Was James confused?

[Richard_oti]

Mathew 5:19

New International Version
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I have noticed that you quote this a lot in support. But also notice the part that I made "least". Which begs the question IMO: What would be considered the "least" of "commands". It does state however, they shall be called "least" IN the kingdom, not that they are excluded from the kingdom.

Please note, that it is not my intent to pick on you. Only to bring things to "light".

 

[mjrhealth]

You haven't posted a verse that says the law has been done away with.
So this means the law still exists and we are to OBEY the law, as God would want us to.

No one said it has, we are just no longer condemned by it, that bit about those who are in Christ Jesus and walk after the Spirit.

As to my stopping persons from entering because of the laws:
WHICH laws would those be?

Well actually all of them.. When you "demand" that people keep teh law, which they cannot, and they fail they get filled with Guilt, that guilt comes from condemnation which comes from breaking the law, and since teh law has condemned them for they chose it, they have no grace. You know the price for breaking teh law, any law is death. So you insist that Jesus keep going back onto that cross to repay teh debt for you...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

which christians do more oft than not.

 

[GodsGrace]

@mjrhealth

In post 694, you said this:

Actually yes I do, that bit about my sheep, and as for the law being abolished, this is not what that is about, the law is good, it is there for teh sinners to give them rules to govern them which they break everyday, in deed and thought.

Since you, mj, keep scolding me for trying to be perfect...
It must mean that you believe YOU are a Sinner.

According to what you've written above, if You are a sinner, then the law is for You.

Your understanding of scripture is really in need of some improvement.

 

[GodsGrace]

No one said it has, we are just no longer condemned by it, that bit about those who are in Christ Jesus and walk after the Spirit.

Jesus said He did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
NASB

The question becomes HOW did Jesus save the world?
By dying for it?
By dying for everyone or only those who desire to follow Him?
If you wish to follow Jesus you must follow the commands He left you with.

You might want to start with the Beatitudes in Mathew 5 since they explain very well the way Jesus would like us to behave toward one another. He also said that if we are His disciples the world would know it by our love for each other. I see very little love in you.

Well actually all of them.. When you "demand" that people keep teh law, which they cannot, and they fail they get filled with Guilt, that guilt comes from condemnation which comes from breaking the law, and since teh law has condemned them for they chose it, they have no grace. You know the price for breaking teh law, any law is death. So you insist that Jesus keep going back onto that cross to repay teh debt for you...

Since you can't find a verse confirming that the law has been abolished, you now claim we are no longer condemned by it. We are no longer condemned by it if you are a disciple of Christ. Being a disciple means you want to do as Jesus, your teacher, did. He followed every law.
Or are you saying to new believers that it's OK to steal, kill, lie, disrespect, covet, etc.? Can they only get into the Kingdom if they DON'T follow the law?

If breaking any law is death, why would you encourage anyone to break the law?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

which christians do more oft than not.

Look at you...
You just quoted verses that prove my point.

Thanks.
Let's live in the Kingdom and NOT fall away by sinning willfully.
Hebrews 10:26

 

[GodsGrace]

I have noticed that you quote this a lot in support. But also notice the part that I made "least". Which begs the question IMO: What would be considered the "least" of "commands". It does state however, they shall be called "least" IN the kingdom, not that they are excluded from the kingdom.

Please note, that it is not my intent to pick on you. Only to bring things to "light".

There would be much to say.
Do sins have grades?
Is some sin greater than another sin?
We know that there is the unforgiveable sin: The blaspheming of the Holy Spirit - or denying Jesus.

1 Peter 1:16-17 tell us that we should be holy as the Father is holy. And that we should conduct ourselves in fear (respect) toward God while we are on THE EARTH.

We could understand the "annulling of the least of these commandments" in two ways:
One is to believe that there are grades to sin. Stealing is less than murder.
Another is to believe that when one continually sins there comes a time when that sin annuls the commandment and is no longer forgiveable.

In Mathew 5:19 Jesus speaks of the KINGDOM OF GOD.
Where is that Kingdom?
When we go through the N.T. we find that the terms:
Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are used interchangeably.
We know that the Kingdom of God starts here on earth because Jesus preached how we are to behave HERE, in the Kingdom of God, which begins on earth. As Peter said, we are to respect God while here on earth.

But in Mathew 5:19 Jesus clearly means that those who teach to annul the commandments will be the least here ON EARTH, in the Kingdom of God,

But Jesus also goes on to say in
Mathew 5:20 that unless our righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees, we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
In THIS CASE, I believe He means HEAVEN.

My last paragraph would have answered your question, but I thought I'd also say that, as we know, the Kingdom does begin here on earth and if we wish to be a member of that Kingdom, we have to abide by its rules. Which would be the rules Jesus left us with.

 

[H. Richard]

There would be much to say.
Do sins have grades?
Is some sin greater than another sin?
We know that there is the unforgiveable sin: The blaspheming of the Holy Spirit - or denying Jesus.

1 Peter 1:16-17 tell us that we should be holy as the Father is holy. And that we should conduct ourselves in fear (respect) toward God while we are on THE EARTH.

We could understand the "annulling of the least of these commandments" in two ways:
One is to believe that there are grades to sin. Stealing is less than murder.
Another is to believe that when one continually sins there comes a time when that sin annuls the commandment and is no longer forgiveable.

