WE NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN.

[Karl Peters]

not by faith alone
Faith and baptism Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-37
Put in Christ by baptism gal 3:27
Wash away sins by baptism acts 22:16


It’s not a bible study!
It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

We hear Him by "Faith"!!!

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of [he Law, or by hearing with faith?

So if in fact you do actually hear from Him you do so because you believe that He is there to be heard from!! That hear Him by faith is counted as righteousness to you! And you know where you find that first - in the Old Testament!!!

Gen 15:4-6 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.” And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

And you should notice that there was prophecy in those verses. Very important prophecy in fact, because we are saved because like father Abraham we hear the Lord with faith!!

So you statements:
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Are wrong!

Abram was counted a righteous by faith alone!!
It was by accepting what Jesus Christ was saying to Him that was reckoned to hem as righteousness and nothing else!!!

But perhaps you are missing a revelation???

The revelation you might be missing is the Jesus Christ is the Word of God. That is His name!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

So He was "the word of the Lord" who came to Abram saying!!! Thus you can actually substitute the name Jesus Christ for "the word of the Lord/God" in Gen 15: 4-6 So it would read - Then behold, Jesus Christ came to him saying, "This man will not be your heir....

You could do that except Jesus the Christ had not yet gone to the cross so it might not be right to call the Christ 'Jesus" which means God's salvation at that time. But the One whose name it called "The Word of God" did go to the cross and as a result He alone is Jesus (God's salvation) but you have to believe in Him! (Have faith). And that is all you need. Yet faith in Him means believing He is with you and that means you will seek Him who is with you for advice, counsel, teaching, and so much more. Believing in Him means hearing from Him (The Word of God) every single day! And that alone saves you!

So it is that the "Born Again" person hears the sound of the wind. We are "Born Again" when we believe He is there to me heard from and let/accept Him into our lives!!!

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

We are indeed saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone!! And faith comes by hearing a word from the Lord!

Of course after we get that faith that saves us and we start hearing from Jesus Christ He is then going start cleaning us up by immersing us in His Holy Spirit - which means we are going to start hearing from Him everyday called "Today". But you don't get cleaned up before but after you are saved by faith (born again). The man next to Jesus Christ on the cross, whom Jesus said would be with Him in heaven, was not cleaned up but he did believe in Jesus Christ! It's better to find and accept Jesus Christ into your life before the last moments of your life here on earth! And if anyone is thinking that you have to believe in Jesus Christ then get cleaned up by the Lord before you are saved is now making it about the good works you do after knowing the Lord. You will do things because of you will hear Him by faith, but it is not your works but your faith that saves you!

 

[theefaith]

We hear Him by "Faith"!!!

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of [he Law, or by hearing with faith?

So if in fact you do actually hear from Him you do so because you believe that He is there to be heard from!! That hear Him by faith is counted as righteousness to you! And you know where you find that first - in the Old Testament!!!

Gen 15:4-6 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.” And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

And you should notice that there was prophecy in those verses. Very important prophecy in fact, because we are saved because like father Abraham we hear the Lord with faith!!

So you statements:
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Are wrong!

Abram was counted a righteous by faith alone!!
It was by accepting what Jesus Christ was saying to Him that was reckoned to hem as righteousness and nothing else!!!

But perhaps you are missing a revelation???

The revelation you might be missing is the Jesus Christ is the Word of God. That is His name!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

So He was "the word of the Lord" who came to Abram saying!!! Thus you can actually substitute the name Jesus Christ for "the word of the Lord/God" in Gen 15: 4-6 So it would read - Then behold, Jesus Christ came to him saying, "This man will not be your heir....

You could do that except Jesus the Christ had not yet gone to the cross so it might not be right to call the Christ 'Jesus" which means God's salvation at that time. But the One whose name it called "The Word of God" did go to the cross and as a result He alone is Jesus (God's salvation)

it is by grace
Grace makes faith and works meritorious


It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

 

[Karl Peters]

My church had a school of ministry they did. The Lord asked me to go through the school of ministry. I didn't want to, but what are you going to do if He starts asking you to do something you don't want. Yeah - I tried reason with Him and get out of it, but He kept telling me He really wanted me to go through that school of ministry. So I did. I even learned a few things there.

One thing I did not learn there, but they did teach there was something call Justification and Sanctification. Those are just fancier words for what I have been going over here with "Theefaith".

Justification is our being justified by our faith in Jesus Christ.

