What are God's laws now for?

[veteran]

Our enemies? The USA is just another Nation following in the steps of Sodom. Should we fight for Sodom? We would be fighting against God.

You don't realize how wrong you are in looking at the USA in that way; same with any of the western Christian nations. Just because Christ's enemies have crept in and God has allowed it for His greater Purpose doesn't mean we are not still His people.

It was for ALL situations. Give mercy, get mercy from God.

"All those who take the sword will perish with the sword."

Even for Christ's disciples when He told them to go buy a sword in Luke 22:36? Was their sword for show only, or cutting bushes, etc.?

Where do you find rights for Christians in the NT? Certainly not in the Sermon on the Mount.

God is Who gives rights to us, and that's what our U.S. founding documents are about, recognizing God as the Giver of rights, not the state. They originate from God's Word and His law. Luke 22:36 about the sword is one of those rights, as Christ showed there. It's why the U.S. Constitution includes the 2nd Amendment declaring the right of citizens to bear arms to protect themselves, their family, and their nation.

Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

ALL THE LAW is fulfilled by love. Christians are not to do harm to anyone for any reason.

Not what Paul said in Gal.5:14. The idea is all the law is consumate, filled, rendered, realized, in the Lev.19 commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself. The word "fulfilled" in the Greek doesn't mean 'obsolete'. The Old Covenant is what was made obsolete, not all of God's laws, which that commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself from Lev.19 is from God's laws.

By 'punish' you mean kill? Perhaps there are some here but Christians don't kill others.

The commandment as written in the KJV 'thou shalt not kill' is about 'murder'. Thou shalt not MURDER. Killing in war, or of a murderer of the first degree is a different matter. God covered that, as Christ did too when He told His disciples to go buy a sword in Luke 22:36.

I don't. I love sinners.

So The LORD's Righteous decrees should be secondary, so as to allow a sinner to murder and get away with it?

Didn't you know? Those "in the office of administering the law" are quite often "the wicked".

So that's reason to do away with all systems of the law today?

Christians are not under THE LAW of Moses even though you are trying to mix Law and Grace, it won't work. It's much better to be under Grace. There is NEVER a valid excuse for Christians to resort violence against anyone else. Mercy is much better.

John 1:17 (NKJV)
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

I'm not mixing law with Grace. I'm showing you the NT Christian Doctrine regarding God's laws like our Lord Jesus, and His Apostles taught. Paul said the law is good, if a man use it lawfully (1 Tim.1:8). Paul showed what the law was made for; for the unrighteous and unholy and profane, murderers, whoremongers, liars, perjury, etc., per 1 Timothy 1.

That John 1:17 verse was given about Christ coming in the flesh to offer us His Salvation...

John 1:14-17
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of Him, and cried, saying, This was He of Whom I spake, He That cometh after me is preferred before me: for He was before me.
16 And of His fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus fulfilled what God's law could never do, the promise of Eternal Life through believing on His shed blood on the cross. That's the difference. That never meant the destruction of God's laws, but the fulfilling of an operation that God's laws was never meant to do, nor can do. This is why Paul taught in Eph.2 and Col.2 just what parts of God's laws were fulfilled upon Christ's cross, the commandments given in ordinances. That's a different portion than God's moral law, and laws that govern this earth and society.

 

[Duckybill]

Can you show me even one instance in the NT where a Christian used violence? Even one?

Matthew 5:39-45 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

These commands are not requests. And you won't find any 'rights' therein.

 

[veteran]

Can you show me even one instance in the NT where a Christian used violence? Even one?

Matthew 5:39-45 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

These commands are not requests. And you won't find any 'rights' therein.

I'll do better than that. Here's our Lord Jesus...

John 2:13-16
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when He had made a scourge of small cords, He drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, "Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."
(KJV)

Might want to look up what that "scourge of small cords" means that our Lord Jesus used in driving those carpetbaggers out of His temple.

 

[Duckybill]

I'll do better than that. Here's our Lord Jesus...

John 2:13-16
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when He had made a scourge of small cords, He drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, "Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."
(KJV)

Might want to look up what that "scourge of small cords" means that our Lord Jesus used in driving those carpetbaggers out of His temple.

But you promote killing the wicked. How is that even similar at all?

 

[veteran]

But you promote killing the wicked. How is that even similar at all?

