Water Baptism

[H. Richard]

Translation: Marymog asks some very tough questions that I can't answer. Therefor I call her names. ;)

Look up the definition of troll.....it is what you are doing.

Would you like to talk about the subject at hand or would you like to keep trolling???

Love, Mary

***

It would be wonderful if you would fight just as hard for the fact the Jesus' shed blood paid or all the sins of the world. You only fight for your rituals as if they save you in this age of God's grace. Salvation has been given to all who will put their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. But you show no interest in this fact. To you the important thing is something you can do in a religious ritual.

Water washing was a ritual under the Jewish traditions. It has no place in this age of grace. Salvation was paid for on the cross and there is no requirement of works to bring it about. Only faith in His work on the cross is acceptable to God. It give ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the credit for man's salvation to the Son of God. But you want to diminish His work and place your faith in your religion and performing a ritual that you think is needed in order to complete what Jesus did on the cross.

Your faith is in works required by your religion. Mine is in the work that Jesus did on the cross. He, Jesus, said it was finished and I will trust in Him. But you trust in men of religion.

Ps 5:11-12
11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You; Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them; Let those also who love Your name Be joyful in You.
12 For You, O Lord, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
NKJV

Ps 18:30-31
30 As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.
31 For who is God, except the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?
NKJV

Ps 37:39-40
39 But the salvation of the righteous is from the Lord; He is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them; He shall deliver them from the wicked, And save them, Because they trust in Him.
NKJV

Ps 62:6-8
6 He only is my rock and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be moved.
7 In God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refuge, is in God.
8 Trust in Him at all times, you people; Pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us. Selah
NKJV

Ps 118:8-9
8 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in princes.
NKJV

 

[Marymog]

***

It would be wonderful if you would fight just as hard for the fact the Jesus' shed blood paid or all the sins of the world. You only fight for your rituals as if they save you in this age of God's grace. Salvation has been given to all who will put their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. But you show no interest in this fact. To you the important thing is something you can do in a religious ritual.

Water washing was a ritual under the Jewish traditions. It has no place in this age of grace. Salvation was paid for on the cross and there is no requirement of works to bring it about. Only faith in His work on the cross is acceptable to God. It give ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the credit for man's salvation to the Son of God. But you want to diminish His work and place your faith in your religion and performing a ritual that you think is needed in order to complete what Jesus did on the cross.

Your faith is in works required by your religion. Mine is in the work that Jesus did on the cross. He, Jesus, said it was finished and I will trust in Him. But you trust in men of religion.

Ps 5:11-12
11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You; Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them; Let those also who love Your name Be joyful in You.
12 For You, O Lord, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
NKJV

Ps 18:30-31
30 As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.
31 For who is God, except the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?
NKJV

Ps 37:39-40
39 But the salvation of the righteous is from the Lord; He is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them; He shall deliver them from the wicked, And save them, Because they trust in Him.
NKJV

Ps 62:6-8
6 He only is my rock and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be moved.
7 In God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refuge, is in God.
8 Trust in Him at all times, you people; Pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us. Selah
NKJV

Ps 118:8-9
8 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in princes.
NKJV

Hi,

Post #24 sums it all up.

Love, Mary

 

[H. Richard]

Hi,

Post #24 sums it all up.

Love, Mary

***

If that is all you have it is just the ideas and opinions of religious men. Since you trust in their opinions you are just trusting in Men, not Jesus. As for me I will trust in God who sent Paul to the world with a message if God's grace.

 

[Grams]

H.Richard.....

Very Good....... you do follow the bible for sure ! :)

 

[Triumph1300]

Translation: Marymog asks some very tough questions that I can't answer.

Yes, that was an awesome tuff question you asked me about Jesus starting a church.
That something that I would never be able to answer. Lol.


I think you are an amazing girl--lovely, kind, spirited, charming and a good Roman Catholic -- and I'd like to take you to dinner.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, that was an awesome tuff question you asked me about Jesus starting a church.
That something that I would never be able to answer. Lol.


I think you are an amazing girl--lovely, kind, spirited, charming and a good Roman Catholic -- and I'd like to take you to dinner.

I still didn't get a reply so I guess it was a tough question. ;)

As far as the dinner thing....I don't think my spouse would appreciate that. :)

Mary

 

[Triumph1300]

I don't think my spouse would appreciate tha

Neither would I.

 

[bbyrd009]

Mary

love the avatar

 

[BreadOfLife]

The word "baptize" in Scripture means "wash." The Bible speaks of two Baptisms. On the one hand, it speaks of water baptism which man performs, and the other, a spiritual baptism (Titus 3:5) which only God performs.

Water baptism is not essential to one's salvation as we read in 1 Peter 1:21, besides water baptism, is a ritual man performs and therefore, a "works" gospel which is contrary to Ephesians 2:9.

WRONG.
First of all - Peter doesn't even mention Baptism in 1 Pet. 1:21.
What Peter DOES say about Baptism is that it SAVES us and is essential to our salvation:
Acts 2:38
"Repent and be BAPTIZED, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2 Pet. 3:21
This (Noah's flood) prefigured baptism, which SAVES YOU now.

Secondly, Jesus made it absolutely clear that Water Baptism is what brings on Spiritual Baptism (John 3:5).
Water AND Spirit.
.

Jesus' Baptism IS NOT the same as our baptism. His Baptism has a different purpose.

WRONG.
His Baptism was the PROTOTYPE of what happens at OUR Baptism - just as His Resurrection was the prototype for OUR resurrection.

Get your facts straight! See, John 1:33. The Holy Spirit did not just appear. John knew who Jesus was!

What does that have to do with the fact that Spirit and Water were the prototype of our Baptism that Jesus spoke of in John 3:5??

