Was Nelson Mandela a Christian? Yes or No

[Webers_Home]

.
Practically any inspired person qualifies as a prophet. For example Abel was
a prophet (Luke 11:50-51) Abraham was a prophet (Gen 20:7) and even
sidewalk evangelists-- e.g. Jews For Jesus --are prophets. (Rev 19:10)

Now, a modern prophet may not be privy to all the names in the book of life;
but one thing he is privy to are those whose names aren't in the book because
the Lord's sheep not only know who their shepherd is, and follow him; but they
also know each other. How? Well; the Lord's sheep are marked, so to speak. If
you know what to look for, that mark is easy to spot.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Dodo_David]

. . . the Lord's sheep are marked, so to speak. If
you know what to look for, that mark is easy to spot.

Buen Camino
/

Let's cut to the chase ...

No, not that chase.

Now, where was I? Oh yeah...

A Christian is not going to Hell because that Christian doesn't believe the controversial doctrine of "Once saved always saved".

Thus, we can't use the OSAS doctrine as a litmus test to know who isn't going to Heaven.

Now, what are these alleged "marks" on the Lord's sheep? Belief in OSAS isn't one of them.

 

[Webers_Home]

Now, what are these alleged "marks" on the Lord's sheep?

It's commonly said that the best place to hide something is right out
in plain view. Well; the information you seek is located in post #15
and post #30

It's also commonly said that if you have to ask the price, you probably
can't afford it. Well; if you have to ask what marks out the Lord's
sheep, then you probably aren't his sheep; nor could you recognize
his sheep even if one lived right in your own home.

Buen Camino
/

 

[aspen]

Yeah, Mandela had communist leanings, early on in his activism, but he wasn't a communist dictator when he was elected President. It takes nothing away from his legacy or his faith in God.

 

[Dodo_David]

It's commonly said that the best place to hide something is right out
in plain view. Well; the information you seek is located in post #15
and post #30

Those posts are cryptic in meaning.

It's also commonly said that if you have to ask the price, you probably
can't afford it. Well; if you have to ask what marks out the Lord's
sheep, then you probably aren't his sheep; nor could you recognize
his sheep even if one lived right in your own home.

Buen Camino
/

In His parable of the sheep and goats, the LORD Jesus describes the behavior that His sheep will display.

In Galatians 5, the Apostle Paul describes the spiritual fruit that Christians will display.

1 John 3:23-24 (ESV) states the following:

And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Now, what other marks do you believe that a Christian must have in order to go to Heaven?

 

[aspen]

I reject the idea that you have to 'trust' in Jesus to be saved from a bloodthirsty, Father-God. Jesus came to tell us that God loves us and wants to be in relationship with us - we are the ones that are unable to get past the guilt, shame, and death that resulted from the Fall. Jesus went so far to tell us about the love of His Father that He gave up His perfect life for us......in essence, He loved us unto death. Because of His ministry and message, He showed us that the Love of the Father will overcome all the results of the Fall and He will be faithful - His Love and Forgiveness is stronger than anything we give up for others......even unto death.

 

[Dodo_David]

I reject the idea that you have to 'trust' in Jesus to be saved from a bloodthirsty, Father-God. Jesus came to tell us that God loves us and wants to be in relationship with us - we are the ones that are unable to get past the guilt, shame, and death that resulted from the Fall. Jesus went so far to tell us about the love of His Father that He gave up His perfect life for us......in essence, He loved us unto death. Because of His ministry and message, He showed us that the Love of the Father will overcome all the results of the Fall and He will be faithful - His Love and Forgiveness is stronger than anything we give up for others......even unto death.

Huh?

 

[aspen]

Huh?

How am I supposed to respond to this post?

 

[lforrest]

Its really none of my business if he was or wasn't

 

[Dodo_David]

I once read a commentary in which someone claimed that Nelson Mandela was going to Hell because he was a Methodist.
Of course such a claim is false.

 

[Webers_Home]

Thus, we can't use the OSAS doctrine as a litmus test to know who isn't going to Heaven.

