Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[BeyondET]

Your response is lacking scripture, so here is some scripture in this post for you to face.

mm, that's still a name I don't recognize from the Bible.

Here's a name from the Bible, Peter the Apostle, and Peter wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

Here's another name from the Bible, Paul the Apostle, and Paul wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again.
Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

BeyondET, you do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

BeyondET, you do have a self will, as described by Peter.

BeyondET, you gleefully separate yourself from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God, as described by Paul.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Well as for me, it was not a choice but the one thing I had to get through... yet you are correct I have separated I apologize thank you but still im not selling my birthright for a bowl of bean soup like Esau did.

 

[Kermos]

Your opening words pretty strong, look at your own log,

Why don't we both have a look see at post history?

Those opening words are based upon your writing - you cited zero scripture in that post as well as your post quoted above as support for your free-willian philosophy.

In the post to which you replied, there are at least 20 scripture citations proclaiming God's sovereignty in man's salvation - and many scriptures quoted verbatim - all correctly in context.

The record speaks for itself.

Now back to the point.

So, you claim Jesus said "What I say to you I do not say to all" (thoughts of BeyondET and @Renniks), yet Jesus truly says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37):; therefore, you lie about the Word of God.

Furthermore, Jesus did not say "You eleven did not choose Me, but I chose only the eleven of you" (thoughts of BeyondET and Renniks), yet Jesus truly says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, you lie about the Word of God, again.

Moreover, Jesus did not say "I did not choose you out of the world" (thoughts of BeyondET and Renniks purporting that it's not about salvation), yet Jesus truly says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation); therefore, you lie about the Word of God, yet again.

Now, let's look at who else beyond the 11 who Jesus tells that Jesus chose.

The disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

"'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:21-23)

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Joanna, Susanna, Salome, Mary, and Cleopas and his traveling companion to Emmaus - every one of these individuals are mentioned in close temporal proximity to the time of supper in John chapters 13-17.

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the eleven (and twelve for part of the supper) who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Lord Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and His words of "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) include all His own, His chosen persons, in all time, regardless of when such persons are born.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Chosen for a job, not salvation. Next!

Your "next" is very dismissive of the Word of God, after all, the Word of God says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) which covers salvation.

Your word "cooperating" still represents a "choice" by the human through upon which the human's salvation hinges, yet human choice is explicitly excluded by Jesus with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes salvation and sanctification) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

That means that what you think is "the Holy Spirit working on a person" truly is NOT "the Holy Spirit working on a person". Scary, man!

Now, to remind you the context for the above.

Renniks, you think that choosing Jesus is requisite for salvation.

Believing is a work of God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent" (John 6:29).

While it's true that no one saves themselves, that's not what you think because YOU THINK A PERSON MUST DO A WORK OF CHOOSING JESUS, YET ANOTHER PERSON WITHOUT THE WORK OF CHOOSING JESUS GOES TO HELL.

THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns herself.

SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal going to hell, that is, being unsaved.

WHICH means that being saved hinges entirely on the guy's choice.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

Why don't we both have a look see at post history?

Those opening words are based upon your writing - you cited zero scripture in that post as well as your post quoted above as support for your free-willian philosophy.

In the post to which you replied, there are at least 20 scripture citations proclaiming God's sovereignty in man's salvation - and many scriptures quoted verbatim - all correctly in context.

The record speaks for itself.

Now back to the point.

So, you claim Jesus said "What I say to you I do not say to all" (thoughts of BeyondET and @Renniks), yet Jesus truly says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37):; therefore, you lie about the Word of God.

Furthermore, Jesus did not say "You eleven did not choose Me, but I chose only the eleven of you" (thoughts of BeyondET and Renniks), yet Jesus truly says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, you lie about the Word of God, again.

Moreover, Jesus did not say "I did not choose you out of the world" (thoughts of BeyondET and Renniks purporting that it's not about salvation), yet Jesus truly says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation); therefore, you lie about the Word of God, yet again.

Now, let's look at who else beyond the 11 who Jesus tells that Jesus chose.

The disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

"'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:21-23)

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Joanna, Susanna, Salome, Mary, and Cleopas and his traveling companion to Emmaus - every one of these individuals are mentioned in close temporal proximity to the time of supper in John chapters 13-17.

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the eleven (and twelve for part of the supper) who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Lord Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and His words of "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) include all His own, His chosen persons, in all time, regardless of when such persons are born.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

The thoughts you mentioned are mainly your prospective, I don't totally agree with all your saying. Jesus chose some for a purpose that's clearly seen I agree. But there are others that no one can say for certain how they acquired such things except for One.