Sanctification is pretty much our being cleaned up by Him after we believe in Him.

Ok - they are fancy words that people can discuss but it's very simple. As soon as we believe in Jesus Christ we get salvation because we are Justified by faith in Jesus Christ!

I usually just point to Gen 15 to where Abram heard the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ) speaking to him and believe that was the Lord and that faith in Jesus Christ was reckoned as righteousness to Him! Abram was justified by faith alone!! It is that faith that saves us, and only that faith that saves us!!

Now if you hear from the Lord Jesus Christ and believe Him to be the Lord our God, then you will continue to hear from Him because He is also the great I AM - meaning He is always there. And if you are continually hearing from God who is the Lord, then you are certainly going to be getting instructions from Him continually (not meaning all the time but surely everyday at least) And He is also known as Teacher and Wonderful Counselor, so you are going to regularly going to get teachings and wonderful counsel also!!

Now I of course knew all that before taking those classes in the school of ministry. Surely anyone who really knows Him, listens to Him, and has been doing this for a while would have come across this teaching from Him. It is really very obvious. You hear from Him, then continue hearing from Him, then get instructions, teachings, and counsel from Him, and thus you wind up being immersed in His Holy Spirit because we hear from Him via His Holy Spirit speaking to our spirit. So you obviously understand that you got your salvation as soon as you started believing and hearing from Him - but you can't miss the fact that you needed cleaning up by Him! Thus anyone knowing Him should clearly understand this justification and sanctification concept. It is simply having faith in Him and that faith then resulting in you being clean up by Him. But they are two separate things, just like justification and sanctification, or born again and baptism are different words. One leads to the other but they are not the same thing!

So if a person should happen to die before they are sanctified or baptized by the Holy Spirit they are still justified/born again Christians and they get salvation!!

This was obvious to me before taking those classes, simply because I know the Lord and so I saw what He has done in my life. It wasn't like I was instantly some incredible Spirit filled person the moment I heard those first words from Him - which happened to be "Read Your Bible". Things started happening after that but it was gradual and increasing. In fact I really didn't figure out that I Him and I could have conversations back and forth until a couple of months after I finished reading the Bible which took about nine months. And I am still learning to this very day, some 20 years later.

So I understand that Christians are not always going to understand about talking back and forth with the Lord everyday. They should. I am going to point them to Him which means talking back and forth with Him everyday. Sometimes that mean pointing them away from religious spirits which like to make Christianity about the religion as opposed to knowing Him. So it is that I find people who think it is about baptism, or knowing the Bible and quoting verses, and seem to think going to church or just sounding religious is saving them. Some make it about their good works, or their knowledge. Yet it is always about hearing the Lord Jesus Christ by faith! That alone is what saves you - even though hearing Him by faith will mean that you are going to wind up being baptized (immersed) in the Spirit and with that fire He uses to clean you up!


Still it is about hearing Him by faith, which means the born again person will hear the sound of the wind. Then they will get baptized in the Spirit and with fire later because they hear the sound of the wind. That is just the way things happen, and when talking about Jesus Christ we are talking about the Truth.

 

[theefaith]

Correction

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Proof of true faith is humble s humble subjection and obedience to Christ and His holy church!

 

[theefaith]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

 

[Karl Peters]

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

Really?

I wonder why Jesus did say "Baptismal regeneration" instead of "Born Again"?

In the story about Nicodemus the Pharisee and Jesus Christ and Jesus telling him that we must be born again - what you have is a man following religion instead of listening to God and Jesus Christ who is as a man and who does and says only what the Father tells Him. Nicodemus, though he doesn't hear from God but leans solely on his own understand obtained from others men instead of listening to the Lord still considers himself to be a teacher of the law - which is pretty amazing if you think about it. How is a person going to be an expert on God, the Great I Am, and never listen to Him???

Jn 3:10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

If someone was like that today - what would it look like?

Anyway - Jesus explained what being born again looks like to that religious zealot and Pharisee, who thought he should be a teacher of the law even though he never sought the voice of God so that even though He was standing right in front of the Son of God in the flesh, the very One whose name is called and had been called the Word of God or word of the Lord, because Jesus was the Christ who spoke to men like Abram many years earlier, he did not know the voice of the Christ and who was really talking to Him!! God was trying to get through to that sad case of a religious zealot. The Lord does that. He tries to get through to people - that they need to actually seek the Lord and listen to Him! That is what being born again is like and if you do that you testify about that - hearing from the Spirit of God speaking to your spirit the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ!