It well answered your question in your previous post though, didn't it? Your confusing the idea of violence even with acts of righteous indignation, like what our Lord Jesus did with that "scourge of small cords" (a whip with small cord ends on it) to drive out those commericialists that were profaning His House.

 

[Duckybill]

It well answered your question in your previous post though, didn't it? Your confusing the idea of violence even with acts of righteous indignation, like what our Lord Jesus did with that "scourge of small cords" (a whip with small cord ends on it) to drive out those commericialists that were profaning His House.

Which has nothing to do with executing sinners. We have no right to kill anyone. If we live by THE LAW we are fallen from Grace and do not have Christian salvation.

 

[NicholasMarks]

As far as the Laws of Almighty God are concerned...they appear to follow a stepping stone pattern, which leads, ultimately, to a truth, as yet, beyond our understanding. The Jews got the laws of Moses which were a simplified set of very, serious laws, to appeal to their intellectual level of advancement of that period.

Jesus taught the same laws but in a much more refined and detailed way. The next step will be the absolute truth and this will be another reiteration of Jesus' teaching, dressed against modern science...and no one will deny that Jesus Christ, in his day, had full knowledge of a most profound and wonderful teaching, which will deliver, exactly, what he told us it will.

 

[veteran]

Which has nothing to do with executing sinners. We have no right to kill anyone. If we live by THE LAW we are fallen from Grace and do not have Christian salvation.

Per Gen.49:10, God showed through Jacob that the tribe of Judah would retain the office as "law giver". Explain that please.

 

[Duckybill]

Per Gen.49:10, God showed through Jacob that the tribe of Judah would retain the office as "law giver". Explain that please.

I'm too busy studying the NT.

Matthew 5:7 (NKJV)
7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.

Matthew 5:39-44 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Romans 12:19-21 (NKJV)
19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20 Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

1 Peter 2:19-23 (NKJV)
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth"; 23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously;

 

[veteran]

I'm too busy studying the NT.

Which is why you are still Biblically ignorant on many things in God's Word, and follow men's traditions instead. If you'd study all your Bible, you'd would better understand the times.

 

[Duckybill]

Which is why you are still Biblically ignorant on many things in God's Word, and follow men's traditions instead. If you'd study all your Bible, you'd would better understand the times.

I suggest that you stick with the NT. You'll be MUCH better off in the end.

"Blessed are the merciful. They shall receive mercy."

 

[veteran]

I suggest that you stick with the NT. You'll be MUCH better off in the end.

"Blessed are the merciful. They shall receive mercy."

I will stick with ALL of God's Word, and not just the parts that sound smooth because of being weak in the Faith.

 

[Duckybill]

I will stick with ALL of God's Word, and not just the parts that sound smooth because of being weak in the Faith.

All of it? You mean executing homosexuals and adulterers too?

 

[veteran]

All of it? You mean executing homosexuals and adulterers too?

What condemnation did Apostle Paul apply to adulterers and homosexuals? That's your answer.

And by the way, not every case of adultery per God's law was punishable by the death penalty. And our Lord Jesus was pointing to it when He bent down and wrote in the dirt with the woman adulteress the Jews had caught.

 

[Duckybill]

What condemnation did Apostle Paul apply to adulterers and homosexuals? That's your answer.

Are you saying you don't know?

And by the way, not every case of adultery per God's law was punishable by the death penalty. And our Lord Jesus was pointing to it when He bent down and wrote in the dirt with the woman adulteress the Jews had caught.

You really need to figure out which Covenant you are under. Can't be both. Do you even know?

 

[veteran]

Are you saying you don't know?

You really need to figure out which Covenant you are under. Can't be both. Do you even know?

If you knew what you were talking about, you would have already looked up the answer for yourself.

Your last statement is a false accusation.

 

[Duckybill]

If you knew what you were talking about, you would have already looked up the answer for yourself.

Your last statement is a false accusation.

Why are you preaching the Law of Moses???

 

[Duckybill]

Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 

[veteran]

Why are you preaching the Law of Moses???

You mean, why did Paul preach God's laws? like these verses??


Gal 5:18-21
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

1 Tim 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
(KJV)

Why would Apostle Paul teach such things per The New Covenant, if all of God's laws are now done away with by Christ?

Why are you wrongly taught to see Paul's preaching there as an Old Covenant doctrine?? Who is bewitching you?

 

[Duckybill]

You mean, why did Paul preach God's laws? like these verses??

Gal 5:18-21
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Yep.