Was Nelson Mandela a Christian? Yes or No

[veteran]

It's really no use Historicist,

the well-informed majority here reading BearingTheTruth's words well know he is putting out propaganda in favor of Communist-Socialist ideology. I mean, to deny the atrocities upon the Russian peoples during early Communist Party rule like Lennin and Stalin is ludicrous, especially in light of Krushev's de-Stalinization after Stalin had died.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Marxism philosophy is for all citizens to be equal and have all things in common for the common good

Christians have done similar Acts 2:44

However:

-- Marxism does it for "The State" (absence of God)

-- Christians do it (because of God)

Big difference

 

[veteran]

Marxism philosophy is for all citizens to be equal and have all things in common for the common good

Christians have done similar Acts 2:44

However:

-- Marxism does it for "The State" (absence of God)

-- Christians do it (because of God)

Big difference

You're misinformed. The theories of Lennist-Marxist Communism have nothing to do with Christian doctrine from God's Word. Christian brethren sharing each other's needs and giving of alms to the poor is not Communism.

2 Cor 8:9-14
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that ye through His poverty might be rich.
10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
(KJV)

Apostle Paul was very specific that our giving was according to what "abundance" we have, and not to be a burden upon us so others might have it easy. Yet that's exactly what today's welfare-statism is about, actually stealing wealth from families who work hard so that others might have it easy and not have to work.

I'm all for helping the poor, and the handicapped and elderly who cannot work, that's what the welfare system is supposed to be for. But that is not always the case with nations that follow welfare Socialism. In contrast to Communism, you don't have property rights. The State determines what property rights you have. That is one of the ideas that makes Communist theory different than Christian doctrine from God's Word, for nowhere did Christ or His Apostles propose the giving up of those property rights given by God alone.

 

[BearingTheTruth]

It's really no use Historicist,the well-informed majority here reading BearingTheTruth's words well know he is putting out propaganda in favor of Communist-Socialist ideology.

What part of what I have said is misleading so that you can conclude it is propaganda?

Also notice how you have now resorted to fallacious scare tactics and bandwagon appeals attempting to manipulat those passively reading this discussion. Regardless of whether or not they agree with what I am saying or with what you're saying or neither - what do you think is a more honest method of discussion? Addressing the other individual point by point or simply attempting to manipulate readers into agreeing with you to make you feel like you have numbers on your side (another fallacy) while ignoring almost the entirety of what I've said thus far.

I mean, to deny the atrocities upon the Russian peoples during early Communist Party rule like Lennin and Stalin is ludicrous, especially in light of Krushev's de-Stalinization after Stalin had died.

Where did I deny this?

Instead of outright lieing why don't you answer the questions I asked?

Apostle Paul was very specific that our giving was according to what "abundance" we have, and not to be a burden upon us so others might have it easy. Yet that's exactly what today's welfare-statism is about, actually stealing wealth from families who work hard so that others might have it easy and not have to work.

YES! Precisely! Now you're getting it. You are describing capitalism. Absentee ownership of the means of production by individuals who profit off the labor of others. The entire system breeds and necessitates parasitism - you just blame the wrong people. Absentee property rights necessitates that a class of individuals is prevented free access to the means of production so that - through their own labor - they can provide for themselves. This is done at the benefit of the true parasites of society. The elite land owners. You're highlighting a systemic problem unique to capitalism.

I'm all for helping the poor, and the handicapped and elderly who cannot work, that's what the welfare system is supposed to be for. But that is not always the case with nations that follow welfare Socialism. In contrast to Communism, you don't have property rights. The State determines what property rights you have. That is one of the ideas that makes Communist theory different than Christian doctrine from God's Word, for nowhere did Christ or His Apostles propose the giving up of those property rights given by God alone.

You still fail to make clear what type of property theory you're even alluding to. Communist theory accepts property rights - just not those rights that benefit the few at the cost of the many like capitalism requires.

 

[Dodo_David]

This thread has strayed way off topic. So, I am locking it. If you want to discuss political systems, then do it in the appropriate forum.

 

[Angelina]

finally...