So it is that Jesus explained to the Pharisee, that you must be born again which means

Jn 3:6-8 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The simple fact is that when you let the Lord come into your life you start hearing from the Lord via the Holy Spirit speaking you your spirit. You can't really point to where the voice comes from. It seems to come to your heart and you sometimes find it in your mouth because He speaks to your heart which tends to put words in your mouth. Another things is that since it is not from you, you don't really know where the Lord is coming from or going to - meaning you don't fully understand what the Lord's purpose is. There is one thing you know about His purpose, and that is the work of God is meant to bring people to the Son, who again is the Word of God. So God wants people to listen to His Son via the Holy Spirit speaking to their spirit and He would like them to stop leaning on their own understanding!!

That was what the conversation between the Lord and the Pharisee Nicodemus was about!

So I ask again: "why Jesus did say "Baptismal regeneration" instead of "Born Again"?

Do you still not understand? Do you still not understand what is trying to be done here?




I was walking and talking back and forth with the Lord on this and asking Him about this thread. I always find it interesting. He never sounds 'puffed up' but always has an interesting point of view. Instead of talking about "Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation! - or Baptismal regeneration" - He started talking about how people say we should use Him as an example. So He used His life on earth in the felsh as an example. He came down our of heaven and was born in the flesh. Of course He was already alive so He had to take on flesh. From that young age He was still hearing from His Father, so as a youth He was teaching even the wisest of that time in the temple area and they were amazed. Yet though He was been born He was not yet baptized nor had He really gotten to those years we like to call His ministry years. It was later and His fleshy body was older when He began to enter that time of His ministry. At that time He, even He, went to John the Baptist and got baptized. John saw the Spirit descend on Him like a dove. What was happening there? Was not He already hearing from the Father all His life in the flesh, via the Holy Spirit, yet He the Holy Spirit is now seen descending on Him like a dove and He is getting baptized by John the Baptist!! And this all right before He really gets into His ministry!

So as we walked and talked, He seemed amazed that people read the Bible, say they use Him as an example, and miss the example He Himself put forth!

He often tends to put forth questions to me to get me to think. He asked me things like, "What do you think, that I would not gotten back to heaven if I had been killed before getting baptized?

And see, He doesn't used a bunch of puffed up words, ever! I have never heard that with Him. He often uses parable, stories, sayings, and such to get me thinking, but I have never ever heard Him say something like "Baptismal regeneration"! In fact I have never heard Him use the words Justification or Sanctification either. If you look back to my post on those, I got those words from people teaching in the church. They did seem to match up with things He had taught me on - like Abram being counted as being righteous simply because He heard the voice of the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ) speaking to him and believe in Him.

Justification and Sanctification

So I do testify about hearing from Him ( what I heard in the wind) That also is a sign of being born again.

Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Jesus Christ was hearing and passing along what He heard but the Pharisees Nicodemus was not willing to accept the testimony.

People - from what I hear you must indeed be born of the Spirit which means you will hear the sound of the wind (the Holy Spirit speaking to you in words to your spirit) If that is happening you will be zealous of Him who the Holy Spirit gets His words from (Jesus Christ) And you will testify about hearing from Him. Yet there is also a time when the Spirit comes on you and you are immersed in the Holy Spirit and what then? The Lord has had me to many things for Him. For a five year period He had me working in a Christian healing ministry and I saw the Lord do hundreds of incredible things. The fact is that many people start hearing from the Lord and then make a decision to get baptized later, and also they start hearing from the Lord before they really start seeing the power of God being used through them and get into their ministry. Jesus was a perfect example of that! And you can read about that example in the Bible. You can also read about religious zealots like the Pharisees.

 

[theefaith]

Baptismal regeneration!

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(Born again by baptism)

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Becoming a Disciple by baptism!

Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

The sacraments are the promise of the father! Acts 2:38-39 ez 36:25-27

 

[theefaith]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Proof of true faith is humble s humble subjection and obedience to Christ and His holy church!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: we Must be born again!

Precious friends, yes, God Desires A Relationship with HIM!
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!

And That is for ETERNITY!!:
God's Eternal Assurance

The fellowship is what is BROKEN in this life, NOT HIS Relationship!!

MAJOR Differences in these TWO!!!
God's Simple Will!

 

[theefaith]

op: we Must be born again!

