Was the Thief on the Cross Baptized or Not?

[Ernest T. Bass]

Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”

36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

1)
the Bible does not state specifically if the thief had ever been baptized or not, we can only speculate if he had been or not. He may have been of those in Mark 1:5 who were baptized but he later turned to a life of crime then finds himself repenting of his sins before Christ upon his cross. You cite Lk 23:40 and from this text we find the thief knew there is a God and God is to be feared, he knew Christ was an innocent man, he knew that Christ dying on the cross would not be the end of Christ for he knew Christ would have a kingdom and saw his need to be in that kingdom. We see the thief knew as much, if not more, about Christ than some of Christ's own disciples. It may have been the thief was once a disciple himself to explain his knowledge he had of Christ.

2)
Hebrews 3:15-17
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
The thief cannot be an example of NT gospel salvation for Christ must first have died before His NT would come into effect/be of force. The NT also requires one to be baptized into the death of Christ then one can walk in newness of life (Rom 6:3-5) and requires one to believe that God hath raised (past tense) Christ from the dead (Rom 10:9-10) all of which would be impossible for the thief for Christ had not yet died, much less raised from the dead, at the time Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise.

3)
Matt 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
When Christ was ON EARTH during His earthly ministry He had been given power to forgive the sins of those whom He thought was deserving as the thief. For anyone today to be saved in the same manner as the thief means one must invent a time machine to travel back in time about 2000 to when Christ was on earth, before the NT gospel was in force and be forgiven personally by Christ. Therefore no one today can be saved in the same like manner as the thief.

Considering the Bible does not specifically state the thief had not been baptized, that the thief lived before Acts 2:38, before the gospel came into force then the thief cannot be proof water baptism is not necessary in order to be saved. The thief cannot be accountable to Acts 2:38 having lived and died before it came into force, (see also Lk 24:47). Therefore no one can dogmatically say the thief for certain had never been baptized based upon a theological bias and nothing more.

 

[n2thelight]

You must not study the scriptures much. You sound like you have apathy towards obedience, a sure sign you've listened to doctrines of demons. Sort of a take it or leave it attitude.

Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Acts of the Apostles 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is for the purpose of being born again. Jesus said we MUST be born again.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The conditional action required on the part of a person to prevent him or her soul from perishing, is that his or her soul must "believeth in Him". The one that you believe in is Jesus Christ. All those that believe in Jesus Christ shall not be turned to ashes at judgment day, but shall have everlasting life. The word "everlasting" is better translated from the Greek text, "eternal", because eternal means "from the very beginning of creation of that soul, into the eons of infinity of time, there is no break".

What this is saying then, is that the person's soul would not die, but will live from the time that their soul was created in that first earth age, in the distant past, through this earth age, and right into eternity. There would never be any spots of void in the life of that soul. This eliminates the pagan worship of "soul sleep", such as those that teach that when you die, your soul stays in the ground until a so-called rapture. Their very tradition will lead them to the Antichrist in a short time ahead.

When you take the word "everlasting" as used in John 3:16, and go to Strong's Greek dictionary, # 166, we find, "Aion", "Perpetual, of past time, present and future, eternal, from beginning without end." If you believe on Christ, then you will never see nor taste of death, even when your soul sheds this decaying flesh body. There will be no soul sleep.

The serpent that Moses placed on the pole was an example to the Israelites to obey God, and they would be given life by their believing and obeying, and there were no side trips to perform. Jesus is telling us that this is exactly as it is with eternal life. The pole that we look to is the cross that Jesus Christ shed His blood on, and when we look to Him and accept that shed blood for our forgiveness, through repentance, then we have eternal life. When Nicodemus was talking with Jesus here, the crucifixion had not taken place, but Nicodemus would be one of the men that would prepare Christ's body for burial.

It is nice to be baptized because Christ was, but that is not what gives the eternal life. There is membership in the church, with all the other dos and don'ts it sets forth, but they have nothing to do with your eternal salvation. What is important is that you look to the cross that God's only begotten Son died upon, and believe on His only begotten Son, and friend, that is where eternal life comes from; believing in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son.
Don't let people rob you of the simplicity of God's Word, it is simply those that believe in Him and repented in Jesus name that shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Question , were those who were not baptised before Christ died on the cross not saved?

You say I don't study and yet you don't know what born again really means​

 

[Lambano]

But… I have been baptized multiple times, but it was into a specific church and had nothing to do with my salvation.

I've told this story before....

