What about Hell ?

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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you can't quote it a single time from the Lex though, hmm.

Ah, here it is, one time, in all of Scripture. No witness, iow. Hmm.


we must understand that the old testament was written in Hebrew and the Hebrew word Sheol was a place where the righteous and unrighteous
went when they died.When the old testament began to be translated into Greek Sheol was translated Hades and in our time when the Bible started to be translated into English both Sheol and Hades were translated as Hell, but when the word Hell first started being used in 1600-1800s it meant to cover over or put in a dark place.When the word started having the definition of a fiery torment place many Bibles started to use a different word than Hell.
 

Taken

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I don't agree. The Bible says there is going to be a resurrection of righteous (saved) and unrighteous(unsaved) on the last day.So I don't believe anyone has been moved anywhere, the last day isn't here yet.The Bible makes it clear that those who are righteous and deserve to go to heaven are resurrected to heaven so if you're saying the saved have been moved to heaven you are saying they have been resurrected to heaven and like I said I don't believe the last day is here yet it's future

I consider the body, the soul, the spirit, that has become crucified, restored/saved, quickened/born again.

Saying; men who are SAVED, that are physically dead, are bodily buried in the earth, waiting to be bodily resurrected; their saved souls, quickened spirits are in heaven.

God Bless,
Taken
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I consider the body, the soul, the spirit, that has become crucified, restored/saved, quickened/born again.

Saying; men who are SAVED, that are physically dead, are bodily buried in the earth, waiting to be bodily resurrected; their saved souls, quickened spirits are in heaven.

God Bless,
Taken

I don't believe that I have a Soul but instead that I am A Soul, so when I die I believe I will be in God's memory if he has judged me worthy of a resurrection. On the last day when the resurrection begins God will bodily resurrect me
 
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Taken

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I don't believe that I have a Soul but instead that I am A Soul, so when I die I believe I will be in God's memory if he has judged me worthy of a resurrection. On the last day when the resurrection begins God will bodily resurrect me

Okay. So, you didn't mention.
Do you believe your soul physically dies and is buried in a grave?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Okay. So, you didn't mention.
Do you believe your soul physically dies and is buried in a grave?

when I see the word Soul in the Bible I don't see any scripture that is talking about something that is inside me that separates at death. When I see the word Soul in scripture what I see is that the scripture is talking about that flesh and blood person or the life of that flesh and blood person is enjoying. So yes when this flesh and blood person who is me dies I am buried.The words Sheol, Hades, Hell are just symbolic words to me which means that if God has judged me worthy of a resurrection then I will remain in God's memory until the last day when he will bodily resurrect me.
 
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Harvest 1874

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I don't agree. The Bible says there is going to be a resurrection of righteous (saved) and unrighteous(unsaved) on the last day.So I don't believe anyone has been moved anywhere, the last day isn't here yet.The Bible makes it clear that those who are righteous and deserve to go to heaven are resurrected to heaven so if you're saying the saved have been moved to heaven you are saying they have been resurrected to heaven and like I said I don't believe the last day is here yet it's future

This is a common fallacy taught by the professing church, you hear it all the time from the “blind guides” of Christendom, i.e. you go to church on Sunday and the preacher teaches about the resurrection in the last days, and then on Tuesday while giving a eulogy (so as to appease the deceased loved ones) the preacher lies and says the dearly departed have gone on to a better place, that they are with the Lord now. It is little wonder that there are so many skeptics of the Bible.

The deceased are not in a better place, they are in "hell", Sheol, the pit, the grave, the covered place, there they will remain until the resurrection as spoken of by or Lord, the prophet Daniel and the Apostle Paul.

Everyone who dies goes to hell, the only exception being those who die in Christ (presently) such UPON DEATH are immediately translated in the twinkling of an eye to their spirit bodies and brought into the presence of the Lord.

Those who erroneously believe that they are somehow going to be mysteriously rapture away without first dying deceive themselves. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom (that is the spiritual phase of the kingdom), the Lord's word is, "Be thou faithful UNTIL DEATH, and you will receive the crown of life." Rev 2:10

Those (spirit begotten) who fell to make their calling and election sure must await in (hell, sheol, i.e. "sleep in Christ") until the completion of the body of Christ, the Church, before they will experience their resurrection. Theirs too will be a spiritual birth (howbeit on a much lower level) for although they felled to fulfill their covenant of (willing) sacrifice, they nevertheless have not denied their Lord and as such the Lord will bring them through great tribulation so that they may be buffeted by the Adversary, that is so that they may (die) to the flesh which they felled to willingly sacrifice that the spirit (the new creature) in them may be saved in the Day of the Lord.