Precious friends, yes, God Desires A Relationship with HIM!
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!

And That is for ETERNITY!!:
God's Eternal Assurance

The fellowship is what is BROKEN in this life, NOT HIS Relationship!!

MAJOR Differences in these TWO!!!
God's Simple Will!

baptism is being born again and it is the relationship with the mediator in the covenant

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

 

[charity]

In our bibles we are being told by Paul that IF you are a Christian, there is NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL that there is any condemnation from God towards you. Ever. No condemnation. We are also being told that we are the children of God – and that this relationship with God is based, not on FEAR, but upon LOVE. Also, we are being told that God is FOR us – and that because of that, nothing and no one can stand against us. And finally, we are being told that there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER that can come between us and the love of God in Christ Jesus. We are also told that we do not have to EARN our Salvation by works but that it is a FREE gift, and that we are accepted by God because of our FAITH.

ü Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

ü In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John:17-19

ü If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31

ü For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-19

ü For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9


These assurances are describing, not only God’s attitude towards us, but they are describing our RELATIONSHIP with Him through Christ. We could list many other verses. But these four strike at the heart and core of so many of the problems we have in our Christian walk.

All true but there is a big IF in there. Terms and conditions still apply in God's Kingdom. And not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian. Not all church goers are Christians. Not all clergy, including bishops and priests, are born again Christians. Not everyone who was Christened/’baptised’ as a baby is a born again Christian. Not everybody who has a title in front of their name is a Christian. Not everybody who was brought up by Christian parents is a Christian. This is something I was taught by the lovely Spirit filled C of E vicar who led me to Christ over thirty years ago. I thought I was a Christian but I wasn’t. You have to make your own choice.

Some of these and other similar truths were listed in the front of a little booklet called 'Journey Into Life' which I read and responded to all those years ago. It is still true today. There is only one way to be a Christian and that is to repent, seek forgiveness die to self and turn your life over to Jesus, ask him to come into your heart - because if Jesus isn’t in your HEART whatever you do is just empty religion.

You need to be born again.

Hello @Pearl,

Thank you for your OP.

I prefer the term 'Born of God': John uses that term a lot in his epistles, in fact it seems to be exclusive to him. (1John 3:9; ; 1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:1; 1 John 5:4; 1 John 5:18). Yet, 'Born again', is the term our Lord used to Nicodemus, (that master in Israel, ruler and Pharisee) which I believe had reference to Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Isaiah 59:20-21, which will be Israel's experience in that day yet to come, described here:-

'Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers;
and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.'
(Eze 36:25-27)

'And the Redeemer shall come to Zion,
and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD;
My spirit that is upon thee,
and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed,
saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.'
(Isa 59:20-21)

* Our Lord came to confirm the promises made to the Fathers, and I believe this was just such a confirmation: and Nicodemus should have recognised this (see John 3:10).

* The New Birth and why it is necessary is shown in John 3:5-7:-

'Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.'
(John 3:5-7)

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Hi @Pearl,

Just one more reference for your consideration, re: reply#51 (above), concerning Jerusalem:-

'Before she travailed, she brought forth;
before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
( Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD:
shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her:
rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:'
(Isa 66:7-9)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Pearl]

Hello @Pearl,

Thank you for your OP.

I prefer the term 'Born of God': John uses that term a lot in his epistles, in fact it seems to be exclusive to him. (1John 3:9; ; 1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:1; 1 John 5:4; 1 John 5:18). Yet, 'Born again', is the term our Lord used to Nicodemus, (that master in Israel, ruler and Pharisee) which I believe had reference to Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Isaiah 59:20-21, which will be Israel's experience in that day yet to come, described here:-

'Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers;
and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.'
(Eze 36:25-27)

'And the Redeemer shall come to Zion,
and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD;
My spirit that is upon thee,
and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed,
saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.'
(Isa 59:20-21)

* Our Lord came to confirm the promises made to the Fathers, and I believe this was just such a confirmation: and Nicodemus should have recognised this (see John 3:10).

* The New Birth and why it is necessary is shown in John 3:5-7:-

'Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.'
(John 3:5-7)

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you Chris. I use 'born again' because it is the term Jesus himself used.

 

[marks]

Thank you Chris. I use 'born again' because it is the term Jesus himself used.

I think that born again, born of God, born from above, and born of the Spirit all describe the same thing.

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

I think that born again, born of God, born from above, and born of the Spirit all describe the same thing.

Much love!