The mentioning of lying doesn't show any seasoning, if your correct then I would be ignorant and blind lying has nothing to do with lack of knowledge understanding.

Luke 9:49
…49“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

Matthew 27:57
57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus.

 

[Renniks]

Faith isn't a work. Next!

In fact, you think God causes most people to choose hell. So much for the mercy of God, eh? What is the cross for, if that's the case?

While it's true that no one saves themselves, that's not what you think because YOU THINK A PERSON MUST DO A WORK OF CHOOSING JESUS, YET ANOTHER PERSON WITHOUT THE WORK OF CHOOSING JESUS GOES TO HELL.

THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns herself.

 

[Kermos]

Do what where did the poster say someone is going to hell??

Did you know that hell, or gehenna, is mentioned in the Bible?

Man Opening The Door To Salvation - The Free-willian Philosophy Explained

Free-willians think a person achieves salvation by doing the work of choosing Jesus, yet free-willians simultaneously think another person goes to hell in the absence of doing the work of choosing Jesus.

THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves the guy himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns the gal herself.

SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal.

POINTEDLY, the guy's salvation hinges solely on the guy's choosing Jesus because, in contrast to being saved, the guy would be hell-bound if that hinge of choosing Jesus did not swing open by the guy's power.

The "hinge" of the door mentioned above is based on free will philosophy.

On the other hand; we Christians hear the Master say "it is finished" (John 19:30), and in that moment we receive the love of God (John 3:16) bestowing undeserved forgiveness upon us wretched God-hating monsters (Ephesians 2:1-4) - that the Son sacrificed Himself to reconcile the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) for the glory of God (John 17:4-5).

We believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent, and we believe Lord Jesus' sayings that belief is the blessed work of God in us (John 6:28) - it is more than an awakening - it is an enlivening - it is being born again (John 3:3-8) - it is getting the new heart that God wondrously implants in us (Ezekiel 36:26).

We Christians know that God's merciful salvation hinges on Christ alone for the glory of God alone, and there is nothing we can do nor say - not even a human choice approving of Jesus in order to obtain saving grace - nothing we say or do earns the unearnable love of God. We believe that Being saved from the wrath of God is exclusively God choosing us, not us choosing God (John 15:16, John 15:19).

For Christians, it is "believing"; in contrast, for the guy saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it is "choosing".

For us Christians, it all hinges on Christ alone, yet for the free-willians saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it all hinges on the a free-willian's choice.

The free will philosophy is proven to be deception because "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18), so God does not trust a person who chooses Jesus; therefore, a free-willian who says "I chose Jesus" is bound for hell.

Behold, the psalmist says he is entirely dependent upon the Almighty!

I will extol You, O YHWH, for You have lifted me up,
And have not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O YHWH my God,
I cried to You for help, and You healed me.
O YHWH, You have brought up my soul from Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
(Psalm 30:1-3)

See "The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals" sidebar for more insight.

 

[BeyondET]

Did you know that hell, or gehenna, is mentioned in the Bible?

Man Opening The Door To Salvation - The Free-willian Philosophy Explained

Free-willians think a person achieves salvation by doing the work of choosing Jesus, yet free-willians simultaneously think another person goes to hell in the absence of doing the work of choosing Jesus.

THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves the guy himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns the gal herself.

SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal.

POINTEDLY, the guy's salvation hinges solely on the guy's choosing Jesus because, in contrast to being saved, the guy would be hell-bound if that hinge of choosing Jesus did not swing open by the guy's power.

The "hinge" of the door mentioned above is based on free will philosophy.

On the other hand; we Christians hear the Master say "it is finished" (John 19:30), and in that moment we receive the love of God (John 3:16) bestowing undeserved forgiveness upon us wretched God-hating monsters (Ephesians 2:1-4) - that the Son sacrificed Himself to reconcile the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) for the glory of God (John 17:4-5).

We believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent, and we believe Lord Jesus' sayings that belief is the blessed work of God in us (John 6:28) - it is more than an awakening - it is an enlivening - it is being born again (John 3:3-8) - it is getting the new heart that God wondrously implants in us (Ezekiel 36:26).

