Was Mary sinless?

[Foreigner]

BA - that is all i am saying. we agree. Mary needed a savior just like we all do.

-- Dishonesty by ommision is still dishonesty. No, that is not "all you are saying."

You also said, "The Catholic Church teaches that Mary needed a savior just like the rest of us, but that she was also free of personal sin, just like many other people.

As you yourself have pointed out, just because the Catholic Church declares something as right, doesn't make it so.

You feel qualified to pick and choose which Catholic standards are to be supported and and which aren't (you support Gay Marraige AND Abortion, both which are called sins and unsupported by the Catholic Church)....yet you are going to sell the idea of Catholic teaching as 'proof' that Mary was sinless.

Comical.

 

[101G]

this passage of scripture, in time past intrigue me. if all was so lost, why did Jesus had to seek ones to be saved.

Luke 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost". I thought we "ALL" was "LOST?", so why seek?.

but the apostle sheded some light on this matter, Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy".

well I have a question, Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin".
if Mary keep the Law then she would be guilty. but there MUST BE SOMETHING more than keeping the LAW. lets see, Micah 6:7 "Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?" THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION, NOW THE ANSWER. 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?". well, well, well, the answer in a nutshell.

now, lets re-look at Mary, Luke 1:26 "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women".

was not his GRACE/FAVOR found in Mary, Just as us today, even she was under the old Covenant, WITH THE "LAW".

 

[Raeneske]

Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".

only death passed on, because sin was in the world.

Why did you stop underlining there? It said those that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams transgression. Ie - not the way Adam sinned. Keep reading, don't stop dead in the middle of a sentence, that's how things get pulled out of context.

 

[Mungo]

She was merely human. She was no different than any other woman.

Rather like Jesus was no different from any other man?

 

[101G]

Romans 5:15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

 

[Raeneske]

Romans 5:15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

I have not the slightest what you are trying to say...

Rather like Jesus was no different from any other man?

Jesus was God made flesh. Flesh in every single way as us. Only difference is, He resisted temptation %100 of the time. Never failed, our Saviour.

 

[101G]

did sin passed or death?

 

[Raeneske]

did sin passed or death?

The passage explains how death was passed to every single human being, although we did not sin after the same fashion that Adam had. It does not say they did not sin, its that Adams sin is different from the sins you and I commit. For example, some murder, and some rape. Different sins, but still sin all the same.

 

[101G]

It does not say they did not sin, neither did it say that they did.

 

[Raeneske]

It does not say they did not sin, neither did it say that they did.

What it says it, they did not sin after the similitude of Adams transgression. What it also says in other areas is that all have sinned, and all come short of the glory of God. By looking in many areas in Scripture, we can conclude that all sin. When given the chance to life, to live, all will choose sin. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The only exception is Jesus Christ.

 

[101G]

What it also says in other areas is that all have sinned
is that all "qualified", to mean every?

 

[Raeneske]

What it also says in other areas is that all have sinned
is that all "qualified", to mean every?

The only exception, was Jesus Christ. Thus it can say all, with the knowledge that only One would come as a sinless being. All, when given the chance to life, choose sin. Period.

 

[101G]

The only exception, was Jesus Christ
so then all don't mean every, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". so only DEATH passed on to men.

 

[Raeneske]

The only exception, was Jesus Christ
so then all don't mean every, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". so only DEATH passed on to men.

First, all does mean every, except for the only exception. There can be no mistake in those words. If they only meant most, they would have said most. But he said ALL, proving that overwhelmingly there is not a single person who does not sin. Even Solomon said there is not a man who does not sin. Every single human being sins. The only exception was the fully human, fully God, being named Jesus Christ. There is no other exception found throughout Scripture.

Also, idk if you're Catholic, I'm assuming from your answers, but you just proved original sin wrong. Sin cannot pass onto someone. You bear your own iniquity. Death, and the sinful nature just get passed on. But that's another topic for another time.

Right now, is getting you to understand ALL, means every single man and woman has sinned. You can only find one exception. You can also find that it states that if any claim they have not sinned, they are a liar. Whether it is a church proposing someone has not sinned who was not Christ, or themselves boasting of sinlessness. They're liars, plain and simple.

 

[101G]

2 Raeneske
do this apply to "EVERY" man Yes or No?
Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin".

 

[Raeneske]

2 Raeneske
do this apply to "EVERY" man Yes or No?
Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin".

It applies to EVERY MAN, not a single man will be justified by his deeds.

 

[101G]

I asked do this apply to "Every man" regardless of DEED or not.

one must understand that this book was written to those in Rome

 

[Raeneske]

I asked do this apply to "Every man" regardless of DEED or not.

Bear with me, I'm having difficulty understanding your questions.

When it states every man, it applies to every man, except Jesus Christ. Scripture explains in numerous areas, the only exception was Jesus Christ. Essentially, if Scripture wanted to make that statement one little paragraph, it would be summarized to say, "For all have sinned, except our Saviour Jesus Christ, who will reconcile us with God. All have come short of the glory of God, thus God veiled His glory in likeness of sinful flesh, and became our perfect redeemer." Don't take one verse and try to stick something in it which doesn't belong, like Mary was sinless. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it share of any sinlessness of Mary.

 

[101G]

did I say Mary was sinless? re-read my posts. I made the Point that DEATH passed onto men. re-read my posts.

What it also says in other areas is that all have sinned
All or EVERY?

 

[Raeneske]

did I say Mary was sinless? re-read my posts. I made the Point that DEATH passed onto men. re-read my posts.

Sorry, seemed like in your posts you were vouching for Mary and other supposed sinless human beings, other than Christ. As I said in my other post, I'm having difficulty understanding you. I apologize, and ask for your forgiveness.

Yes, you are right, death was passed onto men. I agree with that, nothing to disagree with there.