To borrow your words: "SHOW CHAPTER AND VERSE!"

To God Be The Glory

Gladly . . .

John 3:22-23
After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them BAPTIZING.
John was also BAPTIZING in Aenon near Salim, because there was an abundance of water there, and people came to be BAPTIZED, for John had not yet been imprisoned. [/QUOTE]

 

[Triumph1300]

"Repent and be BAPTIZED, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I agree on this one.

But I don't agree with baby baptism as roman catholics do.
Babies cannot repent.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I agree on this one.

But I don't agree with baby baptism as roman catholics do.
Babies cannot repent.

Then you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater - pun intended.

Peter and Paul baptized the entire households of Cornelius, Stephanas and the Philippian Jailer.
"Households" included people of every age - including babies.

Peter emphasized:

Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

When the disciples rebuked the children from approaching Jesus, He told them: “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.” (Matt 19:14, Luke 18:16).
Those who would keep the Sacrament of Baptism from infants are doing precisely what Christ himself disapproved of.

We read from the Early Church Fathers that this Tradition was passed onto them by the Apostles.

Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen
"The Church received from the APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage
"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

 

[Triumph1300]

Not a word about a baby repenting.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not a word about a baby repenting.

Did babies repent or make a "Covenant" with God before their foreskin was cut off at EIGHT days?
No. They were raised in the faith - by the faith of their parents and guardians.

Christianity is the FULFILLMENT of Judaism. The OT type that was circumcision is now the NT fulfillment that is Baptism.
Paul refers to it as the "circumcision of the heart" (Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17).

Baptized Babies are raised in the faith by their parents and guardians.

 

[Marymog]

***

If that is all you have it is just the ideas and opinions of religious men. Since you trust in their opinions you are just trusting in Men, not Jesus. As for me I will trust in God who sent Paul to the world with a message if God's grace.

Is not what you have given your opinion??? Are you a man? You interpreted Paul's words to mean what you believe to be The Truth.

The Catholic Church is led by men. They interpreted Paul's words to mean what they believe to be The Truth. The men I quoted are called Apostolic or Church Fathers. Do you know what that means?

The historical Christian writing I quoted was written while the Apostles were still alive. How is your interpretation more valid than the men who walked and talked with the Apostles?

Curious Mary

 

[Triumph1300]

Baptized Babies are raised in the faith by their parents and guardians.

They can raise babies in the faith as much as they want, but if they don't repent at a later age there's not much use.

 

[BreadOfLife]

They can raise babies in the faith as much as they want, but if they don't repent at a later age there's not much use.

Correct.
One needs to repent and confess their sins in order to be forgiven. However, an infant doesn't have any sins to confess.

Infant baptism isn't a guarantee that you've got a non-stop ticket to Heaven - any more than the fallacy of OSAS.
As Christians, we are forgiven - we stumble, we repent and are forgiven again. As many times as it takes . . .

 

[Triumph1300]

However, an infant doesn't have any sins to confess.

True.

Infant baptism isn't a guarantee that you've got a non-stop ticket to Heaven - any more than the fallacy of OSAS.

True again.

As Christians, we are forgiven - we stumble, we repent and are forgiven again. As many times as it takes . . .

Yup. I agree again.

 

[H. Richard]

Is not what you have given your opinion??? Are you a man? You interpreted Paul's words to mean what you believe to be The Truth.

The Catholic Church is led by men. They interpreted Paul's words to mean what they believe to be The Truth. The men I quoted are called Apostolic or Church Fathers. Do you know what that means?

The historical Christian writing I quoted was written while the Apostles were still alive. How is your interpretation more valid than the men who walked and talked with the Apostles?

Curious Mary

***

What makes you think that the men running your church have the correct interpretation of Paul's writings. Are their opinions better then mine? You will say yes but you are still trusting in men's ideas. As for me I am trusting in God (the Holy Spirit) to teach me the truth as I read the scriptures. You are trusting in men.

Apostles still alive! You mean the 12 who were sent to the Jews. You people think Paul was taught his Gospel of grace by the 12 but the scriptures tell a different story. But of course you will say I am interpreting it wrong. Just as the Holy Spirit taught Paul the gospel he preached the Holy Spirit teaches God's children the same way.

Gal 1:11-12
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
NKJV

You can't believe this scripture and still say Paul was taught by the 12 Apostles. As far as Peter being a rock; no where in the O.T. is a man called a rock. It always referenced The Lord (Jesus)

IMO This thread has become your work of teaching the apostate church which, IMO, is the anti-Christ. Why??? Because it elevates men above God The Holy Spirit. In The scriptures people tried to make Paul a God by worshiping Him and He, Paul, said not to do it. But it is clear that those in the RCC like to be worshiped that way. They wear outlandish garments to set themselves up as closer to God than others. They allow people to kiss their hand or feet. Just as Satan wants to be seen as a god on this earth the RCC clergy does the same thing. IMO

If you like your religion keep it. But i will never accept a religion that has the blood of many on it's hands.

 

[bbyrd009]

Salvation was paid for on the cross and there is no requirement of works to bring it about.

ah, confession-free salvation, wouldn't that be awesome?
Just suppress the ego long enough for a little altar profession, say you love Jesus, and be saved forevermore?
Why pick up that pesky stake and follow, when you don't have to, right?

 

[Triumph1300]

ah, confession-free salvation, wouldn't that be awesome?
Just suppress the ego long enough for a little altar profession, say you love Jesus, and be saved forevermore?
Why pick up that pesky stake and follow, when you don't have to, right?

Are you serious? Stop being a drama queen.
That's not what H. Richard was saying.
And you know that he didn't.