It all means baptismal regeneration

 

[Karl Peters]

Baptismal regeneration!

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(Born again by baptism)

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Becoming a Disciple by baptism!

Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

The sacraments are the promise of the father! Acts 2:38-39 ez 36:25-27

You don't become a disciple of anyone by some baptism - you become someone's disciple/pupil by listening to them as someone would listen to their teacher!!

So how does someone miss this very simple fact?

Answer - they are not listening to the Teacher!

If you don't listen to Jesus Christ as your Teacher you are left with leaning on your own understanding of the Bible.

Jn 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.:

As we can read above, this is nothing new. Religious people tend to make it about religion (men's understanding of God) as opposed to actually seeking the Lord our God Jesus Christ, the Teacher, and then listen to what He has to say!

So they misinterpret the meaning of verses!

Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

For example - someone leaning on their own understanding might think that the above verse means that baptizing a person makes them a disciple. Of course that is wrong, because as mentioned a disciple of someone learns from the person they are a disciple of. Baptism is a commitment a person makes, and it shows a commitment to someone. So we are to make people disciples of Jesus Christ - meaning getting them to start hearing the Lord by faith, and then we are to get them to make a commitment to Him, which as a bit of symbolism we baptize them in water as a example of what the Lord does after them get to listening to Him and them make a commitment to Him. He then baptizes them (immerses them) in the Holy Spirit.

The two things don't have to happen at the same time are rarely do. Normally someone fells the presence of the Lord and accepts the Lord into their life.

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Now this starting to listen to the Lord might happen at church, based upon the preaching done their, but it does not have to because the Lord Jesus Christ is always (24/7) standing their trying to get through to people! A person could get a dream where the Lord appears to them and they hear Him talking to them and then believe it is the Lord. That faith is counted as righteousness to them (Gen 15) That person is them saved by faith!

Jn 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

So what if that person beholding the Son in a dream and believing if they don't have a church close to them so as to get baptized before a bus strikes them down dead? Does God now become a liar? Never!

So there is an instruction given to the church of the Lord but there is also an understanding obtain by listening to our Teacher. Yet some lean on their understanding (their religion) as opposed to their listening by faith to the Lord! And this is nothing new!

Ex 20:19 ... but let God not speak to us...

This was an attitude that many of God's chosen people have always had!

Deut 30:19,20 ... So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life

This listening and obeying His voice was explained over and over, but they still would not listen!

Ps 81:8 Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you;
Ps 81:11 But My people did not listen to My voice,

And there is the crux of the problem!! There is nothing new under the sun. He calls people, but they refuse to listen to Him! Then even their water baptism is of no good to them, because it is just pretending obedience to Him.

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD; And Israel did not obey Me.
O Israel, if you would listen to Me!

Which of course takes us back to a people that Jesus talked to while in the flesh, and John recorded the conversation as noted above (Jn 5:39), and father above with the "born again" conversation with Nicodemus.

Nicodemus was such a religious person who was dedicated to God and considered himself a wise teacher of the law, but he was not really that at all, because he did not listen to the sound of the wind (the Holy Spirit) So in this thread I have pointed out:

Jn 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

And I have testified about hearing from the Lord.

Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

That doesn't mean it is accepted.

It is written that they will all be taught of God, but that does not mean you read and study the Bible (thought you will). It means you actually hear Him, the Teacher, talking to you and teaching you. He tells you things which since you have heard you can pass on, and will. Things like:

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

You hear Him speak to you, teach you, and understand that the Bible is correct in pointing you to listen to Him, the Teacher. Doing so makes you His disciple! So if someone comes saying that it is the baptism and not the hearing the sound of the wind which make a person His disciple you can see they don't match up with Him and the Bible. They have put their faith in baptism and not in Him. Yeah - He will talk to you and get you to make a commitment, and yes He will talk to you and immerse you in His Holy Spirit, but you were saved by that faith that comes from hearing Him and believing it is Him. Just like Abram was counted as righteous because he heard the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ) talking to him and believed Him to be the Lord, so too are we saved because we do the same thing Abram does. We listen to Him!! We are His disciples! And you know what; I got baptized as a commitment to Him, and I have been immersed in the Spirit and with that fire that came when I was given the gift of tongues. That was weird, and it still is weird when that fire (it literally feels like fire on my chest) when the Holy Spirit comes on me like that. Yet first came the voice which I believed was the Lord God!