The OSAS controversy is actually kind of humorous. The anti-OSAS crowd
has plenty of verses to support their position and refute the pro-OSAS
crowd; while the pro-OSAS crowd has plenty of its own verses to support their
position and refute the anti-OSAS crowd.

The location of the kingdom is another controversy that's actually kind of humorous.
The spiritual-kingdom crowd has their verses, and the physical-kingdom crowd has
their verses.

All of which goes to show that opposing sides of any controversial doctrine are adept
at making the Bible prove their side is right while proving the other guy's side is
wrong. (chuckle)

Those posts are cryptic in meaning.

While living in San Diego some years ago, I enjoyed beach combing at low
tide now and then looking for a little clam called a cockle. Well; one day a
man was watching me from a distance and came over to see what I was
doing. When I told him, he began looking for cockles too but complained
that he couldn't find any. Ironically, there was a cockle right by his foot on
the very spot where we were talking and he hadn't spotted it.

You see, at low tide the little bivalves leave just a bit of their shell protruding
above the sand, usually one end of the hinge so that they appear to be mooning
you, and being small clams to begin with, if you don't know what to look for;
you'll walk right by the little mooners without detecting their presence. Once I
showed the man what to look for, he had much better success.

Bottom line is: there's nothing cryptic about post #15 and post #30. The
markings of the Lord's sheep are staring you right in the face. The problem
is: you don't know what to look for.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Dodo_David]

What I find humorous is someone refusing to tell me what he believes are the marks of a Christian.

If you know what they are, then reveal them. Otherwise I have no reason to believe that you know what they are.

I, for one, know that the marks of a Christian are the behavior of the sheep in Matthew 25, the fruit of the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5, obeying the commandments in John 3:23-24, and the confession and belief in Romans 10:9-10.

 

[Webers_Home]

What I find humorous is someone refusing to tell me what he believes are the marks of
a Christian. If you know what they are, then reveal them.

The marks of what I believe to be a Christian are located in post #3

I, for one, know that the marks of a Christian are the behavior of the sheep in Matthew 25

I believe that there are two distinctly different breeds of sheep in the New
Testament. There's a generic breed of sheep depicted at Matt 25:31-46, and
there's the Lord's breed of sheep depicted at John 10:7-29.

I further believe that all the Lord's sheep are Christians, but according to
Matt 7:22-23, not every Christian is the Lord's sheep. In point of fact: many
are not the Lord's sheep; nor have they ever been the Lord's sheep though
they prophecy in his name, exorcise demons in his name, and accomplish
many wonderful works in his name.

Buen Camino
/

 

[DoUPray2]

Actually, Webers_Home, you did NOT state in post #3 what the marks were; you stated what Webster's Dictionary stated and that you, "voted YES because Webster's defines a Christian as: somebody who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ." Sorry but that means nothing on this forum!


2nd post.... (It wouldn't let me make a new one!)

I, for one, know that the marks of a Christian are the behavior of the sheep in Matthew 25, the fruit of the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5, obeying the commandments in John 3:23-24, and the confession and belief in Romans 10:9-10.

What are the marks of a true Christian? Well, that depends on who you ask, doesn't it?! Even though we should all agree, different denominations hold to different things and the one thing that I look to that you didn't list is Galatians 5:19-23 (ESV)

Jesus said (about false prophets) that, “You will KNOW them by their fruits,” but I don’t believe that sentence allows us to judge their eternally future.

And another point I'd like to make is about a person's walk... I am not the same Christian that I was when I was converted! And praise God for it!! LOL I didn't have many fruits and we all make mistakes and if anyone had judged me then (I'm sure they did), they would've banned me to hell right there! but praise His holy name, I have grown and matured after 35 years with the Lord and I believe THAT is the goal for each of us: to become more like Christ.

The fruit of the Spirit is not just for ourselves but we are to bestow those on others; love them, be gentle with them and have longsuffering with them while they, too, try to grow in Christ. Does that make sense? I'm hoping so!

