human will to the will of God. That is precisely what man is required to do.

I do not present a theory. Truly, it's the Word of God. But your thoughts are out of accord with the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Now you want to broaden these texts which are directly speaking to Jesus choosing the twelve disciples. Now you want to make it to be all believers. Like I said before, your theory does not reflect scripture, thus cannot be consistent with scripture.

Truly, God had me show that Adam was not imparted freewill based upon scripture, but that would require you to be proactive and go back in the thread to read.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

You may think He has shown you, but your words belie what scripture actually means as the Holy Spirit delivered it to the Apostles.
I don't need to go back and read your original statement. You have been trying, though unsuccessfully, to say scripture says so. Yet scripture is quite emphatic to the opposite.

 

[BeyondET]

That which the Christ and the Apostles say should be of grave concern, just read the below.



You emphatically declared your personal free will in your post, so your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

You convey that you control your will yourself.

See the word "self" in the word "yourself", so, in effect, you cast yourself as self-willed. Now, see the word "self" in the subsequent Apostle's quoted declaration as well as how the Apostle uses the word "self":

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

See that "self-willed" people "under punishment for the day of judgment" according to Peter's Apostolic testimony.

Lord Jesus poses a rhetorical question which self-contains an answer "why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57); and since choosing Right, that is Jesus, is the right thing to do according to free-willian philosophy, then Jesus says choosing Right cannot be done by people right there.

Either you believe Apostolic testimony, or you don't.

By the way, my loving God expresses His value and interest in the intimate details of my life for He says "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30) and "Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you" (Matthew 6:31-33).

But, in effect, you cast yourself as not of value to God; furthermore, you say God is not interested in you. Just look at what you wrote about shopping/eating and clothing in contrast to the Lord's sayings about eating and clothing.

We Christians, our will, is governed and controlled and bound to God for the Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

You keep repeating yourself saying that I said God isn't interested in me I never said that, it is your own opinion

 

[-Phil]

That some men actually have a different will from other men, makes for a duality of existence in mankind.

The duality is man & God. ‘Free will’ is exactly as experienced, it’s the concept, “free will”.
There is no duality. Even, and any ‘will’, ‘believer’, etc is a duality.

 

[Rightglory]

The duality is man & God. ‘Free will’ is exactly as experienced, it’s the concept, “free will”.
There is no duality. Even, and any ‘will’, ‘believer’, etc is a duality.

fully agree, However Kermos, holds the view that man's nature is different between a believer and an unbeliever.

 

[-Phil]

fully agree, However Kermos, holds the view that man's nature is different between a believer and an unbeliever.

Oh yeah, ‘Kermos’ still knows a lot.
Much love.

 

[Rightglory]

fully agree, However Kermos, holds the view that man's nature is different between a believer and an unbeliever.

Oh yeah, ‘Kermos’ still knows a lot.
Much love.

I'm not sure just which idea you actually believe as scriptural. I thought you had agreed with mine, but now you seem to hold that Kermos is correct.
If so, I totally misunderstood what you stated.

 

[-Phil]

I'm not sure just which idea you actually believe as scriptural. I thought you had agreed with mine, but now you seem to hold that Kermos is correct.
If so, I totally misunderstood what you stated.

“I know” is an illusion.