We Christians know that God's merciful salvation hinges on Christ alone for the glory of God alone, and there is nothing we can do nor say - not even a human choice approving of Jesus in order to obtain saving grace - nothing we say or do earns the unearnable love of God. We believe that Being saved from the wrath of God is exclusively God choosing us, not us choosing God (John 15:16, John 15:19).

For Christians, it is "believing"; in contrast, for the guy saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it is "choosing".

For us Christians, it all hinges on Christ alone, yet for the free-willians saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it all hinges on the a free-willian's choice.

The free will philosophy is proven to be deception because "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18), so God does not trust a person who chooses Jesus; therefore, a free-willian who says "I chose Jesus" is bound for hell.

Behold, the psalmist says he is entirely dependent upon the Almighty!

I will extol You, O YHWH, for You have lifted me up,
And have not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O YHWH my God,
I cried to You for help, and You healed me.
O YHWH, You have brought up my soul from Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
(Psalm 30:1-3)

See "The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals" sidebar for more insight.

Pointedly i didn't see the poster mention someone going to hell.

 

[Kermos]

This is hilarious... What's your actually saying is" it's not a work but it is a work. "


Yes Grace is a gift.. salvation is a gift, but it must be accepted.

There is an element of truth to what you wrote, but we need to look at how your writing departs from the Truth (John 14:6).

A Christian's belief/faith is a work of God but not a work of the Christian (John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10), so your paraphrase in your post departs from the Truth (John 14:6).

Your "accepted" is a work.

Paul wrote here that belief of a person in Jesus is not of man "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work" (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Behold, Renniks, that Paul wrote "we are His work" (Ephesians 2:10).

Behold, Renniks, that Paul is in accord with Jesus "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent" (John 6:29).

Choosing is a work because the mind (or heart) is working on the choice. When a choice is announced, then the mind and muscles work to produce the words "I accept Jesus".

Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes salvation and sanctification) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), and Jesus says that with no limitations so He applies it to all Christians in all time.

Yet, you say you thst you can choose Jesus.

That's a lot of Jesus' sayings which you reject - even His sayings about who He is. Jesus says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

Renniks, you think that choosing Jesus is requisite for salvation.

You think salvation hinges on a person's choice, in effect, Jesus is not enough without the person doing something - the something is choosing Jesus.YOU THINK A PERSON MUST DO A WORK OF CHOOSING JESUS, YET ANOTHER PERSON WITHOUT THE WORK OF CHOOSING JESUS GOES TO HELL.

THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns herself.

SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

You just contradicted yourself.

You have no evidence whatsoever that one choosing is for salvation and the other one is for something else. Choosing them out of the world is not causing them to be saved. They all had to choose, just like Judas.

Truly, there is ample evidence that the choosing is for salvation because Lord Jesus uses a blanket statement when He issues "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), so the blanket statement includes salvation.

Lord Jesus explains the diametric of the world opposing the Kingdom of God with "If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you" (John 15:19).

John 15:16 and John 15:19 are in the same dialog and passage.

"I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) is the King declaring His glorious choosing of His own subjects unto salvation. His choosing removes persons OUT of the world destined for destruction thus into the Kingdom of God.

Jesus did not say "You did not choose Me yet you all had to choose Me, but I chose only the eleven of you" (word of Renniks), yet Jesus truly says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Word of God, John 15:16); therefore, you LIE about the Word of God, again.

Man, your writing, your thoughts are so divergent from the Word of God recorded by the Apostle John there.

You prolificly exclude yourself from being among the chosen unto salvation by Jesus.

You persist in your lack of repentance of you claim Jesus said "What I say to you I do not say to all" (thoughts of @BeyondET and Renniks), yet Jesus truly says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37):; therefore, you LIE about the Word of God.

Renniks, as a reminder to you, the disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" (Acts chapter 1)- see that it is all the time they were with Jesus including the dialog recorded in John chapter 15 proclaimed to you. That's more than the eleven present when the Lord says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Renniks]

Choosing is a work because the mind (or heart) is working on the choice.

Sigh. Faith isn't works. Read Galatians.

 

[Renniks]

You prolificly exclude yourself from being among the chosen unto salvation by Jesus.

Impossible... according to your theology.

 

[Kermos]

None of these scriptures cancel out the choice.


You conveniently forgot when Paul describes how one becomes saved in Ephesians 1.


12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.


Nothing Paul says makes irresistible Grace necessary for salvation.

Paul made reference to Jesus raising dead men to everlasting life in Jesus with "you were dead in your trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1), snd dead men are incapable of choosing Jesus!