 

[theefaith]

You don't become a disciple of anyone by some baptism - you become someone's disciple/pupil by listening to them as someone would listen to their teacher!!

So how does someone miss this very simple fact?

Answer - they are not listening to the Teacher!

If you don't listen to Jesus Christ as your Teacher you are left with leaning on your own understanding of the Bible.

Jn 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.:

As we can read above, this is nothing new. Religious people tend to make it about religion (men's understanding of God) as opposed to actually seeking the Lord our God Jesus Christ, the Teacher, and then listen to what He has to say!

So they misinterpret the meaning of verses!

Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

For example - someone leaning on their own understanding might think that the above verse means that baptizing a person makes them a disciple. Of course that is wrong, because as mentioned a disciple of someone learns from the person they are a disciple of. Baptism is a commitment a person makes, and it shows a commitment to someone. So we are to make people disciples of Jesus Christ - meaning getting them to start hearing the Lord by faith, and then we are to get them to make a commitment to Him, which as a bit of symbolism we baptize them in water as a example of what the Lord does after them get to listening to Him and them make a commitment to Him. He then baptizes them (immerses them) in the Holy Spirit.

The two things don't have to happen at the same time are rarely do. Normally someone fells the presence of the Lord and accepts the Lord into their life.

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Now this starting to listen to the Lord might happen at church, based upon the preaching done their, but it does not have to because the Lord Jesus Christ is always (24/7) standing their trying to get through to people! A person could get a dream where the Lord appears to them and they hear Him talking to them and then believe it is the Lord. That faith is counted as righteousness to them (Gen 15) That person is them saved by faith!

Jn 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

So what if that person beholding the Son in a dream and believing if they don't have a church close to them so as to get baptized before a bus strikes them down dead? Does God now become a liar? Never!

So there is an instruction given to the church of the Lord but there is also an understanding obtain by listening to our Teacher. Yet some lean on their understanding (their religion) as opposed to their listening by faith to the Lord! And this is nothing new!

Ex 20:19 ... but let God not speak to us...

This was an attitude that many of God's chosen people have always had!

Deut 30:19,20 ... So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life

This listening and obeying His voice was explained over and over, but they still would not listen!

Ps 81:8 Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you;
Ps 81:11 But My people did not listen to My voice,

And there is the crux of the problem!! There is nothing new under the sun. He calls people, but they refuse to listen to Him! Then even their water baptism is of no good to them, because it is just pretending obedience to Him.

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD; And Israel did not obey Me.
O Israel, if you would listen to Me!

Which of course takes us back to a people that Jesus talked to while in the flesh, and John recorded the conversation as noted above (Jn 5:39), and father above with the "born again" conversation with Nicodemus.

Nicodemus was such a religious person who was dedicated to God and considered himself a wise teacher of the law, but he was not really that at all, because he did not listen to the sound of the wind (the Holy Spirit) So in this thread I have pointed out:

Jn 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

And I have testified about hearing from the Lord.

Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

That doesn't mean it is accepted.

It is written that they will all be taught of God, but that does not mean you read and study the Bible (thought you will). It means you actually hear Him, the Teacher, talking to you and teaching you. He tells you things which since you have heard you can pass on, and will. Things like:

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

You hear Him speak to you, teach you, and understand that the Bible is correct in pointing you to listen to Him, the Teacher. Doing so makes you His disciple! So if someone comes saying that it is the baptism and not the hearing the sound of the wind which make a person His disciple you can see they don't match up with Him and the Bible. They have put their faith in baptism and not in Him. Yeah - He will talk to you and get you to make a commitment, and yes He will talk to you and immerse you in His Holy Spirit, but you were saved by that faith that comes from hearing Him and believing it is Him. Just like Abram was counted as righteous because he heard the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ) talking to him and believed Him to be the Lord, so too are we saved because we do the same thing Abram does. We listen to Him!! We are His disciples! And you know what; I got baptized as a commitment to Him, and I have been immersed in the Spirit and with that fire that came when I was given the gift of tongues. That was weird, and it still is weird when that fire (it literally feels like fire on my chest) when the Holy Spirit comes on me like that. Yet first came the voice which I believed was the Lord God!

Jn 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

 

[theefaith]

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

 

[Cassandra]

Acts 16:31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house"

 

[Karl Peters]

Jn 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

Actually it reads:
Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were)

Of course it is talking about water baptism and Jesus is still baptizing - although not Jesus Himself but His disciples - but I am not sure what your point is?