The rest of mankind will follow some time later coming up through the resurrection of Judgement, they will take their part in the Earthly phase of the kingdom.
 

Taken

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when I see the word Soul in the Bible I don't see any scripture that is talking about something that is inside me that separates at death. When I see the word Soul in scripture what I see is that the scripture is talking about that flesh and blood person or the life of that flesh and blood person is enjoying. So yes when this flesh and blood person who is me dies I am buried.The words Sheol, Hades, Hell are just symbolic words to me which means that if God has judged me worthy of a resurrection then I will remain in God's memory until the last day when he will bodily resurrect me.

You are avoiding the question.
Try yes or no answers.

Do you believe when your body dies it shall return to dust?

Do you believe your soul will die and turn to dust?

God Bless,
Taken
 

Harvest 1874

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You are avoiding the question.
Try yes or no answers.

Do you believe when your body dies it shall return to dust?

Do you believe your soul will die and turn to dust?

God Bless,
Taken

When your body dies it returns to the dust, at that moment the soul (the living being) ceases to exist.
A soul is not composed of matter so it can't turn to dust.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You are avoiding the question.
Try yes or no answers.

Do you believe when your body dies it shall return to dust?

Do you believe your soul will die and turn to dust?

God Bless,
Taken


Didn't God tell Adam that because of his disobedience that he would go back to the dust because dust he was? When God used the word, "you" in that scripture in Genesis chapter 3 regarding Adam when talking to him about when he would die doesn't that mean God was talking to that whole person and not just part of that person? So I'm saying doesn't that scripture say the Soul goes back to the dust?
 

Taken

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Didn't God tell Adam that because of his disobedience that he would go back to the dust because dust he was? When God used the word, "you" in that scripture in Genesis chapter 3 regarding Adam when talking to him about when he would die doesn't that mean God was talking to that whole person and not just part of that person? So I'm saying doesn't that scripture say the Soul goes back to the dust?

No.
It says the body came from dust and shall return to dust.

Nothing says the soul came from dust or that it shall return to dust.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Doesn't the Bible say the Soul that is sinning dies?

The Bible says God "created" and "formed" man from dust.

The Bible says what God "made" man was a Living soul.

The Bible says the "Creatures" life is it's blood.

The "creature" is "made" alive when it has a living soul IN the creature.

The Living creature, is "dead" to God, when it is born. It is physically alive, but "dead" to God.

What is Dead TO God, is that which is "SEPARATED" FROM God.

Natural born men ARE "dead to God", and why a "REBIRTH" is ALIVE TO and IN Christ,
Effected BY the natural man, receiving Gods incorruptable SEED.
 

Harvest 1874

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The Bible says God "created" and "formed" man from dust.

The Bible says what God "made" man was a Living soul.

The Bible says the "Creatures" life is it's blood.

The "creature" is "made" alive when it has a living soul IN the creature.

The Living creature, is "dead" to God, when it is born. It is physically alive, but "dead" to God.

What is Dead TO God, is that which is "SEPARATED" FROM God.

Natural born men ARE "dead to God", and why a "REBIRTH" is ALIVE TO and IN Christ,
Effected BY the natural man, receiving Gods incorruptable SEED.

Please state the specific scripture where it is stated that God put a soul IN the creature, i.e. in a man, an animal or anything.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The Bible says God "created" and "formed" man from dust.

The Bible says what God "made" man was a Living soul.

The Bible says the "Creatures" life is it's blood.

The "creature" is "made" alive when it has a living soul IN the creature.

The Living creature, is "dead" to God, when it is born. It is physically alive, but "dead" to God.

What is Dead TO God, is that which is "SEPARATED" FROM God.

Natural born men ARE "dead to God", and why a "REBIRTH" is ALIVE TO and IN Christ,
Effected BY the natural man, receiving Gods incorruptable SEED.

And God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul. This scripture shows that man came to be a living Soul not that he was given a soul.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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No.
It says the body came from dust and shall return to dust.

Nothing says the soul came from dust or that it shall return to dust.

