We must be born again to be God's kingdom.

[ATP]

No one is arguing about it.

We are talking about your not accepting Jesus' teaching of "born again" believers.

I already told what born again means, over and over Rom 10:9.

I am showing you all the words that you are ignoring to justify your man-made doctrine.

You can run but you cannot hide, dear.

But I'm quoting the Word of God, so how can it be man-made? God himself tells me once I believe I have eternal life. Do you believe God?

 

[Joyful]

Are you teaching sinless perfection?

Your post is redundant. I concentrate on one thing at a time.

I don't teach anything. I spread what Jesus teaches. Jesus commands us to be perfect. Nope I am not perfect, no one is. Regardless, Jesus commands it.

that's why we should not boast to be saved.

Most, if not all, OSAS believers boast to be saved.

You should know what Jesus says about arrogant people.

 

[Joyful]

I already told what born again means, over and over Rom 10:9.

suit yourself with half truth. I just showed you the rest and you keep on denying them.

But I'm quoting the Word of God, so how can it be man-made? God himself tells me once I believe I have eternal life. Do you believe God?

Read the above.

 

[ATP]

suit yourself with half truth. I just showed you the rest and you keep on denying them.



Read the above.

Are you covered in the blood of Jesus Joyful.

 

[justaname]

Your post is redundant. I concentrate on one thing at a time.

I don't teach anything. I spread what Jesus teaches. Jesus commands us to be perfect. Nope I am not perfect, no one is. Regardless, Jesus commands it.

that's why we should not boast to be saved.

Most, if not all, OSAS believers boast to be saved.

You know what Jesus says about arrogant people.

By spreading what YOU interpret Jesus as teaching, you have made yourself a teacher...


So then according to your teaching here in this post Jesus commands perfection, no one is perfect, so no one is born again. Is this a fair assessment then?

 

[ATP]

John 8:44 NIV You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[Joyful]

By spreading what YOU interpret Jesus as teaching, you have made yourself a teacher...

Nope, I am only a messenger, not a teacher. Jesus is the Teacher.

So then according to your teaching here in this post Jesus commands perfection, no one is perfect, so no one is born again. Is this a fair assessment then?

It is irrevant since I am not a teacher but I know what Jesus teaches so I can answer what Jesus teaches.

Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to give us power to overcome our sins, so if we are striving to be pure and true to Jesus He will be merciful to accept who are sincere.

It is up to Jesus to judge if we are striving to be true to Jesus or just plain lip servers.

these are my contextual reasoning, reading His word.

 

[Joyful]

John 8:44 NIV You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

It sounds like talking abut OSAS believers, dear.

 

[Joyful]

1 John 5: 1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world.

You see, born again and keeping commands are connected.

You cannot separate them.

If you are born again, you will be in His Kingdome. If you are born again, you will keep His commands.

 

[Barrd]

This is a fair assessment, yet do you not understand I could use your own argument on you? Why listen to you? You are setting yourself up as a teacher. I can read the Bible for myself...I have the words of Jesus just as you. I have never heard of The Barrd

As a bit of a correction...most do not believe Luke walked with Jesus...

I will be the first to tell you that I am no teacher, and I will refer you to Jesus Christ.
Never mind what The Barrd has to say...if you want to know the truth about this or that issue, go to Jesus Christ.
The very best I can do is to parrot what He and HIs Apostles have to say.

 

[ATP]

I'm done with this thread.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Revelation 2:4-5
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly,
and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

looks like here people could have fallen from grace if the did not repent

 

[justaname]

Barrd and Joyful,

Your reasoning is flawed. You both come giving your interpretations of what Jesus teaches. Thereby you make yourself the authority on what Jesus teaches. Hence you are teaching what Jesus teaches.

You both are teachers. Now I believe you are attempting to follow Jesus' command to call no one Teacher, yet in this context of the Scriptures the word takes on a bit of a different meaning (this is why I use a Capitol T)


So my point in case is in the OP, Joyful came to a conclusion of what the Scriptures covey. Once any thing other than the Scriptures themselves were submitted you have shifted from objectivity (this is what the Scriptures say) to subjectivity (this is what the Scriptures mean by what they say) This is how and why you have made yourself teachers...especially if you believe yourselves to be right.

I don't want to bog us down with translation and subjectivity...

So then in effect because you believe yourself to be right, you are teaching your view. Let take for example the doctrine of OSAS...
What if you are wrong in your stance against it? Then you have been teaching against what Jesus teaches...

Just for the record...I have never in this thread revealed my position regarding that subject...

