WATER BAPTISM CAUSES DIVISIONS

[Adventageous]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found. Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

ROMANS 6 BY THE HOLY GHOST & PAUL

In Romans 6, it reads:

​

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?​

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?​

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​

The Holy Ghost (2 Tim. 3:16-17 KJB) by Paul compares baptism to burial in death, and burial (planting) of a seed, and the resurrection of coming up from death, or growing up out of the earth to newness of life. Now, when a person is buried, they are completely, or totally, buried (usually 6 feet down, with 6 being the number of man; Gen. 1:26-31 KJB), or submerged into the ground / earth / dirt, as also like a seed that is "planted" in the earth.

 

[Adventageous]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found. Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

COLOSSIANS 2 BY THE HOLY GHOST & PAUL

In Colossians 2, it reads:

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.​

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,;​

The Holy Ghost (2 Tim. 3:16-17 KJB) by Paul compares baptism to burial in death (even the burial of Jesus which was complete and whole of his entire body behind the earth, in a new tomb), and the resurrection of coming up from death, to newness of life. Now, when a person is buried, they are completely, or totally, buried (usually 6 feet down, with 6 being the number of man; Gen. 1:26-31 KJB), or submerged into the ground / earth / dirt, as also like a seed that is "planted" in the earth.

 

[Adventageous]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found. Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

2 PETER BY THE HOLY GHOST & PETER

In 2 Peter, it reads:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:​

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:​

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.​

The Holy Ghost by Peter equates the global immersion of the world by the flood of water in the days of Noah to the complete and total immersion of the world by fire at the Day of the LORD (2nd - 3rd Advents, 1000 year period; Rev. 20:1-7 KJB).

God, in Genesis did not just pour water on the earth, nor just sprinkle rain upon it. It was completely submerged by "much water" even covering the then highest mountains by 15 cubits. Likewise, in the Revelation God is not going to merely pour, or sprinkle fire upon the world, but is going to consume the entire earth by fire, until its entire surface is a "lake (sea) of fire", and nothing outside of the New Jerusalem (Ark) survives.

 

[Adventageous]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found. Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

This is the last, "I am finished":

Additional resources:

Video on water Baptism preparation and event - Amazing Facts Baptism Doug Batchelor : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Audio by Byron Spears, 'the walking Bible' - The Trumpet Of Truth Evangelistic Crusade Audio (made for video) by Byron Spears The Walking Bible : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Pocketbook - Amazing Facts Pocket Book Joe Crews Baptism Is It Really Necessary : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Baptism into Christ by the Holy Ghost - SDA Eric Wilson Our Baptism In Christ Jesus : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Video Example of actual Baptism of some of my friends - Oni & Emmely Baptism : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Thus "I am finished."

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul said there was a remnant of believers which I see as concerning the Gentiles who were grafted in to believing Israel. The Gentiles grafted in are those in Acts 10:45. Paul was skeaking to these Gentiles. NOT to those in the body of Christ

I'm sorry...you're going to have to provide scripture.

The remnant is referring to those that will always believe in God through any kind of tribulation (I don't mean end times tribulation).

For instance...there was always a remnant of Jews that survived the exiles and kept their faith in the God of Abraham..not all did thus the hatred for the Samarians.

In the Nt it can refer to both Jews or Gentiles.

Do you believe Luke 8:13 is only for the Jews?

13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

(some versions say tribulation....anything that would cause one to fall away).

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes
Its the same Jesus but what he would accomplish by his shed blood on the cross wasnt yet made known in John

You're saying Jesus didn't know He was going to die or why.

And I can't handle this one sentence thing.

You're addressing too many arguments at one time and each one would require more time to reply to.

JESUS KNEW He was going to die on the cross.
HE KNEW WHY.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course but God didnt reveal that til Paul where he was justified to forgive the past sins of Israel they committed in the old testament...........[Romans 3:25 KJV] "Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

The NT speaks of a MYSTERY.
The mystery that was revealed is sthat the GENTILES were also going to be included in salvation economy.

This back and froth without scripture (on my part) is unsatisfactory to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul persecuted the church of the apostles. God saved Paul and revealed all Paul would write

What kind of a weird God od we have?
First He allows Paul to persecute Jews and THEN He decides to use him for the gentiles....

I'm sorry Doug,
but your theology is very lacking.

 

[GodsGrace]

You said...................
Paul's PRIMARY task was to preach..NOT to baptize. This is correct.
However, we cannot say that he didn't TEACH baptism.