God Bless,
Taken


Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou (you) return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou (you) taken: for dust thou (you) art, and unto dust shalt thou (you) return. This is the KJV Bible and I don't see where God is separating Adam into a body and Soul. When you Talk about the Soul you're talking about the body. You can never exclude the Body when talking about the Soul The word Soul is talking about an oxygen breathing creature whether Man or animal
 

Taken

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Please state the specific scripture where it is stated that God put a soul IN the creature, i.e. in a man, an animal or anything.

Gen 2:7
...the LORD God...
Breathed "INTO" his nostrils the "Breath of Life"

A SOUL, IS MADE BY God. And HAS Gods LIFE in it.

A LIVING SOUL, IN a man, the "man" is Living.

A LIVING SOUL, OUT of a man, the "man",
(Formed body) IS physically dead.

A body and soul, are called by the SAME identity. (Name).

A body IS the mans. It's form comes from Dust. It's Life is it's Blood. It comes into a LIVING State, when God gives the body Life.

God gives the body LIFE (Gods life, ie His Breath), via a SOUL with Gods Life in the SOUL)

God IS Life.
All souls are MADE BY God.
All souls BELONG to God.
All Living souls IN a body, the body is Living.
All Living souls DEPARTED out of the body,
The body is physically dead.
The departed Living Soul, continues Living, (until such time God departs His Life out of the soul).

God Bless,
Taken
 

Harvest 1874

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Gen 2:7
...the LORD God...
Breathed "INTO" his nostrils the "Breath of Life"

A SOUL, IS MADE BY God. And HAS Gods LIFE in it.

A LIVING SOUL, IN a man, the "man" is Living.

A LIVING SOUL, OUT of a man, the "man",
(Formed body) IS physically dead.

A body and soul, are called by the SAME identity. (Name).

A body IS the mans. It's form comes from Dust. It's Life is it's Blood. It comes into a LIVING State, when God gives the body Life.

God gives the body LIFE (Gods life, ie His Breath), via a SOUL with Gods Life in the SOUL)

God IS Life.
All souls are MADE BY God.
All souls BELONG to God.
All Living souls IN a body, the body is Living.
All Living souls DEPARTED out of the body,
The body is physically dead.
The departed Living Soul, continues Living, (until such time God departs His Life out of the soul).

God Bless,
Taken

Sorry but as Barney stated the "breath of life" is not the soul, it is simply the power of life which comes from the source of all life.

One more time let us walk through this, the scriptures are quite clear on the issue of the soul, i.e. what it is, and what it consist of. Gen 2:7, with Strong’s numbers added.

And the LORD <3068> God <430> formed <3335> man <120> [of] the dust <6083> of <4480> the ground <127>, and breathed <5301> into his nostrils <639> the breath <5397> of life <2416>; and man <120> became a living <2416> soul <5315>”

This scripture shows quite clearly that there are TWO elements necessary to the composition of a living soul or sentient being:

1) First we have the organism or body, which the Word of the Lord states He formed of dust from the ground (soil, earth),

2) And secondly He breathed into the nostrils of that formed organism the spirit of life, called the "breath of life," Once these two elements were joined, and only then did the man BECOME a living soul (or individual).

“This is very simple, and easily understood. It shows that the body (or organism) is not the soul, nor is the spirit or breath of life the soul; but that when these two were united by the Lord, the resultant quality or condition was a living man, a living being or soul, possessed of perceptive powers.” There is nothing mysterious or complicated about this to one who uses his God given ability to reason things out.

And so it is written, the first man Adam WAS MADE a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.” 1 Cor 15:45

This scripture also, clearly states that the first man WAS MADE or BECAME a living soul, no mention is made of a soul (some sort of separate entity) being placed into the man.

The confusion with many, seems to be that some have misinterpreted the “breath of life” as representing the [soul] that was communicated to man, however you need to read Genesis 2:7 over and over again several times, to get the proper thought.

The “breath of life” was infused into the lifeless form of dust, and the two united produced a living sentient being, a living SOUL.

Let us now break it down and examine some of the words and their particular meanings as they are used in our text of scripture.