 

[Joyful]

Barrd and Joyful,

Your reasoning is flawed. You both come giving your interpretations of what Jesus teaches.

do you realize that Jesus commands us to "go therefore, go make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

It is another inconvenient command of Jesus that you conveniently disregard.

shame on you.

 

[justaname]

It is another inconvenient command of Jesus that you conveniently disregard.

shame on you.

Is this your teaching that I disregard?

Allow me to expand a bit for clarity...

First off what language was Jesus speaking when He said this? Because if you are looking at the literal meaning of this verse Jesus never said "teacher".

Why does this matter? Well because if simple word substitution is what Jesus ment, then Jesus was probably speaking Hebrew where He actually used the word rabbi. In the English language we use the word teacher so we are in no way breaking Jesus' command. Jesus did not speak English...

Then you could say, "well that isn't what Jesus ment". Here now you would now be interpreting the meaning of Jesus' teaching setting yourself up as an instructor of Jesus' teaching...a teacher.

Here then also you would be admitting that word substitution is not Jusus' intent, and that there was a greater meaning behind Jesus' teaching or command.
This command is similar to not calling anyone "father". Does Jesus then mean we can call someone "dad"? This then would be a case of word substitution. Yet if we deduce that word substitution is not Jesus' intent then it would seem we can't call teachers "instructors" or fathers "dads" either because they both mean the same thing. So then we are left with a bit of a conundrum...

 

[tom55]

[SIZE=11.5pt]Joyful wrote:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]In a nutshell, we are not born again unless we keep the commands of God[/SIZE] [SIZE=11.5pt]through [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]Jesus Christ[/SIZE].

[SIZE=11.5pt]You skipped from John 3:3 to 3:7 which left out something else Jesus said about being born: [/SIZE]John 3:5: Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of Godhttp://web.safesear.ch/?t=cp&q=God unless they are born of water and the Spirithttp://web.safesear.ch/?t=cp&q=Spirit.
[SIZE=11.5pt]So what does that “command of God through Jesus Christ” tell us?? How can I be “born of water and spirit”?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]Respectfully...Tom55[/SIZE]

 

[Joyful]

Is this your teaching that I disregard?

Yes, you, OSAS believers have been preaching you don't have to obey Jesus' teachings to be saved.

Jesus says to teach the world to obey His commands.

 

[Joyful]

[SIZE=11.5pt]Joyful wrote:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]In a nutshell, we are not born again unless we keep the commands of God[/SIZE] [SIZE=11.5pt]through [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]Jesus Christ[/SIZE].

[SIZE=11.5pt]You skipped from John 3:3 to 3:7 which left out something else Jesus said about being born: [/SIZE]John 3:5: Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of Godhttp://web.safesear.ch/?t=cp&q=God unless they are born of water and the Spirithttp://web.safesear.ch/?t=cp&q=Spirit.
[SIZE=11.5pt]So what does that “command of God through Jesus Christ” tell us?? How can I be “born of water and spirit”?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]Respectfully...Tom55[/SIZE]

Read Jesus' word, it is all there.

Jesus explained in detail.

You have been all out of context against Jesus' principle of what it is to follow Jesus.

All you have been doing is nitpicking all inconvenient word of Jesus to justify your man-made doctrines.

 

[justaname]

Yes, you, OSAS believers have been preaching you don't have to obey Jesus' teachings to be saved.

Jesus says to teach the world to obey His commands.

And again I never revealed my position regarding that doctrine...you do understand you have a fallacy here...

Also the general statement "you don't have to obey Jesus' teaching to be saved" is another fallacy. Perhaps some may teach this, yet I am certain that others do not.

Also respectfully I would like to refer you to my previous post as I have added content to it...

Also I would like to add that this is relevant to the topic because according to your premise, we must obey Jesus' commands to be born again, this deals with specific commands of Jesus...

So please...the floor is yours to clarify your teaching...

 

[tom55]

Read Jesus' word, it is all there.

Jesus explained in detail.

You have been all out of context against Jesus' principle of what it is to follow Jesus.

All you have been doing is nitpicking all inconvenient word of Jesus to justify your man-made doctrines.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Jesus said ".....no one can enter the kingdom of [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]God[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]unless they are born of water and the [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Spirit[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]."[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am simply asking YOU what YOU think He means by that? I don't see it "explained in detail". I don't see how I am "nitpicking" when I am in fact quoting scripture (just like you did).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]YOU referenced John 3:3 about being born again and left out John 3:5 about being “born of water and Spirit” which puts Jesus statement about being “born again” in full context. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]That is why I am asking YOU: . How do I become born of water and Spirit?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Respectfully....Tom55[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]