You said you gave me scripture where Paul said we had to be water baptized. I dont remember so could you give me that please

Skipped many of your replies.

This is what I'm willing to do:

Pick a topic...for instance Paul and baptism...
and we'll discuss ONLY that.

I cannot remember if I stated that Paul said we MUST be water baptized or if I said that Paul TAUGHT water baptism.
Big difference, and this type of discussion does not allow me to concentrate properly.

Sorry Doug.

But I do repeat to you:
COME HOME BROTHER.

And leave this nonsence behind.
It serves no purpose other than to divide the Kingdom of God...
which is right here
right now.

 

[GodsGrace]

ETHIOPIAN EUNUCH & PHILIP In Acts 8, it says,

​

Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:​

Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.​

Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?​

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.​

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?​

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.​

Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.​

Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.​

The Ethiopian eunuch & Philip find a "certain water", and so much so that both where able to go "down both into the water". After the "baptism", they "were come up out of the water". Again, the very symbolism of death, burial and resurrection by "much water" (Jhn. 3:23 KJB). Dying and being born again through water, and profession of the faith, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Hi Advantageous....
Never read such a thorough treatise on baptism!
I'm going to have to come back later and copy and paste this.
It's worth saving in my theology files.

I haven't read your posts, but have you ever looked into why infants were baptized in the early church?
It's interesting if you have time to do this.
It requires reading the Apostlic Fathers or Early Church Fathers.

I'd say that in these modern times...it is useless to baptize an infant.
In the early church it made some sense.

Thanks for posting so much info!

 

[GodsGrace]

Very well but with no animosity or condemnation intended you are saying what you think is ignoring and in spite of what scripture clearly says. Jesus didnt speak clearly but hid his teaching in parables............
[Matthew 13:10 KJV] "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"
[Matthew 13:11 KJV] "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

In fact here is it said by the apostles that he finally did speak plainly........[John 16:29 KJV] "His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb."

So Jesus spoke UNPLAINLY for some time
and then
decided to SPEAK PLAINLY.

I'm willing to discuss this too....
PICK YOUR TOPIC.

PAUL AND BAPTISM
JESUS AND PARABLES
THE KINGDOM OF GOD

Am NOT discussing all this all at once.
Sorry.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Paradise awaits the sheep at the end of our f aith .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

Point to Christ JESUS to the end . Ecumenical interfaith will grave ever last soul who unifies with its ungodly lie .
Only JESUS saves and one MUST believe to BE SAVED .

@amigo de christo

 

[Doug]

So you're saying that we do not have to obey jesus.
Basically, this is what you're stating.

Israel was to obey all he commanded
We are to apply all Jesus taught...............[2 Timothy 3:16 KJV] "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

 

[Doug]

I hear every word that comes out of the mouth of God.
It is for ME.
I apply it to my life to the best of my ability.

I don't believe God will say:

You did good not to obey Jesus --- that was only for Israel.

I am not being facetious here.........do you them follow these dietary commands if its for you? If not why not?
[Leviticus 11:4 KJV] "Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: [as] the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:7 KJV] "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you."
[Leviticus 11:8 KJV] "Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you."

 

[Doug]

So WE Gentiles are not to forgive?

Of course but not to be forgiven. but because we have been forgiven all our sin

 

[Doug]

Oh for goodness sake Doug...
Do you not know the meaning of the parable of the Rich man?

It was a literal command and was obeyed ..............[Acts 2:45 KJV] "And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need."

 

[Doug]

So now I need to stop praying too?

Of course not..................[1 Timothy 2:1 KJV] "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;"
Some apply this to themselves and think they can get anything they want. I am saying we cant apply this to ourselves and expect all our prayers to be answered

 

[Doug]

You do not know the writings of Paul well then. While we are all one body and no divisions, yet they are the distinctions between jew and Gentile.

Jewish Christians must be circumcised for it is an everlasting covenant between god and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They also must keep Sabbath as that is also an everlasting covenant between god and the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob..

Paul also said that there is neither male nor female. So do you believe we are all androgynous?

These distinctions are rooted in how people were allowed to worship in the jewish system and not that these distinctions were totally eradicated. Many Christians had slaves.

Paul did not command the Jewish converts to the body of Christ to not keep the law, but neither did he command them to be circumcised or keep the sabbath. If they did follow the law they were said to be weaker brothers.

When he said they weren't male nor female he was talking about their new identity as members of his body

 

[Doug]

I am going to respond to this in full. Please do not respond, until I am finished, and I will say, "I am finished" at the end of it. It will be lengthy.

Ok will respond when done