And the Lord God formed (“yatsar” Strong’s # 3335, fashion, framed, as a potter with clay)

MAN (“adam” Strong’s # 120, a human being, an individual)

Of the DUST (“aphar” Strong’s # 6083, clay, earth, mud, mortar)

Of the GROUND (“adamah” Strong’s # 127, soil [from its general redness], earth)

And breathed into his nostrils (“naphach” Strong’s # 5301, inflate, kindle, [impart, communicate], breath)

The breath (“neshamah” Strong’s # 5397, a puff, i.e. wind, vital breath, spirit)

Of LIFE (“caiyah” Strong’s # 2416, alive, a living thing, creature, and from Strong’s # 2421, to live, life, quicken, and from Strong’s # 7307, “ruach”, wind; by resemblance, breath, figuratively, life)

Note that the Hebrew word here is used in the masculine sense, and is thus PLURAL, i.e. the “breath of lives”, the same breath common to every living creature, as is noted in the following, (Eccl. 3: 21)

"Who knows [who can prove] that the spirit [ruach-- spirit of life] of man goes upward and that the spirit [ruach--spirit of life] of the beast goes downward to the earth?"

Solomon's answers his own question in the preceding verses, saying: "That which befalls the sons of men [death] befalls beasts; even one [the same] thing befalls them: as the one dies so dies the other; yea they have all one breath [ruach--spirit of life, breath of life]; so that a man hath no pre-eminence above a beast"

(Also compare Gen 6:17; 7:15, 22, 23)

The difference between Adam and the other creatures is not in the breath, or spirit of lives. Man has the same kind of spirit of life. However, the difference is in that man has a finer organism.

And man became (“The New Oxford American Dictionary”, a past participle of become, begin to be, turn into. “Made”, made to be, formed in a particular place or by a particular process)

A living soul ( “nephesh” Strong’s # 5315, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental), a person or individual, self) And as we had previously stated in another post (under the thread “Our Soul”), the term “living soul” as used in the Hebrew language, applies equally well to the lower animal creation as well, as can readily be seen by a careful examination of several texts found in Genesis (Gen 1:21,30; 2:19; 9:3,4,9,10)

Note that this scripture clearly states, that man BECAME a living soul, NOT that man was given a soul, the thing that was given or imparted to man was the “breath or spirit of life” the SAME, which is given to all the lower creation.

The spirit of God (i.e. the invisible influence or power) hath made me (formed me), and the breath (or “spirit”) of the Almighty hath given me life.” (Job 33:4)

Literally speaking, Job had the “spark of life”, which came from the Life Giver Himself, God, imparted to him through his parents at conception, this was the beginning of the creature, and upon birth, God breathed into his nostrils the “breath of life” and he became a living soul.

First you have the creation of the organism, “Thy hands (power) have made me, and fashioned me together roundabout; thou has made me as the clay.” Job 10:8, 9 and secondly upon birth you have infusion of “wind”, “breath of life, thus we have a soul.
 

Taken

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And God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul. This scripture shows that man came to be a living Soul not that he was given a soul.

A man has an identity (name).
A man has his own life (blood).
A mans life is brought into living (mans blood),
Via Gods Life.
God IS Life. Vessels He imparts LIFE into, the vessel becomes Living.

God created and formed (vessels) from Dust.
God makes SOULS (vessels).

God IMPARTS a vessel (soul) with His Life in it............INTO a vessel (man)....and the man becomes ALIVE, with His own life (Blood).

When the vessel (man), becomes physically DEAD, the mans BLOOD (life) is DEAD.

Gods LIFE in the vessel (soul), is a living soul, that departs the DEAD BODY.

The mans dead body (vessel), called by the mans identity (NAME), returns to the ground, returns to dust.

The dead body (vessel), IS still called by the mans NAME. That vessel (body) WAITS to be resurrected, TO "as" it was, or TO "a" glorious body.

The Living Soul (vessel), departs out of the dead body, and IS STILL called by the mans NAME.

The Living Soul (vessel) with Life IN IT, waits WITH GOD, or SEPARATED FROM GOD, WAITING FOR Judgement.

If the Living soul (vessel) IS WITH GOD, it shall retain its LIVING state for ever, and once again Be imparted INTO it's Glorious Body.

If the Living soul (vessel) IS SEPARATED from God, it shall Have Life from God, Departed out of the vessel (soul) and Both the body and soul (without Life), shall be destroyed.

Two vessels, One created from Dust, One made by God. Both vessels, body & soul, given the ONE same NAME.
Each vessel with Life...
The Bodys life is Blood.
The Souls life is Gods Breath.

ALL blood life, SHALL Die.
Some souls SHALL Die.
Some souls SHALL live forever.
Some bodies SHALL be glorified and live forever.
Some bodies SHALL be destroyed thus, NOT live forever.

Gen 5:1
....which God CREATED and MADE..

