Was Jesus a 'created being?'

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face2face

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19 “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

You have done what every other person here who is trying to prove the Trinity does when quoting scripture. You read John 2:19 as if Jesus is saying he would raise himself from the grave, even though you know he was dead and buried. Now this is not the intended meaning, as we clearly read from the Acts of the Apostles that God Himself raised His son (Acts 2:24; Acts 3:15; Acts 4:10; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30; Acts 13:34; Romans 4:24; Galatians 1:1; 1 Peter 1:21).

So, how can Jesus speak with this type of confidence?

Read John 10:17-18

Who gave Jesus the moral guarantee that he would be raised?
 

stunnedbygrace

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You have done what every other person here who is trying to prove the Trinity does when quoting scripture. You read John 2:19 as if Jesus is saying he would raise himself from the grave, even though you know he was dead and buried. Now this is not the intended meaning, as we clearly read from the Acts of the Apostles that God Himself raised His son (Acts 2:24; Acts 3:15; Acts 4:10; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30; Acts 13:34; Romans 4:24; Galatians 1:1; 1 Peter 1:21).

So, how can Jesus speak with this type of confidence?

Read John 10:17-18

Who gave Jesus the moral guarantee that he would be raised?

I do not cling to the doctrine of trinity so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say there. It is not as harmful as many other doctrines, and I don’t think it will ultimately keep men from pressing forward, but here is a trustworthy statement from our Lords own mouth: 19 “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
 

face2face

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I do not cling to the doctrine of trinity so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say there. It is not as harmful as many other doctrines, and I don’t think it will ultimately keep men from pressing forward, but here is a trustworthy statement from our Lords own mouth: 19 “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Would you ignore the Masters words concerning his Fathers commandment? Yet God alone did this wonderful thing 1 Peter 1:21

who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.

2 points of interest here:

1. God raised Jesus from the dead - the moral guarantee was trusted upon because God is Righteous
2. Jesus did not pre exist nor did he have any Glory before his birth - it was given to Christ by God his Father.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Oh blech! I’m done with this. I don’t know what kind of stronghold it is that causes people to see only half of the verses. I don’t know if it means they haven’t received the Holy Spirit or if they have but a denomination has held them back from seeing them or what, but I think I have to just be done with it.
 

face2face

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Oh blech! I’m done with this. I don’t know what kind of stronghold it is that causes people to see only half of the verses. I don’t know if it means they haven’t received the Holy Spirit or if they have but a denomination has held them back from seeing them or what, but I think I have to just be done with it.
You read his words literally like so many do, add to this the notion of Jesus raising himself while dead and ignore John 10:17-18 you end at a wrong understanding of his words. I provided you all the verses which clearly state God raised Jesus from the dead but somehow I perceive you will persist...am I wrong?
 

face2face

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Psalms 119:130 try it...

Here is the lesson of John 2:19

The Jews: Their disobedience destroyed their temple(Hieron)
Jesus Christ: His obedience raised the temple (Naos)

Try to be teachable even if you think you have the HS. Wisdom abounds.
 

Taken

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John 1 says of the Lord Jesus: "Without Him was not anything made that was made". He is gloriously the Creator and not the created.

Correct. Yes. Amen.

The Word of God came forth out from Gods Mouth and SAID...
Gen 1
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4,000 years later we learn the Name God has given His Word.

We learn Gods (ideas, power, mind/hearts thoughts) will “make” manKIND.
Gen 1
[26] And God said, Let (us) make man in (our) image, after (our) likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 2
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
 

EloyCraft

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Theology surrounding Jesus' humanity uniting to the substance of God's uncreated being. Christ's s humanity is conceived in time. At the instant His human soul is created it is assumed to His divinity and eternity enters time and history. When He is resurrected He returns to the eternal moment with no beginning or end. His natural home that has no before or after and all time and creation is present .
It's true the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.
 

XFire

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This question touches on two important matters ‘is Jesus is eternal?’ or ‘was Jesus created by God for the forgiveness of mankind’s sins?’

The brief answer is that Jesus is not a created being, but He existed from eternity along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.


Although this answer might be familiar to most Christians, it is essential to note that there is opposition from those who claim the contrary.

One of the verses wrongly used to support claims that Jesus was created is the following:

Colossians 1:15 (NIV)

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

In the above verse, the word “firstborn” has been incorrectly interpreted out of context by some to state that God created Jesus. But, let’s look at another verse to validate the use of the word “firstborn”;

Psalm 87:27 (NIV)

And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

This verse addresses King David as the firstborn son of Jesse, but was David actually Jesse’s firstborn son? No, he was the last born son.

So why does the verse in Psalms refer to him as a firstborn? It is the same reason it relates to Jesus as the firstborn Son of God – it refers to Him as the pre-eminent or the distinguished Son.

Likewise, in the Colossians verse above, the Greek word used is ‘Prototokos’ which means pre-eminent / distinguished, and when used in context, literally means ‘First in rank.’

While writing Colossians, if Paul wanted to call Jesus a ‘created being,’ he would have used the word for Jesus “Protoktistos,” which Greek scholars mention can be translated as ‘founded’ or ‘first created.’

Additionally, if we continue to read the following verses in Corinthians, Paul declares ‘Jesus was before all things’ meaning before creation itself:

Colossians 1:17 (NIV)

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Jesus often spoke of His unique origin of having pre-existed in heaven before coming into this world. Here are some clear examples found in scripture.

To the hostile Jews, Jesus declared that there was a distinction between Him and them;

John 8:23 (NKJV)

And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above.

You are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jesus also makes His heavenly origin when He addresses His disciples;

John 6:62 (NKJV)

What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend

where He was before?




John 16:28 (NKJV)

I came forth from the Father and have come into the world.

Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

In His high priestly prayer, Jesus also spoke of the glory He had with the Father before the world existed.

John 17:5 (NKJV)

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,

with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

We also have a clear statement from apostle John in his book where he refers to Jesus as the preexistent God who created all things:

John 1:3 (NKJV)

All things were made through Him,

and without Him nothing was made that was made.

In conclusion, Jesus is NOT a created being.

He existed from eternity, and at the appointed time, He chose to come down to earth for the redemption of mankind so that we could be saved from the clutches of sin.

THROUGH HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE; WITHOUT HIM NOTHING WAS MADE THAT HAS BEEN MADE.
JOHN 1:3 (NIV)
Wow. Let's see.
Rev 1.1. Jesus states these are his words he gives to John. Then in rev 3.14. Jesus himself states that he is the first creation of God.

Again. Why do we make God in our image. A lot of us are dads and a lot of us wish our children were more like us. Jesus is like God. The express image. Why can't we come to the unity of the faith and just believe.
Stop worrying about who we think he is and believe that he is. Christian: do the works that Christ did and more!!!!
Prove your belief in things that mean you are like the one you say you belive in.

Love avalith many sins. Stop bickering and love.