Ted taught my Sunday School class for a couple years. The subject was Baptism, and he said he'd been baptized four times: First as an infant in a Methodist church. Then he became a Baptist, and Baptists believe in Believer's Baptism, so he was baptized again. Then he went through a period where he thought the Catholic church was the only legitimate church, and they wouldn't recognize Protestant baptisms, so he got baptized as a Catholic. He got disillusioned with the RCC and left and got baptized again in some non-denominational church. In retrospect, he said, he didn't think any one of those baptisms did him any good. Right then, Buddy pipes up from the back of the classroom, "THAT'S BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HOLD YOU UNDER LONG ENOUGH!" Cracked us all up.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The conditional action required on the part of a person to prevent him or her soul from perishing, is that his or her soul must "believeth in Him". The one that you believe in is Jesus Christ. All those that believe in Jesus Christ shall not be turned to ashes at judgment day, but shall have everlasting life. The word "everlasting" is better translated from the Greek text, "eternal", because eternal means "from the very beginning of creation of that soul, into the eons of infinity of time, there is no break".

What this is saying then, is that the person's soul would not die, but will live from the time that their soul was created in that first earth age, in the distant past, through this earth age, and right into eternity. There would never be any spots of void in the life of that soul. This eliminates the pagan worship of "soul sleep", such as those that teach that when you die, your soul stays in the ground until a so-called rapture. Their very tradition will lead them to the Antichrist in a short time ahead.

When you take the word "everlasting" as used in John 3:16, and go to Strong's Greek dictionary, # 166, we find, "Aion", "Perpetual, of past time, present and future, eternal, from beginning without end." If you believe on Christ, then you will never see nor taste of death, even when your soul sheds this decaying flesh body. There will be no soul sleep.

The serpent that Moses placed on the pole was an example to the Israelites to obey God, and they would be given life by their believing and obeying, and there were no side trips to perform. Jesus is telling us that this is exactly as it is with eternal life. The pole that we look to is the cross that Jesus Christ shed His blood on, and when we look to Him and accept that shed blood for our forgiveness, through repentance, then we have eternal life. When Nicodemus was talking with Jesus here, the crucifixion had not taken place, but Nicodemus would be one of the men that would prepare Christ's body for burial.

It is nice to be baptized because Christ was, but that is not what gives the eternal life. There is membership in the church, with all the other dos and don'ts it sets forth, but they have nothing to do with your eternal salvation. What is important is that you look to the cross that God's only begotten Son died upon, and believe on His only begotten Son, and friend, that is where eternal life comes from; believing in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son.
Don't let people rob you of the simplicity of God's Word, it is simply those that believe in Him and repented in Jesus name that shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Question , were those who were not baptised before Christ died on the cross not saved?

You say I don't study and yet you don't know what born again really means​

Can those who refuse to repent of their sins be saved, (Rom 2:4-5; Luke 13:3; Acts 2:38; Acts 17:30; Acts 26:20)?

 

[Lambano]

Our repentant thief was obviously not baptized after his confession of his sin and his faith in Jesus; the Roman soldiers ain't letting him off that cross until he's dead, dead, dead. I suppose someone could postulate that the thief was baptized earlier, maybe by John the Baptist himself, and thus make a case for Infant Baptism.

My goodness, where in the world did we get this mechanical view of salvation?

Nah.

Jesus Christ is Lord of Salvation. All authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Him (Matthew 28:18). He is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25). He has the sovereign authority to save whomever He wants to save, baptized or unbaptized. Period. I hope everybody on this board knows this and believes this and understands this.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Our repentant thief was obviously not baptized after his confession of his sin and his faith in Jesus; the Roman soldiers ain't letting him off that cross until he's dead, dead, dead. I suppose someone could postulate that the thief was baptized earlier, maybe by John the Baptist himself, and thus make a case for Infant Baptism.

My goodness, where in the world did we get this mechanical view of salvation?

Nah.

Jesus Christ is Lord of Salvation. All authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Him (Matthew 28:18). He is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25). He has the sovereign authority to save whomever He wants to save, baptized or unbaptized. Period. I hope everybody on this board knows this and believes this and understands this.

Can one who refuses to repent be saved?

What proof is there the thief had never been baptized? (The anti water baptism argument hinges on this question else the whole 'thief argument' is based on biased assumption)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

In addressing the OP, baptism DOES NOT SAVE ANYONE EVER ! So it does not matter whether he was baptized.

1 Pet 3:21 baptism doth also now save us

Only by the blood of the lamb can a person be saved;
& Jesus Christ, God made flesh among man is the ONLY way for this to be accomplished!

Rev 1:5 the blood of Christ washes away sins
Jn 19:34 Christ shed His blood in His death
Rom 6:3-5 baptism is the means by which one gains entrance into the death of Christ where He shed His blood that washes away sins

By GRACE through FAITH, not of ourselves, but by his tender mercies which are NEW each day can we be saved.