Gen 5:2
...God "created" man....in the likeness of God
"MADE" he (God) him (man)

Gen 5:1
..MALE and FEMALE, Created he (God) them, and called their NAME Adam.

Man BODY is "CREATED" from Dust.
Man Body, is "MADE" in Gods likeness via a "LIVING SOUL".

Man WITH a living soul "IN" the body, "IS" in Gods "likeness".

Man WITHOUT a living soul "IN" the body, "IS DEAD", and NOT in Gods Likeness.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Sorry but as Barney stated the "breath of life" is not the soul, it is simply the power of life which comes from the source of all life.

No need to be sorry.

I do not believe the BODY and SOUL are the same things, or come from the same place, nor are the same life.

This scripture shows quite clearly that there are TWO elements necessary to the composition of a living soul or sentient being:

1) First we have the organism or body, which the Word of the Lord states He formed of dust from the ground (soil, earth),

2) And secondly He breathed into the nostrils of that formed organism the spirit of life, called the "breath of life," Once these two elements were joined, and only then did the man BECOME a living soul (or individual).

Already expressed the same, but did not say "joined".

“This is very simple, and easily understood. It shows that the body (or organism) is not the soul, nor is the spirit or breath of life the soul;

Already expressed the same.

but that when these two were united by the Lord, the resultant quality or condition was a living man, a living being or soul, possessed of perceptive powers.” There is nothing mysterious or complicated about this to one who uses his God given ability to reason things out.

You say, joined. You say, united. I simply say one thing is "imparted". And the one thing (living soul) "imparted", bring the other thing (body) into a living (blood) state of existence.

The Body dies, its blood life, its blood dead, and the Living thing, ie the Living soul, "departs" the dead body.

And so it is written, the first man Adam WAS MADE a living soul;

ALready acknowledge, the man was MADE LIVING, via a Living soul.

ALready acknowledge, the man BODY, is called by the same NAME, and the Living soul imparted into the mans BODY.

Is the Dead BODY, still called Living? No.
Is the Dead BODY, still called by the mans Name? Yes

Is the LIVING SOUL, still Living, after it departs the dead body? Yes
Is the LIVING SOUL, still called by the mans Name? Yes

Are physically DEAD body's WITH God?
No.
Are they DEAD to God? Yes.
Are they DEAD to men? Yes.

Are crucified DEAD body's Crucified WITH Christ DEAD? Yes.
Are they DEAD to God? Yes.
Are they ALSO Alive to God? Yes.
WHY? Because they have been washed, sacncitifed, and are kept with Chirst, until they are raised and glorified.
Meanwhile, they ARE ALIVE IN CHRIST.

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit
.” 1 Cor 15:45

Irrelevant to this conversation about the body and soul of man.

scripture also, clearly states that the first man WAS MADE or BECAME a living soul, no mention is made of a soul (some sort of separate entity) being placed into the man.

Already addressed. A body and A soul are not the same thing, but are called by ONE same identity, ie A NAME.

All body's are mortal and SHALL DIE.
All soul's SHALL not be destroyed.

The confusion with many, seems to be that some have misinterpreted the “breath of life” as representing the [soul] that was communicated to man, however you need to read Genesis 2:7 over and over again several times, to get the proper thought.

Disagree.
God creates things, vessels.
God makes the things, come ALIVE, via His LIFE.


The “breath of life” was infused into the lifeless form of dust, and the two united produced a living sentient being, a living SOUL.

You say 'joined' "infused" "united".
I say "imparted" and "departed".
I say; the body has an identity.
I say; the body that has received an Imparted soul; that soul is also called by the same identity; ie NAME, as the Body.

Whether the body is living or dead; it has a Name.
Whether the living soul is IMPARTED into or Departed out of the body; it has the Same Name as the Body.

Life of man, (blood) dies.
Life of God, never dies.
Living souls departed out of body's are dead body's.
Living souls departed out of dead body's are still Living souls.

A Living soul IMPARTED into a body,
Bring the body's life (blood) into living.

A Living soul DEPARTED out of a body,
The body's life, (blood) dies, and the body is called Dead.

If the Departed Living soul....is WITH God, it is called Saved UNTO God.

If the Departed Living soul....is SEPARATED From God, it is called Dead unto God.

ANYTHING separated from God, whether or not it is "ALIVE", is called Dead to God.

ANYTHING WITH God, whether or not it is Living, is called ALIVE "IN CHRIST".

God Bless,
Taken
 
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