Interestingly, you omit the Word of God that was quoted to you. Jesus speaks to all believers in all time when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Behold, the Way (John 14:6) is Jesus choosing people unto salvation - not people choosing Jesus.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Renniks]

Paul made reference to Jesus raising dead men to everlasting life in Jesus with "you were dead in your trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1), snd dead men are incapable of choosing Jesus!

Why do you just keep repeating the same words?
Yes we are raised to life from death when we choose to believe. We are also described as being dead to sin after salvation but we can still choose to sin.

 

[Kermos]

Your misguided attempt to teach men do not have freewill, on its face is a load of nonsense.


Your personal accusation against me is disgustingly inaccurate and out of line.


You might consider climbing off your high horse and actually read the Lord Gods Offerings to mankind (FROM ADAM Forward) and a mans FREEWILL TO CHOOSE TO TAKE Gods Offerings......OT NOT!


I am NOT SUBJECT TO your narrow minded ignorance and lack of Spiritual Understanding.


...God Gives to mankind.

...God Offers for mankind to TAKE what God Gives.

...Mankind May FREELY CHOOSE, by the mans OWN WILL;

...To TAKE Gods Offering......OR NOT!



*** Gods FIRST FOOD offering to ADAM.


Gen 1:

[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


*** Gods SECOND FOOD offering to ADAM.


Gen 2:

[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


*** Every offspring from ADAM forward.


Gen 1:

[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


*** Mans OFFERING to God.


Exod. 29:

[14] But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin offering.

[36] And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.

Exod.30

[10] And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offeringof atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD.


*** Gods OFFERING to ALL of Mankind


John 6:

[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


John 6:

[50] This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.


Matt 26:

[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.


Heb 10:

[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Josh 24:

[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


1 Thes 1:

[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.



IF YOU HAVE NOT exercised your own Freewill, and TAKEN Gods Offering....that is YOUR burden to bear.....and has ZERO effect on me!


Glory to God,

Take

Your goofy stance of “not imparted free will”, on its face is laughable.

God CREATED mans FORM, BODY, from dust of the earth.

Gen 2:
[7a] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground...

The end....! Oh wait, there is that conjunctive AND word...

Gen 2:
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Since YOU DO NOT have FREEWILL...WHO EXACTLY IS MAKING YOU sit, open your computer, think nonsense, then type the nonsense you think AGAINST Gods Word? According to Scripture, you are influenced by an Evil Spirit.

You openly admit before everyone to the self willed evil deed of adulterating the Word of God as recorded in this post! Self willed people revile the kingdom of heaven by adulterating scripture to conform to their non-god idol (2 Peter 2:9-10). One who adulterates the Word of God is an intrinsically dangerous and unreliable source (Psalm 1:1), so such a one has a corruptly evil will that is not a friend of Righteousness (2 John 1:10).

None of the Scripture that you cite accurately states that man can choose God.

For example, Paul opened the letter by writing of God's power with "having known, brethren beloved, by God, your election" (1 Thessalonians 1:4, accurate Greek to English translation), so Paul wrote God elects man there, not man electing God; moreover, Paul closed the letter similarly by writing of God's power with "that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His" (1 Thessalonians 3:13). In effect, in your heart, you change it from God's glorious power to your self willed power.

Paul, in 1 Thessalonians, is in accord with Lord Jesus speaking to all believers in all time when the Word says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Behold, the Way (John 14:6) is Jesus choosing people unto salvation - not people choosing Jesus.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

That refers to grace and salvation, not faith. Grace is what allowed us to choose God. Through faith, which we must provide. God doesn't believe in himself for us. That's absurd.

Blind fools claim words are not in scripture when the words are in scripture.

Paul refers to faith/belief there because Paul WROTE "FAITH" in direct relation to faith being not of man but truly the work of God in man with "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work" (Ephesians 2:8-10).

The word of Renniks is ""by grace you have been saved; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are not His work because faith is outside the scope of the gift of God" (see post 1178 quoted above).


BEHOLD, "WE ARE HIS WORK" (EPHESIANS 2:10) THUS BELIEF IN BELIEVERS IS GOD'S WORK IN SAID BELIEVERS, NOT MAN’S WORK OF CHOOSING GOD, BUT EXCLUSIVELY GOD'S POWER MANIFEST IN GOD'S CHOSEN PERSONS UNTO GOD'S GLORY!

Your purported "I chose to believe in Jesus" is boasting.