Works of self-righteousness, traditions of man, means your outside cup may be clean but your inside is putrid, filthy & a stench in the nostrils of the creator, the " I AM" the 1st, the last and all that ever was or will be is our only hope. ALMIGHTY GOD !

Jesus said " TODAY ", and it was that very day!

Just as we are told " TODAY, IS THE DAY OF YOUR SALVATION "...... Come & let us reason together while it is called today !

submitting to water baptism is not a work of self-righteousness no more than repenting of sins or confessing with the mouth are works of self-righteousness. God has required repentance, confession and baptism to be saved therefore when one repents, confesses and is baptized one is doing GOD'S righteousness not his own righteousness. Those Jews in Rom 10:3 were lost for they went about doing their OWN righeousness and would not submit to GOD'S righteousness, they would not obey the gospel, v16.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”

36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

We can't know. The text doesn't say one way or the other.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My goodness, where in the world did we get this mechanical view of salvation?

We got that mechanical view of salvation from being tricked out of what is ours. Same way it happened with Adam and Eve. Once again, the woman that was taken from His side got tricked out of what was hers. So we can now see the spirit of that passage, which was always telling about spiritual things if you have the ear now to hear it.

The next question, which is the one everyone asks, is why haven’t we got to unity in the Spirit after 2000 years and how do we fix it, since we’ve tried just about everything. The answer is that it is impossible to save a business that’s almost bankrupt and dead without severe and austere restructuring. But if it is insisted by the board that yes, change is necessary but no restructuring can be done and it all has to be done as it always has been done by the board fathers (the idols of our fathers), of course the enterprise will go under.
Even entire countries will, by the men running them, try and try to not resort to severe and austere restructuring when they’re near death, but eventually, when it’s got bad enough, they will bend.

We keep insisting the problem is not in the articles/doctrines of incorporation. Therefore no amount of fixing works.
Its like saying, let’s everyone hop to and put out the fire burning our house down, but listen now, no one may use water to put it out. Also, if any man tries to convince anyone water is needed, he must be kicked out because he is trying to burn our house down.

 

[Gospel Believer]

I feel like we’re living in a simulation and I’m the only one seeing its not real…

I dont think that we agree on everything , but I MUST say that I love your wit! You remind me of me! Haha...

 

[Gospel Believer]

What if he was a thief, and them came across Jesus and believed, and was baptized before going to jail? Doesn't that baptism count?

You need to look at that thief's FRUIT. He had more faith than all the apostles put together, even asking a dying man to remember him when he comes into His Kingdom. That's even faith in the resurrection! They should have kicked Thomas out and let the thief take his place.

I disagree with you on the baptism thing, but you raised some good points about the REMARKABLE Faith of the repentant Thief....it has hit me before , but you never hear anybody talk about it....it is strange to me that everybody seems to miss this....the guy is a true “ Hero of Faith .....
Thomas May have been a bit if a “ dolt” , but let’s Thank God that He is patient with these types....God has been patient with lots of people worse than Thomas—- guys like me for instance.....

 

[Gospel Believer]

You must not study the scriptures much. You sound like you have apathy towards obedience, a sure sign you've listened to doctrines of demons. Sort of a take it or leave it attitude.

Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Acts of the Apostles 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is for the purpose of being born again. Jesus said we MUST be born again.

Acts is a transitional Book...ya gotta get past Acts 2 to fully get its message....getting the Holy Spirit indeed is the MUST.....Paul later in that Book shows that people had obtained that mandatory Spirit WITOUT being water baptized....by the end of the Book, Peter is in agreement with Paul....you can get that Spirit by Faith Alone....

 

[Jim B]

What if he was a thief, and them came across Jesus and believed, and was baptized before going to jail? Doesn't that baptism count?

You need to look at that thief's FRUIT. He had more faith than all the apostles put together, even asking a dying man to remember him when he comes into His Kingdom. That's even faith in the resurrection! They should have kicked Thomas out and let the thief take his place.

There is nothing in the Bible that verifies this speculative "what if...".

"They should have kicked Thomas out"? So Jesus was wrong??? Why do you disagree with His behavior?

John 20:27-28, "Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”. Apparently Jesus had more wisdom and compassion than you have.

 

[Jim B]

We got that mechanical view of salvation from being tricked out of what is ours. Same way it happened with Adam and Eve. Once again, the woman that was taken from His side got tricked out of what was hers. So we can now see the spirit of that passage, which was always telling about spiritual things if you have the ear now to hear it.

