We really need to pay close attention to James’ warnings!

[ATP]

If we can lose our salvation, then why did John see his name written on the wall in the New Jerusalem? Rev 21:14 NIV

 

[H. Richard]

If all the proofs vs. OSAS were posted at once, the system would crash!

James was writing to Jewish believers whose salvation was in doubt.

And the best of what he has to offer is an old fav of mine,
and should be an old fav of everyone who loves Jesus, but alas 'tis not …

James 1:12-16, NKJV
"Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren."

Yes, I may need to post proof again that "the crown of life" IS eternal life!
So, any offers (of requiring proof)?
Meanwhile, how much overcoming of sin is required for one to finally
be approved unto eternal life ... Oh, how about a whole life-time?
Yes, approximately 10 other verses agree that this is what is required! (These are not listed below)

James 1:21-22, NKJV
“Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness (from your past life),
and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.”

But, Lord, some people think they are justified and saved when they first receive the Holy Spirit.

James 2:24
“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”

James 5:19-20, NKJV
“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth,
and someone turns him back,
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”

Now, let’s see … does the Lord kill the brethren who wander from the Truth?
No, don’t think so … never seen nor heard of that.
Oh, my, could it be that we’re talking here about eternal death (once again)?

Yes, it’s the same old story …
We must remain in the faith until death to finally receive eternal life
… because salvation is a life-long process.

As James 1:1 states, James was writing to Jewish believers; those Jews who had placed their belief in Jesus as their Messiah and King. No where can you find where Jesus, or the 12, told the Jews they were no longer under the Law of Moses. In other words he was under the law. For a Jew, under the law, to not do the works of the law would show no faith in doing the works God commanded them to do under the law and that is why James said without works faith is dead. The book of James was not written to those under grace where faith in the shed blood on the cross is the way to be saved.

 

[H. Richard]

The Gospel itself is proof against OSAS.
Every word that Jesus ever spoke is proof.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could ever believe in OSAS...

That is because you do not separate law from grace. Jesus and the 12 were under the Jewish Law of Moses therefore they did not teach grace. God has set both the Jews and the Law of Moses aside and is now reaching out to the world with a gospel of grace where He, God, has done all the work required for a person to be save. All mankind has to do is place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in it. Paul was sent with the gospel of grace.

 

[Barrd]

That is because you do not separate law from grace. Jesus and the 12 were under the Jewish Law of Moses therefore they did not teach grace. God has set both the Jews and the Law of Moses aside and is now reaching out to the world with a gospel of grace where He, God, has done all the work required for a person to be save. All mankind has to do is place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in it. Paul was sent with the gospel of grace.

So, you think that Jesus spent three and a half years, teaching His Apostles to obey the law, as He did Himself, telling them, when He left them, to continue to go into all nations and teach others all that He had taught them....
And then, a few years later, He goes and gets this new guy, and sends him in with a completely different message?

Uh, no. Paul never teaches that we need not obey the law. On the contrary, Paul not only teaches us that we are to obey the law, but Paul, himself, keeps the law.

Let me clarify, here...I am not talking about the law of Moses.
I am talking about the Law of God...namely, the Ten Commandments.

 

[tom55]

The Gospel itself is proof against OSAS.
Every word that Jesus ever spoke is proof.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could ever believe in OSAS...

You, the barrd, gave me some good advise once. Take your own advise: Put them on your ignore list! :) OSAS is not logical or biblical and I believe that the ones who are promoting that belief on this forum are attempting to fracture Christianity more than it already has been. Pray for them! That they may see the errors of their way!

 

[Barrd]

You, the barrd, gave me some good advise once. Take your own advise: Put them on your ignore list! :) OSAS is not logical or biblical and I believe that the ones who are promoting that belief on this forum are attempting to fracture Christianity more than it already has been. Pray for them! That they may see the errors of their way!

And that, ya big lug, is exactly why I do love you.
You are right, I need to take my own good advice.
Now, why did I not see this for myself?

 

[Zachary]

Jesus and the 12 were under the Jewish Law of Moses therefore they did not teach grace. God has set both the Jews and the Law of Moses aside and is now reaching out to the world with a gospel of grace where He, God, has done all the work required for a person to be save. All mankind has to do is place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in it. Paul was sent with the gospel of grace.

The very beginning of God's grace was that ANYONE could be saved from hell.
Hence the basic gospel (good news) was preached to everyone.

But, Jesus did not preach/teach a deeper understanding of grace, etc.
simply because no one had yet received the Holy Spirit INSIDE
(let alone UPON which is the anointing of the baptism with the Holy Spirit).
To say they had any spiritual understanding of anything is an understatement.
Jesus taught Paul to teach these things to those who had the Spirit.

 

[OzSpen]

You, the barrd, gave me some good advise once. Take your own advise: Put them on your ignore list! :) OSAS is not logical or biblical and I believe that the ones who are promoting that belief on this forum are attempting to fracture Christianity more than it already has been. Pray for them! That they may see the errors of their way!

Tom,

Oxford dictionaries gives the meaning of 'forum' as, 'A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged' (Oxford dictionaries 2015. S v forum). Therefore, this Christian forum is a place where ideas and views on OSAS should be able to be exchanged.

I urge you not to close down discussion with this kind of emphasis. I do not support OSAS, but I do believe this is a place for interaction on the topic. If we don't agree with OSAS, it's time for us to provide the evidence to refute it in our discussions - interactions that are courteous and patient.

It's too late to tell us that the teaching of OSAS in the 21st century is attempting to fracture Christianity more than it is. There are many issues that lead to differences of theology in Christianity. OSAS goes way back to the early church fathers, especially with Augustine of Hippo.

Oz

 

[H. Richard]

So, you think that Jesus spent three and a half years, teaching His Apostles to obey the law, as He did Himself, telling them, when He left them, to continue to go into all nations and teach others all that He had taught them....
And then, a few years later, He goes and gets this new guy, and sends him in with a completely different message?

Uh, no. Paul never teaches that we need not obey the law. On the contrary, Paul not only teaches us that we are to obey the law, but Paul, himself, keeps the law.

Let me clarify, here...I am not talking about the law of Moses.
I am talking about the Law of God...namely, the Ten Commandments.

Jesus said, by His own words, that He came to the nation of Israel to fulfill all the promises to the Jewish nation. I am amazed that no one wants to Believe him.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Verse 6 shows who Jesus came to. The Gentiles were never promised a kingdom.

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)

Verse 24 plainly says, By Jesus' own words, that He was not sent to anyone except the Nation of Israel. --- Why can't people accept what Jesus said?

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Paul says that Jesus ministered to the Jews to fulfill the promises made to the nation of Israel. Why do people refuse to see this?

If the nation of Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah and King the 12 were to go into the rest of the world teaching about Jesus, their King. But how could they convince the Gentiles when they could not even convince the Jews.

As for your saying we are still under law I see it differently.
Gal 2:16
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; -----------------------for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
NKJV

Gal 3:9-11
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The Law Brings a Curse 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
NKJV