So, Adam did not have a choice in the matter of whether or not he would eat the fruit?
Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?
- Thread starter Kermos
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WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Eve had absolutely no understanding of the ramifications of eating the fruit, nor did Adam. No concept of what it meant to die, nor what forbidden meant, nor what for that matter it would mean in the ultimatum of obey and have life, or disobey and die.
And for that matter, ever wonder why it was deemed forbidden and later wrong , after eating, that Adam and Eve then possessed the same knowledge as that of God? Knowing, good from evil, right from wrong? (“Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 3:22)
When generations later God sent himself to sacrifice himself in order that those who believe would have eternal life, and while in human form and knowing both good and evil, right and wrong.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Peter or was it paul says something real interesting .
Wait it was paul ........i think .
Has anyone wondered why the serpent tempted eve and not rather adam .
Doesnt paul say something concerning this . The reason why he didnt allow women to teach and ursurp authority over the men .
OH , i aint even excusing adam . But it seems he chose his wife over GOD when he decided to go ahead and eat
the fruit from his wifes hand . So he was guilty too .
I JUST PRAISE GOD FOR JESUS . cause anyone of us would have failed just like adam and eve did . And that too is a fact .
BUT JESUS DIDNT FAIL . NO sirs and no mams . HE PREVAILED . AND HE DID IT FOR US . YES FOR US .
SO that all who would believe would be saved . DONT that make us wanna just dance a jig of praise unto OUR LORD . IT SURE DOES ME .
Wait it was paul ........i think .
Has anyone wondered why the serpent tempted eve and not rather adam .
Doesnt paul say something concerning this . The reason why he didnt allow women to teach and ursurp authority over the men .
OH , i aint even excusing adam . But it seems he chose his wife over GOD when he decided to go ahead and eat
the fruit from his wifes hand . So he was guilty too .
I JUST PRAISE GOD FOR JESUS . cause anyone of us would have failed just like adam and eve did . And that too is a fact .
BUT JESUS DIDNT FAIL . NO sirs and no mams . HE PREVAILED . AND HE DID IT FOR US . YES FOR US .
SO that all who would believe would be saved . DONT that make us wanna just dance a jig of praise unto OUR LORD . IT SURE DOES ME .
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Yeahhh, about that. There is no scripture that actually says God does not call women to teach/preach his word. Not even that in what is misunderstood and in complete error taught as Paul's words to that effect. Because if Paul were to have said anything remotely like that, and he didn't, he'd have been his own practicing hypocrite given he boasted of the women in his circle who preached, no term like preacher then but were Apostles, right along side him and spreading the good news.
Paul said, we are all one in Christ. No male or female, Greek or Jew, etc... He'd be false again if having said that he insisted teachers of the way, Apostles called by God, could not be women because of their God given sex. That would revoke the oneness of the church entirely. And Paul would then be a hypocrite behind his own words.
Sin entered the world through one man! Scripture says. Not, one woman.
Adam was told by God what not to do. Adam then told Eve. He failed as one who is allegedly to be head of the woman when he was with Eve after she ate and then did eat himself at her invitation. That in itself revokes any idea that men are superior in leadership over women when one failed in that office, in the beginning.
Did Jesus not have a choice in the matter of whether or not He would fail or succeed at accomplishing His mission?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
All we need to do is rightly divide the word . JUST because women cannot usurp authority over men , DONT mean
they cannot prophesy , give aide to , and go out and witness as well . It just means they are not to usurp authority over the men .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Look at what paul made clear in the letter to the corinthains , chapter fourteen .
And he makes it very clear . That any who is truly spiritual , LET THEM KNOW these are the commandments
not of paul , BUT OF THE LORD . let us take that serious .
Look , i never said women cannot prophesy . phillilp had four virgin daughters who did so .
ITS just they cannot ursurp authority over the men , over the church .
Thus let us stick to the commandemnts of the LORD . Its real easy really . Let men not decieve us or trick us .
THE REASON men began allowing women to teach and to say its okay to do so , IS cause they feared womens lib .
TRUTH . TRUTH indeed . BUT again i am NOT saying they cannot prophesy , i am not saying they are dumber than men
i am just saying what the bible says . And let us just heed it .
And he makes it very clear . That any who is truly spiritual , LET THEM KNOW these are the commandments
not of paul , BUT OF THE LORD . let us take that serious .
Look , i never said women cannot prophesy . phillilp had four virgin daughters who did so .
ITS just they cannot ursurp authority over the men , over the church .
Thus let us stick to the commandemnts of the LORD . Its real easy really . Let men not decieve us or trick us .
THE REASON men began allowing women to teach and to say its okay to do so , IS cause they feared womens lib .
TRUTH . TRUTH indeed . BUT again i am NOT saying they cannot prophesy , i am not saying they are dumber than men
i am just saying what the bible says . And let us just heed it .