Still, Paul is in accord with Jesus the Word of God saying "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Furthermore, Paul is in accord with the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

This relates to the fact that the Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

Adam having a free-will would mean that Adam had a key to thwart God's plan, yet the Truth (John 14:6) is that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so Adam had no such key, that is, free-will choice. This accords with Paul's writing in Romans 8:20-22 mentioned above.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Taken]

"Kermos....None of the Scripture that you cite accurately states that man can choose God.”

I chose God.

1 Thes 1: [4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

And you, obviously have not chosen God, since you have made, umpteen posts of your own freewill, saying you have no freewill to choose God.

 

[Kermos]

Scripture DOES NOT NEED TO EXPRESSLY use the WORDS...

Man has Freewill.


Anyone with an ounce of gray matter, CAN plainly READ all throughout Scripture Men of their own Freewill Freely Make their own Choices.


Anyone with an ounce of gray matter, CAN plainly KNOW every time they Decide and Choose to DO as they WILL, they are exercising Their own Freewill.


Now since YOU CLAIM YOU DO NOT HAVE FREEWILL.....

Share with us...

WHO makes you sit and write the Words THEY TELL YOU TO Write?




That is False. You have been Clearly Quoted Scripture of men exercising their own Freewill, making their own choices.


Not anyones’ responsibility to UNDERSTAND FOR YOU.

So says the person who openly admits before everyone of the self willed evil deed of adulterating the Word of God as recorded in this post! Self willed people revile the kingdom of heaven by adulterating scripture to conform to their non-god idol (2 Peter 2:9-10). One who adulterates the Word of God is an intrinsically dangerous and unreliable source (Psalm 1:1), so such a one has a corruptly evil will that is not a friend of Righteousness (2 John 1:10).

So says the person who cannot produce a single scripture that states man has a free will.

So says the person who speaks directly against the Apostle Paul who wrote that there is no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), because Paul conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Renniks]

Blind fools claim words are not in scripture when the words are in scripture.

I assume you look in the mirror while you say that.

 

[Taken]

Some people are so ignorant, I would guess their hope is in modern science perfecting brain transplant trials, and they be a candidate for such trial, so that while they are deciding of their own freewill what to say and write, they would be able to come to the valid conclusion they are exercising their own freewill.

Meantime IGNORE is my own option to exercise my own freewill.
CLICK!

 

[Kermos]

Facepalm!

So Jesus was actually mad at himself for not making them willing!?

Lol, oh what a tangled web we weave when we are decieved!

You really like to add to the Word of God, Renniks, let's just take a look based on your posts about this verse alone.

Lord Jesus doesn't direct anger at Himself nor the killer's children, but the Lord does declare the rebelliousness of the self willed killers of the prophets with "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing" (Matthew 23:37).

Now, based on your posts, your heart declares "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you chose not to be willing even though in your freewill you were capable of choosing to be willing" (the word of Renniks).

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

God used the people of Jerusalem to show Jesus to the world.

The people of Jerusalem were a testament to God's control of people for we have an Apostolic prayer about this very matter and what happened in Jerusalem shortly after Jesus said "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem".

"O Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them, who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,

'Why did the Gentiles rage,

And the peoples devise futile things?

'The kings of the earth took their stand,

And the rulers were gathered together

Against the Lord and against His Christ.'

For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus." (Acts 4:24-30, the Apostle Peter and the Apostle John and the Assembly of God were together when they lifted their voices to God with one accord).

And not long after the crucifixion of Jesus, we find the mighty Lord Jesus pouring out the Holy Spirit on persons chosen by God to be children of God in Jerusalem, yes Jerusalem (see the word "received" in Acts 2:41).

"So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls" (Acts 2:41).

That is a blessed loving work of Jesus that Lord Jesus did there and there.

Now, let's look at you, in effect, promoting that Jesus must behave according to your demands for His behavior (see your semi question in your post quoted above).

Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).

Immediately after writing that God is in control Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides the fault question.

Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.

Bringing these together:

Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "then, 'Only God can obey himself in your theology. They are just puppets for who resists His will?'" (the book of Second Guessing 9:18, everything from "Only" to "puppets" is verbatim from one of your free-willian posts to me, and the words fit very well within the Romans 9:19 context).

The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free will.

Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.

Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).

The "you" mocking is certain because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (Romans 9:20)

See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about fault and about God's will (in Romans 9:19).

Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.

The thing molded represents the "you".

The Molder represents God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!

Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" as adversary against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to free-willians based upon the content of free-willian philosophical writings.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.