God bless,
Lisa

 

[Dodo_David]

Actually, Webers_Home, you did NOT state in post #3 what the marks were; you stated what Webster's Dictionary stated and that you, "voted YES because Webster's defines a Christian as: somebody who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ." Sorry but that means nothing on this forum!


2nd post.... (It wouldn't let me make a new one!)


What are the marks of a true Christian? Well, that depends on who you ask, doesn't it?! Even though we should all agree, different denominations hold to different things and the one thing that I look to that you didn't list is Galatians 5:19-23 (ESV)

Jesus said (about false prophets) that, “You will KNOW them by their fruits,” but I don’t believe that sentence allows us to judge their eternally future.

And another point I'd like to make is about a person's walk... I am not the same Christian that I was when I was converted! And praise God for it!! LOL I didn't have many fruits and we all make mistakes and if anyone had judged me then (I'm sure they did), they would've banned me to hell right there! but praise His holy name, I have grown and matured after 35 years with the Lord and I believe THAT is the goal for each of us: to become more like Christ.

The fruit of the Spirit is not just for ourselves but we are to bestow those on others; love them, be gentle with them and have longsuffering with them while they, too, try to grow in Christ. Does that make sense? I'm hoping so!

God bless,
Lisa

Lisa, what you said makes sense to me. In my last post, I give examples of marks of a Christian.

Sure, those marks will be made more evident as people grow in the Christian faith.

Perhaps we should describe what aren't the marks of a Christian who is going to Heaven.

For example, it is nonsense to claim that a Christian must believe the doctrine "Once saved always saved" in order to go to Heaven.
The New Testament doesn't teach that belief in OSAS is required in order to enter Heaven.

 

[Webers_Home]

you, "voted YES because Webster's defines a Christian as: somebody who professes belief
in the teachings of Jesus Christ." Sorry but that means nothing on this forum!

Maybe Webster's definitions mean nothing to you; but your preferences
certainly don't dictate the preferences of the entire forum. Some of us rely
upon standards because without them, there's chaos. For example if I were
to start a thread with the question: "What is the Bible's definition of a
Christian" there would be any number of opinions posted on that thread and
people would be at each other's throats because one guy's opinion of what
he thinks is the Bible's definition of a Christian would condemn the guy who
thinks otherwise.

At least one "mark" that everyone agrees on, with the possible exception of
yourself of course, is that a Christian is someone who professes belief in the
teachings of Jesus Christ. I have no clue why you disagree with that
definition; but if you honestly feel that people who profess belief in the
teachings of Siddhartha Gautama and/or Charles Manson and David Koresh
are Christians, well; all I can say is: party on dude; and may the Force be
with you.

Buen Camino
/

 

[DoUPray2]

Lisa, what you said makes sense to me. In my last post, I give examples of marks of a Christian.

Sure, those marks will be made more evident as people grow in the Christian faith.

Perhaps we should describe what aren't the marks of a Christian who is going to Heaven.

For example, it is nonsense to claim that a Christian must believe the doctrine "Once saved always saved" in order to go to Heaven.
The New Testament doesn't teach that belief in OSAS is required in order to enter Heaven.

Agreed!! Nor does it teach that we must believe in the pre-tribulation rapture of the church or we must be King James Only to go to heaven!!! LOL (I'm sorry, a stroke of meanness hit me!!)

God bless,
Lisa

 

[veteran]

Russians offered support when nobody else did. When Mandela entered the fray they were already there supporting. You want him to oppose them and get support from......WHO exactly????? He had options of... ONE.

We know someone by their fruits. Tell me veteran how many did Mandela kill upon his release? He had the power to start a civil war. Everyone expected it. You really do need to think before you write. Your post above shows stupidity and ignorance. You think he won the nobel peace prize for his good looks?

I met him and nothing but humility, warmth and love oozed from his aura! racism = zero! Trust me all, he is definitely in heaven!

A good deal of winners of the Nobel prize are Leftist-thinking individuals, so winning that in my opinion only further supports the probability of Mandela's Leftist-leaning politics.