He was already given an informed choice directly by God. All he had to do was obey.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
God knew he didn't possess the knowledge of right and wrong. Therefore, he couldn't comprehend the order because he did not possess its logical antecedent, understanding, comprehension, knowledge, of obedience or disobedience.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Contrary to his self correction, God didn't say that. Paul said that in directing the policy of the churches he founded.
And again, if we are all one in Christ, it isn't a matter of exerting authority over. It is a matter of who is most fit for the job in serving as one, the one God.
Look, if women were intended to be lesser beings by God's order, the future existence of the human race would not have been made dependent upon the woman.
And if that were actually true about women having authority over men, we wouldn't have women generals in the U.S military, but we do. Oh, and not that I approve in the least but not because she's female, we wouldn't have the first female VP in American history. Or, women on the highest court in the land and seated at a bench that has behind it the brass plaque that reads, IN GOD WE TRUST.
And of course, God wouldn't have determined a woman to be highly favored so as to beget Jesus and bring the Savior and Messiah to life in the world. She had authority over men because at the wedding in Cana she directed the servants of the house, men and women, to do whatever her son Jesus instructed them to do. And they did it!
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Really? How does a bingo apply when someone has no comprehension of right and wrong? How then do they exercise free will to obey, or disobey, if they don't possess the knowledge of the variables?
Do you punish a newborn, or a one year old, for disobeying a direct order?
Davy
Well-Known Member
In all your carefulness you have forgotten some important Biblical aspects about their state in God's Garden. Adam and Eve did not commit the very first sin, Satan did in the old world before Adam and Eve. Satan's sin in the beginning is what brought sin and thus death (1 John 3:8; Hebrews 2:14). By the time Satan as "that old serpent" was in Eden tempting Eve, he was already doomed to perish and in his role as Adversary. Because Paul showed in 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does 'corruption'... inherit incorruption, that shows Adam and Eve's flesh represented a state of corruption for this world. It was Eve's flesh that caused her to be tempted and sin in disobeying God. She even said the fruit was good for food and pleasant to the eyes (Gen.3). At the end of Romans 7, Apostle Paul (in the KJV) showed the law of sin existed in his fleshy members in contrast to the law of God in the inner man (i.e., one's spirit). So when considering this matter of Adam and Eve in God's Garden, the flesh vs. spirit must be understood.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
No one forced Satan to do the very first sin against God either. The matter of free will is simple, and really doesn't offer much debate. God could have created us all like robots making us love Him, but that wouldn't be real love. Instead He gave us free will to choose. Once everyone has made their choice, that's when He will make us anew, none will ever turn again.
Wow, it appears you squeeze your eyes shut to the vast majority of my post to you including the definitive proof that you added to the Word of God in your earlier post.
Please go back to my previous post to you, and dig into it.
Now, on to your current post that onely quoted a small, tiny bit of my post to you.
First, the passage that Paul wrote is:
39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
40 But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.
(1 Corinthians 7:39-40)
Nothing in the passage you present indicates that a person interprets the Word of God; on the other hand, Peter explicitly states "know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:20-21).
This is the truth, interpretation is up to the Spirit of God, not you (2 Peter 1:21).
The Word of God is clear about the absence of a thing called free-will for Adam per the scripturally filled original post to this thread. No person after Adam and Eve have been endowed with a free will after Adam and Eve.
Please go back to my previous post to you, and dig into it.
Now, on to your current post that onely quoted a small, tiny bit of my post to you.
First, the passage that Paul wrote is:
39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
40 But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.
(1 Corinthians 7:39-40)
Nothing in the passage you present indicates that a person interprets the Word of God; on the other hand, Peter explicitly states "know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:20-21).
This is the truth, interpretation is up to the Spirit of God, not you (2 Peter 1:21).
The Word of God is clear about the absence of a thing called free-will for Adam per the scripturally filled original post to this thread. No person after Adam and Eve have been endowed with a free will after Adam and Eve.
I thank God for the Holy Spirit that teaches me Truth (John 14:6, John 14:18, John 14:26)!
Your post appears to disclaim the crucial treasure of the Spirit of the Living God to believers.
Your post is devoid of scripture, again!
As the scripturally filled original post clearly proves, Adam was not imparted with free will nor are any of his progeny for his progeny are in the "old things" unless God makes his progeny a "new creation" as clearly indicated in Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor
Smarten up Kermos, I said that YOU don't have the Spirit, not that it's not the power of God, nor avaialble to the faithful and humble, ...unlike yourself.
You really sound weird, your exegesis is deplorable, you lack a great deal of wisdom.
BTW, did you write Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor?
Yes; and 1 Corinthians 7:40-b says "I think that I also have the Spirit of God."
That free will is given to man is evident in such scriptures as Revelation 3:20, Revelation 22:17, Joshua 24:15, and John 1:12.
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