The next question, which is the one everyone asks, is why haven’t we got to unity in the Spirit after 2000 years and how do we fix it, since we’ve tried just about everything. The answer is that it is impossible to save a business that’s almost bankrupt and dead without severe and austere restructuring. But if it is insisted by the board that yes, change is necessary but no restructuring can be done and it all has to be done as it always has been done by the board fathers (the idols of our fathers), of course the enterprise will go under.
Even entire countries will, by the men running them, try and try to not resort to severe and austere restructuring when they’re near death, but eventually, when it’s got bad enough, they will bend.

We keep insisting the problem is not in the articles/doctrines of incorporation. Therefore no amount of fixing works.
Its like saying, let’s everyone hop to and put out the fire burning our house down, but listen now, no one may use water to put it out. Also, if any man tries to convince anyone water is needed, he must be kicked out because he is trying to burn our house down.

HUH??? You have gone so far away from discussing the subject of the OP -- whether the thief on the cross was baptized -- that it is bizarre.

 

[marks]

In addressing the OP, baptism DOES NOT SAVE ANYONE EVER ! So it does not matter whether he was baptized.

Only by the blood of the lamb can a person be saved;
& Jesus Christ, God made flesh among man is the ONLY way for this to be accomplished!

By GRACE through FAITH, not of ourselves, but by his tender mercies which are NEW each day can we be saved.

Works of self-righteousness, traditions of man, means your outside cup may be clean but your inside is putrid, filthy & a stench in the nostrils of the creator, the " I AM" the 1st, the last and all that ever was or will be is our only hope. ALMIGHTY GOD !

Jesus said " TODAY ", and it was that very day!

Just as we are told " TODAY, IS THE DAY OF YOUR SALVATION "...... Come & let us reason together while it is called today !

In fact we are not told whether he was water baptised. Perhaps he had been baptized by John, or by Jesus' disciples, we don't know.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is nothing in the Bible that verifies this speculative "what if...".

"They should have kicked Thomas out"? So Jesus was wrong??? Why do you disagree with His behavior?

John 20:27-28, "Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”. Apparently Jesus had more wisdom and compassion than you have.

Contrary to those who criticize Thomas, he did exactly as Jesus instructed.

Matthew 24:26 KJV
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Thomas refused to believe, exactly like Jesus told them.

Much love!

 

[Jim B]

Contrary to those who criticize Thomas, he did exactly as Jesus instructed.

Matthew 24:26 KJV
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Thomas refused to believe, exactly like Jesus told them.

Much love!

What??? Keep reading... "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Matthew 24:27 Taking Matthew 24:26 out of context and applying it to Thomas is a fine example of eisegesis!

 

[marks]

What??? Keep reading... "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Matthew 24:27 Taking Matthew 24:26 out of context and applying it to Thomas is a fine example of eisegesis!

How so? Was Jesus' instruction not clear somehow?

Much love!

 

[Jim B]

How so? Was Jesus' instruction not clear somehow?

Much love!

Jesus was clear ... about what He was discussing. You took a single verse out of context and applied it incorrectly to Thomas.

Matthew 24:15-28, "So when you see the desolating sacrilege, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains; the one on the housetop must not go down to take things from the house; the one in the field must not turn back to get a coat. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For at that time there will be great suffering, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no one would be saved, but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Messiah!’ or ‘There he is!’—do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Take note, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the eagles will gather."

Clearly this is about the end times. It has absolutely nothing to do with Thomas' doubts.

That is one of the problems with dividing Scripture into chapters and verses. Even though they are handy for reference, they often lead to misinterpretations. That is the case with your applying a single verse to Thomas.

 

[marks]

Jesus was clear ... about what He was discussing. You took a single verse out of context and applied it incorrectly to Thomas.

Matthew 24:15-28, "So when you see the desolating sacrilege, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains; the one on the housetop must not go down to take things from the house; the one in the field must not turn back to get a coat. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For at that time there will be great suffering, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no one would be saved, but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Messiah!’ or ‘There he is!’—do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Take note, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the eagles will gather."

Clearly this is about the end times. It has absolutely nothing to do with Thomas' doubts.

That is one of the problems with dividing Scripture into chapters and verses. Even though they are handy for reference, they often lead to misinterpretations. That is the case with your applying a single verse to Thomas.

But how is this eisegesis? It sounds like you've changed your complaint to using a verse out of context.

I'm pointing to a place where Jesus said that "if they tell you He is in the inner room don't believe it", and a place where Thomas was told Jesus had appeared in the inner room, and he didn't believe it. What am I reading into either verse?

I'm saying that Thomas may have been doing exactly what Jesus had said. This goes to his state of mind, which we don't know actually one way or the other, because it isn't told us in Scripture. However, I don't think we should just default to criticizing Thomas' faith, and especially when there is an alternate explanation.

It's common that people criticize Thomas this way, just like Peter also receives a lot of criticism, which is undue in my opinion.

Regardless, this is getting off-topic . . .

Much love!