And trying to justify Mandela's actions by implying his turning to Communists was his only outlet for reform certainly is a Leftist 'guerilla' type view of politics also. But I don't expect today's younger generation to really understand how the theories and practices of Communism is anti-christ and anti-Christian, since today's school systems are soft on Communism also.

When world Communism finaly reaches its goal for their plan of a "one world government" in our near future, only then will many deceived but true followers of Christ begin to understand the difference. And Communism will take over, it's already in the final stages of taking over the traditional Christian West like they planned long ago. Then those wet-behind-the-ears will see how Communists truly operate, determining what rights a person and family can have, what kind of work they will do, where they will live, and any dissention with them will cause immediate imprisonment or even execution.

I am in agreement with DoUPray2.

Nobody on this side of the eternity can read which names are recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life (Revelation 20:15).

So, nobody on this side of eternity has the knowledge of exactly who will be in the Lake of Fire and who will be in Heaven.

The best that we can do is to examine the spiritual fruit that people were displaying at the time of their deaths.

That's right, so those who think discriminating the acts of someone's life here on earth is like trying to say God has condemned them is to put oneself in Christ's Judgment Seat.

Yet it still is a cheap ploy to even try and link discernment of Mandela's acts and politics with eternal condemnation that only God can know. That ploy is still not going to remove the politics Mandela held to, and the fact that they are anti-Christian politics.

 

[Elizabeth]

No, he wasn't a Christian. Nelson Mandela was one of the most ardent supporters of killing babies. He signed into law a bill legalizing abortion on demand.

Serving as the Republic of South Africa’s president from 1994-1999, Mandela not only signed the Choice on the Termination of Pregancy Act of 1996, he was also one of the most ardent supporters of what the openly pro-abortion Guttmacher Institute calls “one of the most liberal abortion laws in the world.”

As cited, the law “allows abortion on demand up to the 20th week; after it and up to birth for ‘serious medical reasons’; and, as amended in 2004, allows registered nurses and midwives to perform abortions as well before the 12th week.”…

Since the legalization of abortion in the RSA, there has been 1 million legal abortions reported to the government, with the overwhelming number being that of racially black African unborn children as cited by Spero News on Jan. 31, 2012.

I cannot get past this and cannot view Mandela as any other than a leader who engaged in mass genocide of his own innocent people.

Lifenews.com

 

[Suhar]

When world Communism finaly reaches its goal for their plan of a "one world government" in our near future, only then will many deceived but true followers of Christ begin to understand the difference. And Communism will take over, it's already in the final stages of taking over the traditional Christian West like they planned long ago. Then those wet-behind-the-ears will see how Communists truly operate, determining what rights a person and family can have, what kind of work they will do, where they will live, and any dissention with them will cause immediate imprisonment or even execution.

I grew up in USSR in a Christian family. Going to barely tolerated, severely restricted, constantly under surveilance church. Those were the “good times” of 1970s. Previous generation all did time in gulags just for being Christians. All pastors, deacons did several years it was just a price to pay, that was Soviet “normal” for a Christian. By the time my father became Christian jail time was not mandatory punishment he was only demoted from lead engineer with promising career to maintenance electrician.

Rabid hatred of religion, especially Christianity is ingrained into Communism, it is part of it’s “soul”. Anybody even remotely suggesting that Communist can be a Christian at the same time is just simply out of his/her mind!

General tolerance of Communism and it’s ideas is a death sentence to this country. Sentence that is being carried out as we speak.

I do not read links to other sites or unknown news agencies. Smoke and mirrors... :huh:

Like Huffington Post and New American? If you do not know those you must be living under some rather large rock.

More "unknown agencies"

Washington Times:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/6/bill-oreilly-reminds-nelson-mandela-was-communist/

Politifact:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/dec/11/bill-oreilly/bill-oreilly-says-nelson-mandela-was-communist/

Free republic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1255245/posts

Mandela even wrote a book titled: "How to be a good Communist"!!!!!! I mean, seriously how can you say that Mandela was not a Communist?