In Mathew 5:19 Jesus speaks of the KINGDOM OF GOD.
Where is that Kingdom?
When we go through the N.T. we find that the terms:
Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are used interchangeably.
We know that the Kingdom of God starts here on earth because Jesus preached how we are to behave HERE, in the Kingdom of God, which begins on earth. As Peter said, we are to respect God while here on earth.

But in Mathew 5:19 Jesus clearly means that those who teach to annul the commandments will be the least here ON EARTH, in the Kingdom of God,

But Jesus also goes on to say in
Mathew 5:20 that unless our righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees, we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
In THIS CASE, I believe He means HEAVEN.

My last paragraph would have answered your question, but I thought I'd also say that, as we know, the Kingdom does begin here on earth and if we wish to be a member of that Kingdom, we have to abide by its rules. Which would be the rules Jesus left us with.

***

And all of this is based on what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law of Moses.. Jesus, by His own words, said He only came to the """LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL"". But you say He came to all and the church should do as He says. Looks to me like you are saying Jesus lied.

 

[bbyrd009]

They might also want to try what Paul says regarding obedience here:
I doubt there'll be an answer...

ha, ICUC2 lol

 

[bbyrd009]

It does state however, they shall be called "least" IN the kingdom, not that they are excluded from the kingdom.

wow, deju vu! Pretty weird, that, ya.

 

[H. Richard]

@mjrhealth

In post 694, you said this:

Actually yes I do, that bit about my sheep, and as for the law being abolished, this is not what that is about, the law is good, it is there for teh sinners to give them rules to govern them which they break everyday, in deed and thought.

Since you, mj, keep scolding me for trying to be perfect...
It must mean that you believe YOU are a Sinner.

According to what you've written above, if You are a sinner, then the law is for You.

Your understanding of scripture is really in need of some improvement.

***

So does yours. Since you think you are perfect and are not s sinner like everyone else and are keeping the law (Jesus' commandments) then you don't need the shed blood to pay for your sins since you don't think you have any.

Gal 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
NKJV

Again you make the scriptures to be lies.

 

[bbyrd009]

look, we won't get anywhere calling each other liar ok, i doubt you are lying, even as i see you avoiding questions, etc. you are defending your beliefs, fighting Cognitive Dissonance prolly, just like we all more or less are.

it pays to detach yourself from your opinions/beliefs, and recog that they are what will change as you mature imo
i guess that usually happens about the same time you man up, and stop ignoring difficult questions in posts

 

[GodsGrace]

***

And all of this is based on what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law of Moses.. Jesus, by His own words, said He only came to the """LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL"". But you say He came to all and the church should do as He says. Looks to me like you are saying Jesus lied.

Yes. You are also in need of understanding scripture.
Do you understand that we, as Christians, (gentiles) have been grafted into the vine that is Jesus.

What does that mean to you? (can I expect an answer or some more scolding)

Do you think Jesus spoke ONLY to the Jewish nation?
Who was He talking about here:
John 10:16

And who was He talking about here:
John 12:46

Have you studied the covenants, by any chance?
Abraham was promised something by God...
That He would be the Father of many nations.

The Davidic Covenant:
The Son would be the King of many nations, of the whole world.
I do believe the Davidic Covenant was speaking about the coming Messiah.
So who is this speaking to?:
John 12:49-50

If Jesus is speaking the words of the Father,
and the Father made the promises to Abraham and David,
then the words of Jesus, the awaited Messiah are for EVERYONE in the world.
John 3:16

Now, if you belong to a church, and you are not following JESUS,
WHO are you following??

IF you are following Jesus, then you must absolutely adhere to all that He said. It's for everyone, just as He said.

There is only ONE church.
Ephesians 2:14

And while you're at it, also check out,
Mathew 25:32

Please explain how you understand the above verses.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

***

So does yours. Since you think you are perfect and are not s sinner like everyone else and are keeping the law (Jesus' commandments) then you don't need the shed blood to pay for your sins since you don't think you have any.

Gal 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
NKJV

Again you make the scriptures to be lies.

Could you please explain Galatians 3:21-22 so that I could answer you?
Thanks.

 

[bbyrd009]

@H. Richard , you might respond to this to clarify what you mean about James perhaps? I would ask @Armadillo how this fits into his dogma, too.

^

 

[bbyrd009]

Could you please explain Galatians 3:21-22 so that I could answer you?
Thanks.

prolly not i guess, and imo we are seeing how satan's dialectic works in these; just ignore the questions that are too pointed, and do not read or even acknowledge the Scriptures that cause any CogDis.

 

[GodsGrace]

prolly not i guess, and imo we are seeing how satan's dialectic works in these; just ignore the questions that are too pointed, and do not read or even acknowledge the Scriptures that cause any CogDis.

I really would like to know how Galatians 3 is understood by him.
It would be nice.

 

[bbyrd009]

and now, being as how they are still both onsite, maybe "resist the devil and he will flee."

 

[bbyrd009]

I really would like to know how Galatians 3 is understood by him.
It would be nice.

hmm. imo the silence speaks for itself here i guess. If he is going to dodge every time the obvious is pointed out, that is the answer to his understanding. Satan has left the building here, iow. Meaning "adversary" in this case of course.

 

[Armadillo]

prolly not i guess, and imo we are seeing how satan's dialectic works in these; just ignore the questions that are too pointed, and do not read or even acknowledge the Scriptures that cause any CogDis.

Your desperation is showing.

 

[Armadillo]

and now, being as how they are still both onsite, maybe "resist the devil and he will flee."

I don't think you're going anywhere.

 

[Armadillo]

Satan has left the building here

Desperate times call for desperate measures.